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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    We profoundly disagree. This looks like the ultimate short term move.

    Nothing here looks like burnishing the brand or working with the players. This is a situation where someone got profoundly outnegotiated, and is trying to find ways out, and is apparently willing to go to the mattresses to get out. It's pretty ugly, beneath the surface.
    It's all a matter of interpretation of MLS' actions. I don't expect the Don to come out and make a statement giving their real reasons .

    I too can't believe that they didn't put in a force majeure clause. It makes one wonder how good is the legal advice the owners are getting.

    For contrast, Wimbledon paid for pandemic insurance for years. They now come off looking like geniuses. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...on/5123987002/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    This is much less of a concern nowadays, they can run their kilometers weekly and TFC has one of the best facilities in NA.
    Cardio and strength vs playing are very different things.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    If I was a league looking at my assets (players), I'd be concerned about players not playing for an entire year - what that'll do to their fitness, skills, reflexes etc. I bet the players are feeling the same way. No player wants to take a year off.
    That's true...also at the same time...I worry about the long term health effects on a player if they do catch it. This virus seriously messes up your lungs and heart capacity - it has the potential to be career ending as we don't fully know what recover looks like. It's a dicey thing to risk a player worth millions of dollars - balancing the greater harm - being benched or virus?

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    We know pretty much nothing other than vague generalities about how you get it, how lethal it is if you get it, etc.

    As it relates to any non essential activity that inherently puts people potentially shedding the virus in close quarters with others for prolonged periods, such as contact sports, I really don’t see the validity of any argument other than that hunkering down is the correct thing to do.

    I get that money changes that equation. But it really shouldn’t.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I really don’t see the validity of any argument other than that hunkering down is the correct thing to do.

    I get that money changes that equation. But it really shouldn’t.
    Couldn't agree with you more. It would be terrible if someone associated with this in any capacity had permanent lung damage, or even worse, death from this. I'd rather do without than see that happen.

  6. #186
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    Only took 2 weeks for "this is the new normal" to develop about sports without fans. The pressure to do something for every sport is increasing.


    **************

    Right now, its mentally OK for me to watch games from Germany where I know everybody is tested and stuff is all being monitored properly.

    Watching stuff from the States though. where the social inequities of this disease are appalling and the "just let the old die for the rest of us" grifters are out in full force (but not the majority) ....that's going to be a different moral choice - not quite like watching sports from Apartheid South Africa but troubling none the less.

  7. #187
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    So there is a "piped in crowd noise" option that Fox in the US has but Sportsnet does not.

    I would absolutely loathe that.

    We know there is no crowd - piping in FAKE crowd noise disrespects the supporters who go each and every week and now can't.

    IF this thing in Orlando happens & TSN do that for TFC & I'm turning off the sound & talking to my TFC rep about it.

  8. #188
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    Everyone wants sports in the way that everyone wants this to be over. But that isn’t the same thing as wanting sports now, in the context of where we are.

    I don’t think there is a general growth in “pressure” to restart televised sports, outside owners and players (who have the economic interest- exception being MLS players). There is certainly pressure to resume outdoor activities, especially with summer arriving. But that is different.

    There is certainly a large number of underemployed sportswriters that are being fed the idea that there is pressure. Plus of course there is Trump and his base.

    I think most people, even in the US, are fine with no sports, if sports don’t make sense, and this idea that there is a groundswell of huge yearning - that is mostly AstroTurf and not the grass roots .
    Last edited by ensco; 05-24-2020 at 10:26 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  9. #189
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    Looks like the NHL's going ahead with a 24 team Stanley Cup playoffs. Sounds good, until the first player tests positive for the virus.

    https://twitter.com/NHLdotcom/status/1265386151352https://twitter.com/NHLdotcom/status...86151352979461
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    I would settle for watching TFC playing on the moon at this point.

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    The NHL plan sounds like it was devised by a bunch of kids on recess planning a schoolyard ball hockey tournament. I feel like Bettman is someone that I would not want leading my organization through this pandemic.

    Also the journos pushing the narrative that Canada’s quarantine laws are hindering the return of hockey should give their heads a shake. I hope we do not budge - hub city is so irrelevant for a spectatorless event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokecell View Post
    Also the journos pushing the narrative that Canada’s quarantine laws are hindering the return of hockey should give their heads a shake. I hope we do not budge - hub city is so irrelevant for a spectatorless event.

    Hockey culture in this country is toxic - Don Cherry was an anamoly in the 70's but people thought his attitudes were the norm - he warped thinking about that sport for so long that it is now rampantly sexist, racist, thin skinned, averse to change, & promotes social darwinism through a sick "follow the code" approach to everything.

    Many of the mainline media sports journalists grew up playing hockey to a certain level and thus are steeped within that culture - this breeds the hockey is Canada myth while "soccer is for whimps" thing that you still see among some of the 30 year old sport journos today.

    Thankfully, a growing amount of sports journalism in this country is being done by people outside of the main conglomerates. I may not always agree with Shireen Ahmed, for example, but it is possible to not be a classic white dude and talk about hockey in this country.

    This idea that Canada is in the wrong about quarantines because it hurts hockey is sick.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Hockey culture in this country is toxic - Don Cherry was an anamoly in the 70's but people thought his attitudes were the norm - he warped thinking about that sport for so long that it is now rampantly sexist, racist, thin skinned, averse to change, & promotes social darwinism through a sick "follow the code" approach to everything.

    Many of the mainline media sports journalists grew up playing hockey to a certain level and thus are steeped within that culture - this breeds the hockey is Canada myth while "soccer is for whimps" thing that you still see among some of the 30 year old sport journos today.

    Thankfully, a growing amount of sports journalism in this country is being done by people outside of the main conglomerates. I may not always agree with Shireen Ahmed, for example, but it is possible to not be a classic white dude and talk about hockey in this country.

    This idea that Canada is in the wrong about quarantines because it hurts hockey is sick.
    I wish there were more prominent figures who would call out the toxic nature. 100% accurate in your analysis. Anyways who the F wants play hockey in 30 degree weather.

    Jeez, they should just do a ball hockey tournament and donate proceeds to Covid research. End the season and regroup in the fall, whoever wins should bin their ring, absolutely worthless this year.

  14. #194
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    The MLS owners in their proposal have asked for players to give them the pandemic language they forgot to negotiate for in February. I would pay money to see Jozy's unfiltered reaction to that.

    Get ready for lockout threats and tryouts etc. This is going to be brass knuckles time.
    Last edited by ensco; 05-27-2020 at 12:24 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    MLS teams allowed to open up for small voluntary group sessions


    Details here https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2020/0...ining-sessions

  16. #196
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    The National Women's Soccer League has announced their plans for a tournament at the end of June in Utah. It marks the first North American league to return to play.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/...-challenge-cup

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    Premier League quadrupleheaders every Saturday and Sunday starting June 20. Serie A back June 20 also. NBA playoffs all but certain (much as I think that is a horrible mistake)

    So yeah, definitely, MLS games at 9am in swampy heat played for the 1000 hardcore that'll stream it, yup, so much pressure to do that, just so much pressure....
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  18. #198
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    This all sounds earily similar to the "time to open back up" sounds we were hearing in Ontario a couple of weeks ago.

    "Somebody else is open, so we must too"

  19. #199
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    To be fair, Georgia has been open for over a month and it hasn't seen a spike in Covid cases, but it hasn't gone down either. Then again, they seem to be taking the social distancing pretty seriously compared to some other states.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    To be fair, Georgia has been open for over a month and it hasn't seen a spike in Covid cases, but it hasn't gone down either. Then again, they seem to be taking the social distancing pretty seriously compared to some other states.
    Georgia hasn't seen a spike in Covid cases... but they've seen a big spike in "pneumonia" deaths. I think a couple of states are badly faking it. I'll post some stats when I find them...

    For starters here are some US-wide numbers: supposed pneumonia & flu deaths, w/o those classified as COVID-19. For the FULL years, the US averaged 55,641 of those deaths per year between 2014-2018. Through just less than 5 MONTHS in 2020, the pneumonia & flu provisional deaths are already at 101,398. WTF?!

    So far I'm only finding the fake numbers for Florida. Earlier today, I saw a similar chart including Florida, Texas, and Georgia. Georgia's numbers weren't as crazy as the other two, but still obviously way more "pneumonia" deaths than could be expected compared with other years.

    Plus somebody needs to look for abnormal spikes in deaths due to bronchitis, strokes, other heart & lung problems, and further unusual COVID-19 impacts. COVID-19 deaths are being undercounted in many countries; often it was because systems were overloaded (e.g. northern Italy), and/or people that died at home or in old-age homes were never tested. Beyond that, some countries, including some US states, are evidently cooking the books on purpose.

    EDIT here's some more, including Georgia. You need to click through to Twitter to see the full chart. For February through May, Georgia has almost 900 more "pneumonia" deaths than the previous years' average. Add those to Georgia's COVID-19 totals. Plus other mis-ID'd cases as mentioned above. But w/o knowing when all these other deaths happened, there's no way of knowing if there was a spike in COVID-19 deaths after Georgia started re-opening.

    Last edited by Auzzy; 05-30-2020 at 07:01 AM.

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    I can’t get my head around the NBA restart, which is sounding inevitable now.

    I just don’t get it. I don’t care how much you “seal” any bubble, you will have have hundreds (thousands?) going in and out, and home, every day. Hotel staff, security.

    Plus, cmon. That is an indoor, full contact sport.

    It just seems crazy.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I can’t get my head around the NBA restart, which is sounding inevitable now.

    I just don’t get it. I don’t care how much you “seal” any bubble, you will have have hundreds (thousands?) going in and out, and home, every day. Hotel staff, security.

    Plus, cmon. That is an indoor, full contact sport.

    It just seems crazy.
    Maybe play it outdoors, Venice-Beach style.

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    Half of NBA players, at least, have “drop dead” money (ie $10M net worth or whatever the number you think is a enough to tell anyone in the world to “drop dead”)

    If I were one of those, I just wouldn’t show up.

    If I showed up, I wouldn’t play defence.
    Last edited by ensco; 05-30-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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    I am actually seeing how soccer can work. It's outdoors, and aside from free kicks and corners, which are only maybe 5% of game play, there isn't much of the kind of proximity that seems to be the cause of spread.

    I get why the Premier League, Serie A and La Liga, the top leagues, will restart.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  25. #205
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    MLSPA has put in a counter proposal - includes a 7.5% pay cut. 4 week tourney. One issue is the latest CBA (not yet ratified) was to have revenue sharing start in 2020 - owners want to defer that now. That's another paycut.

    All this in an Athletic article - https://theathletic.com/1846205/2020...end-to-owners/

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    ^Players are requiring “final say” on the league's health and safety plan.

    Until that part is a lot more clear, I don’t think they are nearly as close as “putting in a counter proposal” implies.

    Also, events this weekend are overtaking everything. The leagues may now not be able to provide the massive level of security to “seal” any of these venues, that security may be needed elsewhere.
    Last edited by ensco; 05-31-2020 at 08:22 AM.
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    Well the rank & file voted for it


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    Listen, I don’t want to be annoying or a broken record... but the players are playing this out with skill. They see the blame game coming, the accusations about how they won’t play, etc

    What they voted for was a plan that gave them 100% of the control on whether to ultimately play or not. That is nowhere near voting on a detailed plan that has been mutually agreed upon.

    The players made a concession. They’ll accept a 7.5% pay cut ( which signals to me that 15% is their bottom line). But that is all they are going to give, and even then, they reserve the right to walk away for any reason they feel like.

    Just my humble opinion. If I turn out to be wrong I will say so.

    (I am a bit out on a limb as none of the MLS writers anywhere are saying this, but my opinion is that they are all getting played and don’t understand labour negotiations.)
    Last edited by ensco; 05-31-2020 at 09:21 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  29. #209
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    Players also extending the negotiatied CBA by a year. So, yeah, a bit of PR going on here.

    Many in the US are comparing this to the MLB discussions which seem to be going nowhere.


    I think this gets done, especially with the EPL coming back soon.

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    I have been lamenting the coverage of this. Overnight, finally, a major MLS writer starts talking some sense.

    Lockout tomorrow?

    https://www.espn.com/football/major-league-soccer/story/4104589/lockout-looms-as-mls-push-back-on-latest-offer-from-major-league-soccer-player-association


    Although he doesn’t seem to understand the root cause. Is there nobody in the soccer world who was curious enough to figure out on his/her own that the MLS player, alone in sports, has been getting paid here? Neither side is ever going to just “tell” anyone about this - Garber knows he should be fired for not negotiating this clause properly, and MLSPA has an interest in maintaining status quo, it doesn’t need to hasten the inevitable stories about “greedy players” (those are coming now, spurred by owners - bank it)

    These reporters need to stop relying 100% on league or player “sources” and start doing some thinking on their own...

    So the article stops short of what I think is the correct view, which is that the lockout (ie to stop paying the players) is the whole point of this charade. There is no revenue expectation from this sham tournament, and they are fine with the risk to the brand. There is no long game. MLS owners just want the bleeding (ie player salaries of $70M a month) to stop, and if that means weird games with scabs that they pay $20K for a month in the Florida heat, fine. If you need to play these "games" at 9am, all the better, it makes the recovery from this sorry ass episode easier.

    The real question is, will the MLS owners moves stand up in court? Have they done enough to convince a court that they have bargained for this summer tournament “in good faith”? (we need someone to talk to a labour lawyer here)
    Last edited by ensco; 06-01-2020 at 09:05 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

 

 

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