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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The leagues/clubs would be asked to police this activities with resources that cost money (security) plus a lot more, infrastructure etc. I think CPL isn’t included for real reasons.
    To simply put it, if the CFL can not play in front of fans in 2020 they will not be playing in 2020. Plus with it be the off-season, the logistics of bringing in all the American players, which is essentially half your roster plus all those that you cut during the pre-season will make it a tough task to pull off. Non-essential travel between countries will be one the last thing to come back. So many moving parts here.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    And...Ontario changes the guidelines

    https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ontario-pr...ties-1.4930649
    That CTV article seems quite vague. At least for the Raptors, "opening the training facilities" means only one player at a time in the building, and one coach or trainer, no close interaction between them, and with disinfection of balls / equipment / surfaces in-between players. Locker rooms, fitness rooms, showers and offices all closed. In that situation, many players would probably just as well want to work out at home, with a trainer watching them over video.

    https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...next-week.html

    If TFC is training outside, it's lower risk, but it's still likely going to be strongly controlled, with no interaction between players.

    Which I think is good. I agree with Red CB, way more testing capacity is needed for this to go further. In Germany they still have some problems and huge debates about the Bundesliga reopening. That's despite the fact that Germany has the capacity to do 850,000 tests per week, yet normally uses less than half that capacity. There it's easy to say that the Bundesliga can pay for extra testing for the players & staff w/o affecting anyone else. In the US and Canada, that's much harder to say.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 05-08-2020 at 01:11 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    That CTV article seems quite vague. At least for the Raptors, "opening the training facilities" means only one player at a time in the building, and one coach or trainer, no close interaction between them, and with disinfection of balls / equipment / surfaces in-between players. Locker rooms, fitness rooms, showers and offices all closed. In that situation, many players would probably just as well want to work out at home, with a trainer watching them over video.

    https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...next-week.html

    If TFC is training outside, it's lower risk, but it's still likely going to be strongly controlled, with no interaction between players.

    Which I think is good. I agree with Red CB, way more testing capacity is needed for this to go further. In Germany they still have some problems and huge debates about the Bundesliga reopening. That's despite the fact that Germany has the capacity to do 850,000 tests per week, yet normally uses less than half that capacity. There it's easy to say that the Bundesliga can pay for extra testing for the players & staff w/o affecting anyone else. In the US and Canada, that's much harder to say.
    Plus if you look to Germany, after the easing of some restrictions they have already seen a spike in cases. While I believe we as a society have moved from a mindset of life after covid to one where we are living with it around us, the does not mean they are some risks we can totally avoid.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...8o-KTE_ibaINO8

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  4. #94
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    At what point do you say we have to all move on and return to normal?

    Isolate the weak and let the rest move on with their lives, the mortality rate is thankfully far lower than feared.

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    We are not at the point where we can say "move on"


    The reason mortaility is lower then feared is because we are social distancing.

    But, the reproduction rate is going back up above 1 which means we are not winning the battle right now here in Ontario.

    What we need is massive testing, tracking and tracing capability and in Ontario until the case amounts per day are around 200, we are not there. We can't get on with our lives because to do so would kill people.

    ******************

    BTW, this disease does not just hit the weak.

    I have read a few dozen first hand accounts of people heretofore healthy in their 20-40's telling what it's like to get this disease and be either at home or in the hospital - they are readily available.

    The largest group getting it and being hospitalized is people in their 30's and 40's, mostly men.

    Yes, Covid 19 kills older people. Also tends to kill people with less money who are doing jobs none of us like - meat packing for example.

    Covid 19 maims the younger, scarring lungs, and we don't know the long term effects. There are some reports of some kids who get it getting a rare disease but this isn't proven yet.

    And those younger give it to people who give it to people who then give it to people who can't cope either due to age or unseen conditions.


    ********

    Gosh, I hear you Richard, I really do. We all want to get out and get on with our lives. BUT...the cost of doing it wrong is bad and not just in deaths.

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    Hmmm... now that Reuters has officially confirmed the stats of the 1968-1970 pandemic, I dont know why we all didn't just accept these numbers 2 months ago, I wonder if that will change anything.

    100,000 American's dead.
    1M people dead world wide.
    Flu out of Hong Kong.
    Over a year it lasted.
    Affected many 65+.

    No social distancing.
    No face masks.
    No closed business'.
    Sporting events. Concerts (like Woodstock). Normal outings... all good to go.
    Life went on as normal.

    What the hell changed?...

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Hmmm... now that Reuters has officially confirmed the stats of the 1968-1970 pandemic, I dont know why we all didn't just accept these numbers 2 months ago, I wonder if that will change anything.

    100,000 American's dead.
    1M people dead world wide.
    Flu out of Hong Kong.
    Over a year it lasted.
    Affected many 65+.

    No social distancing.
    No face masks.
    No closed business'.
    Sporting events. Concerts (like Woodstock). Normal outings... all good to go.
    Life went on as normal.

    What the hell changed?...
    Even under the most optimistic scenario (which assumes that 90% of people are asymptomatic), it's 5 times as deadly as the worst flu since 1918. Plus it's probably much more deadly than that. That's what's different.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Hmmm... now that Reuters has officially confirmed the stats of the 1968-1970 pandemic, I dont know why we all didn't just accept these numbers 2 months ago, I wonder if that will change anything.

    100,000 American's dead.
    1M people dead world wide.
    Flu out of Hong Kong.
    Over a year it lasted.
    Affected many 65+.

    No social distancing.
    No face masks.
    No closed business'.
    Sporting events. Concerts (like Woodstock). Normal outings... all good to go.
    Life went on as normal.

    What the hell changed?...
    Several factors.....
    - the 68-70 pandemic was an offshoot of the regular flu.... in fact some people were resistant from it in 1968 from the 1957 strain
    - COVID-19 is a novel virus... no one is immune.
    - we still don't know what all the symptoms are, nor do we know what the long term effects will be, even on those who had little to no outward symptoms
    - while both the 68-70 flu and COVID-19 are high contagious, modern travel makes things traffic at super speeds. Many people have said that SARS from 2002-04 would have spread much faster and further if it happened today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    At what point do you say we have to all move on and return to normal?

    Isolate the weak and let the rest move on with their lives, the mortality rate is thankfully far lower than feared.
    “Isolate the weak”. ??? What on earth are you talking about? This virus essentially causes you to drown in your own lungs. The British PM got it and says it was life and death. Is he “The weak?” Is your girlfriend? Your mum? My disabled son? Who are the “weak”? Should we round them up and shoot them first, to solve the problem? What?????
    Last edited by MightyDM; 05-09-2020 at 06:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Hmmm... now that Reuters has officially confirmed the stats of the 1968-1970 pandemic, I dont know why we all didn't just accept these numbers 2 months ago, I wonder if that will change anything.

    100,000 American's dead.
    1M people dead world wide.
    Flu out of Hong Kong.
    Over a year it lasted.
    Affected many 65+.

    No social distancing.
    No face masks.
    No closed business'.
    Sporting events. Concerts (like Woodstock). Normal outings... all good to go.
    Life went on as normal.

    What the hell changed?...
    Look up what would happen if we didn’t social distance. Every person who has it infects 2-3 people. Learn the math. If you don’t do something, the numbers are exponential. One person infected gets to 10,000 rapidly. Go look it up, and then come back on here and apologize to us and also everywhere you have said this. Here is the draft apology “holy shit, I didn’t realize how virulent this was and how it would infect millions if we didn’t take measures. We are lucky our society chose to do the right thing, but we cannot let up”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Hmmm... now that Reuters has officially confirmed the stats of the 1968-1970 pandemic, I dont know why we all didn't just accept these numbers 2 months ago, I wonder if that will change anything.

    100,000 American's dead.
    1M people dead world wide.
    Flu out of Hong Kong.
    Over a year it lasted.
    Affected many 65+.

    No social distancing.
    No face masks.
    No closed business'.
    Sporting events. Concerts (like Woodstock). Normal outings... all good to go.
    Life went on as normal.

    What the hell changed?...
    78000+ Americans have died in less than 3 months. The number will likely be much higher than 100000 when this is over, and that is with social distancing (which slows transmission and allows doctors to treat those infected).

    Right now we are doing ok but our ICUs are swamped. It’s not just the elderly who need hospital treatment, they are just less likely to survive it. If the transmission increases dramatically, preventable deaths will happen because the patients won’t be able to be treated.

    All this in addition to the unknown damage that this disease does. There are some scary stories of asymptomatic people with dangerously low blood oxygen levels.

  12. #102
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    The biggest problem is that what we actually “know” about this virus is nothing. The “data” being used by people to draw conclusions is useless.

    We don't really understand the vulnerability (yes, Long Term Care and the elderly, people with preconditions, but that is true for everything - this is clearly hitting certain situations/populations much harder or faster than others, for reasons not yet understood.

    We don't know really anything about how contagious or how lethal it is (people are beginning to guess maybe more contagious and less lethal than we have previously guessed). But it is all spitballing right now. Obviously there is the testing problem - but my own opinion is that testing isn’t the solution to reopening, it's mostly important for diagnosing contagion/death rates, which we need as input to reopening strategies.

    We don't know much about how or even if it mutates (mutation can make vaccines impossible)

    To reopen, we really need a breakthrough treatment or vaccine - or herd immunity.

    I totally understand why we are “gridlocked” into the position we are in. It's frustrating, but buying time is probably the right thing to do, until we get some answers from the scientists.
    Last edited by ensco; 05-09-2020 at 08:36 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Whoa gents. The question was "what the hell has changed?" The post is neither for one side or the other, or any type of political statement.

    You have a world 50 years ago going through something very similar, with no shut down. Today, reactions are very different.

    Now tie the above back to this thread and putting things back in place, and specifically how that could play out for sporting events. Could revisiting similar-ISH outbreaks and societies response to them influence today's decision makers for reactivating leagues now that more officially recognized data has been confirmed?

    1969 had woodstock. 2003 (??) had SARS, which if you remember we had a giant concert at downsview to raise funds for SARS, and 2003 was still a time that had high people movement around the world. Even 10 years ago with swine flu. All had their potency in their own way, etc. Some have argued they aren't comparable to now - that his time it's so radically different - and perhaps the answer then is simply "cant compare, this is so radically different and sports leagues need to charter a new path in a new world".

    If the above is worth replying to, then kindly do so. Pausing for thought between the differences of carrier-no-symptoms, infected-with-symptoms, recovered, and actual deaths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Whoa gents. The question was "what the hell has changed?".
    It's a novel coronavirus. Novel meaning “new”. The 1957 and 1968 ones were branches of existing, known viruses. There were known treatments, epidemiology estimates that held. It's all the difference in the world.

    Re SARS, it was also novel, but the huge difference is that it was never very contagious, although it was highly lethal. (That's why so many health workers were the victims then.) SARS was not a very big deal outside the Toronto and Hong Kong hospital systems (there were a few other cities), as containment within the hospitals worked. Low contagion viruses are easy to study/understand/control quickly.
    Last edited by ensco; 05-09-2020 at 08:55 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Whoa gents. The question was "what the hell has changed?" The post is neither for one side or the other, or any type of political statement.

    You have a world 50 years ago going through something very similar, with no shut down. Today, reactions are very different..
    What has changed is this virus & what we know about it - quite a lot about potency & transmission & we are still learning.

    Late 60's flu was a variant of the flu - many people had immunity/antibodies to it.
    Sars 2003 didn't infect people easily and in Toronto was largely kept to health care facilities. Once contained it died off.

    This thing...isn't contained. And learning how to deal with it occurs over time. Everything should be started with the phrase "As best as we know" But there is a heck of a lot we do know. This is a marathon, and it isn't on a flat course.

    *******

    That having been said, people react to opinions about Covid-19 based on personal experience, and those experiences are raw, emotional, deep and long lasting

    This thread was started by somebody who indicated a strong need to get a refund. The economic hardships are real. There will be lots of TFC supporters suffering economically - businesses threatened, rents getting tight.

    There is a lot of fear out there. If you or your family have something that causes immuno suppression, Covid 19 is a nightmare.

    If you are a declared essential worker, there is a lot of fear - you have to trust everybody you come into contact with to both not be an idiot & not come into contact with idiots.

    &

    I doubt I'm the only one among the RPB with a connection to somebody who has died. I had an elderly uncle in the UK die last week of "a previous condition" that was made worse by him getting Covid 19.


    I've personally learned to parse my anger/fear/responses. I have to have patience with people because we are ALL going through a hell of a lot of shit right now and once I lose my cool, I am no good to my family, my work (I'm the health & safety manager and have been responding to questions/issues releated to Covid19 since mid February) & anybody I come into contact around.

    I save my vehement / cathartic responses for the extreme covidiots / bots on twitter.

    Oh, and for talking to my family about "I can't believe the behaviour I just saw in the grocery store!"
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 05-09-2020 at 09:07 AM.

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    Happy to roll with the majority and suggest that carrying out the season in front of live fans is a bad idea. Pivoting on the topic then, and under the assumption of playing in front of empty seats - what's everyone's opinion about pumping in/adding fan noise and background sounds over top of game plan, and layered behind the commentator play-by-play?

    Although pre-season games are meaningless, the complete lack of fan sounds really deflates the watching experience as well. Maybe falsely adding in game simulation noises might add a bit of splash to the TV experience?

    Well understood that playing in front of an empty venue has its drawbacks for players and ultimate expression and passion which is the real dictating force... but since everything is all speculation now anyways - thoughts of pumping in added noise to the TV feed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Happy to roll with the majority and suggest that carrying out the season in front of live fans is a bad idea. Pivoting on the topic then, and under the assumption of playing in front of empty seats - what's everyone's opinion about pumping in/adding fan noise and background sounds over top of game plan, and layered behind the commentator play-by-play?

    Although pre-season games are meaningless, the complete lack of fan sounds really deflates the watching experience as well. Maybe falsely adding in game simulation noises might add a bit of splash to the TV experience?

    Well understood that playing in front of an empty venue has its drawbacks for players and ultimate expression and passion which is the real dictating force... but since everything is all speculation now anyways - thoughts of pumping in added noise to the TV feed?
    Imagine a menu of commentators and voices to select from: English, Spanish, Scots, American, how about a Newfoundlander for fun? ... and a choice what supporters group we hear and which ones we MUTE? That would be a novel use of technology!

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Happy to roll with the majority and suggest that carrying out the season in front of live fans is a bad idea. Pivoting on the topic then, and under the assumption of playing in front of empty seats - what's everyone's opinion about pumping in/adding fan noise and background sounds over top of game plan, and layered behind the commentator play-by-play?

    Although pre-season games are meaningless, the complete lack of fan sounds really deflates the watching experience as well. Maybe falsely adding in game simulation noises might add a bit of splash to the TV experience?

    Well understood that playing in front of an empty venue has its drawbacks for players and ultimate expression and passion which is the real dictating force... but since everything is all speculation now anyways - thoughts of pumping in added noise to the TV feed?
    I had a different thought. I watched some of the empty-stadium games that were still played before the shutdown. I think the huge, cavernous, echoing stadiums are an issue. I think piping in fan noises would be odd. Perhaps go the opposite direction -- try to make it an "intimate" game, 22 buddies playing a game down at the park. (While physically distancing, LOL.) Perhaps find a way to block the echo? Playing in smaller local stadiums might be an idea, on the other hand probably too hard to keep a safe distance in smaller locker rooms etc.

    Or is there a way to pipe in the sound from a couple of thousand fans watching on their own at home, like a massive audio-only Zoom meeting.

  19. #109
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    The sounds doesn't have to be piped into the stadium just added to the broadcast.

    The 'crowd' wouldn't be reacting to anything on the field though really.
    Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.

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    Exactly. The sound is pumped into the broadcast, not the stadium.

    You would have a whole series of sound bites ready to go. Home crowd booing a questionable/bad call. Goal or penalty celebration. Ref you suck. Dichio song softly in the background on 23m. Etc. The audio guys could have so much fun with that.

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    Two positive Coronavirus tests at Dynamo Dresden in the 2nd Bundesliga. All players, coaches, trainers, and other support staff have to go into a 14-day quarantine starting today. They won't be able to take part in the planned league restart.

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Two positive Coronavirus tests at Dynamo Dresden in the 2nd Bundesliga. All players, coaches, trainers, and other support staff have to go into a 14-day quarantine starting today. They won't be able to take part in the planned league restart.
    Makes you wonder how viable a return is to the pitch when at someone you do need to have full on trainings. Is too much of a chance being taken when it is becoming obvious that you do not have total control over your environment.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    South Korean K league restarted yesterday. They used simulated crowd noises into the broadcast. Wasn't odd, except that there was nobody in the stands

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Even had a Doneil Henry hattrick - mostly solid defensive play, VAR decision , makes one mistake to cost his team the game - just like old times

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    Volunteer Individual training at BMO Training Centre starts today.

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    RE crowd noises. Maybe someone will come up with a AI program that react to the flow of a live game and play appropriate level of reaction. I mean they do it in the video games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    RE crowd noises. Maybe someone will come up with a AI program that react to the flow of a live game and play appropriate level of reaction. I mean they do it in the video games.
    Houston & Chicago & LAFC wouldn't need that - they drone on the same no matter what is happening.

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    Paulson musing about MLS coming back

    https://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/2...is-summer.html

  29. #119
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    LAG suspending SSH payments


  30. #120
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    Athletic reporting an MLS proposal to run a mini tournament style season starting June 22, all teams based in Orlando, all matches closed door. Teams would fly in June 1st.

 

 

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