TFC 2020 player in-season roster discussion

[jabbronies]

With the regular season now completed and the next game over 2 weeks away, this seems like a good time to speculate on who is staying and who is leaving.

Gone:
Altidore - yup
Gallardo - yup
Mullins - yup

On the Fence:
Fraser - Still not out of the race to replace Bradley. Really depends on how the Priso experiment goes. We were singing the same praises of Fraser only 1 year ago.

Staying:
Ciman + Zavaleta - CB's are hard to come by. They are both veteran with finals experience coming off the bench. Pair them with a competent CB (Mavinga, but really Omar) and they can start a game or two without shitting the bed.

Endoh - they got rid of him once and regretted it. They won't do it again. He's fills in the Gallardo vacancy.

Schaffelburg - too young to ditch. He would end up taking the. minutes that Mullins leaves open

[Mikmacdo]

With the regular season now completed and the next game over 2 weeks away, this seems like a good time to speculate on who is staying and who is leaving.

Staying:
Achara
Akinola
Bono
Bradley
Deleon
Delgado
Gallacher
Gonzalez
Laryea
Mavinga
Nelson
Osorio
Poz
Piatti
Priso
Q

Gone:
Altidore
Ciman
Endoh
Fraser
Gallardo
Mullins
Schaffelburg
Zavaleta

This is just a quick list made from the top of my head and I didn't check the remaining term on contracts. The list is just my opinion on which players the club would like to move.

you missed auro and morrow. auro will hopefully be staying. could see laryea getting sold.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I guess the intention of moving Zavs will generate a pretty intense internal war between Vanney and Curtis, lol.
I would agree to keep Zavs if he would be paid maximum 150,000 per season, but of course he would not agree to that, it's too much of a paycut.

[ag futbol]

At some point (and I’m not sure if that’s next year) you’d want to put someone line Dunn or Romeo in Zavaleta’s spot.

I’m the mean time, I’m not too fussed. He’s far down the depth chart and when he’s been on the field he’s been good enough to be the last resort CB.

[TFC1154ever]

Watching this team this year, and in the final last year against Seattle, I don’t think we have enough difference makers up top. For me, the only 2 consistent ones are Pozuelo, and Laryea. When we had that magically team in 2017, we had 3.

If I was Manning, I’d find some way to off load Jozy (don’t know if that possible), and sign a legit dangerous, healthy striker as a DP. I think the FO wants Manning to sign a “Big name player” to get some buzz back at BMO Field.

I would loan out Gallardo, and replace him with another young player they like from South America.

With Piatti, I’d let him walk. For me, he’s decent, but not a difference maker. If you can sign a young DP using his money ala like 6-7 teams in the MLS do, I’d do it. Find the next kid from South America that’s about ready to make the jump to Europe.

With the Zavaleta/Ciman money, you can find 2 good CB’s with that money. They are way over paid, there is no arguments about that. Once we get back to champions league (fingers crossed), we are going to be playing 40+ games a season, and you need a good 3rd CB at least. We currently don’t have that IMO

[leedsandTFC]

squad needs a total revamp in the offseason and to get a lot younger.

also need to look into our training an conditioning teams, as we seem to get a lot more injuries than most teams.

out in the summer:

Altidore - 1/3 of our wage bill and only fit 1/3 of games
Ciman- too old, way too slow + erratic decision making
Gallardo- not MLS quality, criminal to have him taking up TAM money
Mullins- not good enough even as backup
Fraser- needs solid game time, loan him to USL. not goo enough atm
Endoh- decent work ethic and decent guy, but not good enough.

Questionable:

Zavaleta- couple of decent performances towards end of season, if playing next to the right CB partner can be solid enough
Piatti- love the guy, and think he's been integral to our success. however, DP contract expiring and with injury history, questionable whether it's a smart signing at age 31 at DP wages. no brainer signing on TAM.

We need a major revamp and to get our best players on the pitch consistently or we will be passed by Philly, Columbus and NYCFC as the powerhouse in the East.

[rydermike]

I think people keep forgetting that TAM players are DPs who are bought down. People keep saying get rid of Piatti because he's not DP worthy. Piatti makes the same amount of money as Bradley ($1.6 million). The difference is Bradley was bought down with TAM funds and there was none left to buy down Piatti. If Gallardo is gone, there are the needed TAM funds to buy him down and open a DP slot.

TAM max is $1,615,500 which is also what the max for a 3rd DP is under the new CBA, so it's not like we can sign another Pozuelo if we get rid of Piatti, we're limited to a Piatti level salary, unless we find somehow to get rid of Jozy

[noxx98]

I think people keep forgetting that TAM players are DPs who are bought down. People keep saying get rid of Piatti because he's not DP worthy. Piatti makes the same amount of money as Bradley ($1.6 million). The difference is Bradley was bought down with TAM funds and there was none left to buy down Piatti. If Gallardo is gone, there are the needed TAM funds to buy him down and open a DP slot.

TAM max is $1,615,500 which is also what the max for a 3rd DP is under the new CBA, so it's not like we can sign another Pozuelo if we get rid of Piatti, we're limited to a Piatti level salary, unless we find somehow to get rid of Jozy

I think the only way we can exceed the TAM max for a DP is if they are a young DP. From the Athletic:

MLS will still allow teams to sign up to three DPs, but it reserved the right to “limit the compensation for the third DP to the maximum TAM salary of $1.61 million, unless the player is 23 years old or younger, in which case there will be no limit.”
https://theathletic.com/1590363/2020...-cba-analysis/

So, we could get a Poz quality DP, but only if they're under 23. Which seems hard to come by.

Gallardo's annual salary is also only $275k a year (or it was last season). That's about what Mullins/Zavaleta get. I know he gets a lot of flak for being a TAM signing, but the TAM only came from the transfer fee. It's unclear how the transfer fee was paid, but I'd guess it was paid in only one season, so Gallardo was TAM level last year, but this year with no transfer fee being applied against his salary cap hit, he falls below the TAM threshold. I know Gallardo needs to show more and he was marketed by the team as a TAM winger to us, but his salary is not really reflective of a starter quality player in MLS these days. His salary last year was 12th highest on the team.

[NK Toronto]

Does anyone see Bradley being converted to a CB? He played a few games in that role when Moor was injured and did a commendable job. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3 man rotation at CB next year with Mavinga and Omar, especially since Mavinga is injury prone. This would allow the club to move on from Ciman, plus removes Bradley from midfield where maybe he can no longer play effectively.

[Auzzy]

Does anyone see Bradley being converted to a CB? He played a few games in that role when Moor was injured and did a commendable job. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3 man rotation at CB next year with Mavinga and Omar, especially since Mavinga is injury prone. This would allow the club to move on from Ciman, plus removes Bradley from midfield where maybe he can no longer play effectively.

As mentioned in the other thread, the danger with Bradley at CB would be if he and the team still try to cycle every attack through him. Also with Gonzalez (especially this year) and Ciman, and others in the past, we've seen the problems with slow CBs. It's really easy for good players to run past Bradley these days. At least with Gonzalez, you get the aerial presence, which is not really the case with Bradley.

I bet they will wait it out and see how Bradley recovers & regroups after a full off-season and pre-season. I think he could play a diminished role in midfield -- either in terms of playing parts of games where needed; and/or in terms of Bradley's exact role, and who he's paired with. I just don't know if Bradley or the team will be able to transition him to reduced responsibilities.

A big question will also be Bradley's role as captain. Unless he does a huge recovery and improvement past his current form, I don't think it should be him anymore. But who else? I think Osorio was captain when Bradley was out, but I don't actually think Oso has the right demeanour for it. Gonzalez could be good, but he's fading. Pozuelo could be good (I mean he played every friggin game in this crazy season) but I'm not sure if they think his English is good enough for it.

[OgtheDim]

Seen some suggestions that Oso is a different style of captain then Bradley but equally effective on the pitch. Vanney trusts him as do the players. Bradley's effect in the training ground is legendary & will never be equaled. But Oso has seen it all, done it all, has worked through it all & become, I would argue, our best Canadian player ever (yes, better then DeRo was IMHO). Moving forward, the midfield will be his to run. And, I would argue he significantly matured the last 2 seasons.

[Graeme]

All good points. I think we know Bradley by now--if he just isn't cutting it on the field, it is certain that he knows it. If he can't recover his previous form, I think he will be the first one to call himself out (well, except for all us Nostradamuses on here).

(Nostradamuses? Nostradami?)

[NK Toronto]

Given Bradley's tenure, status in the club, and leadership, he is one player they may want to accommodate even if he is not the best fit in a certain position. I can see the club wanting to move on from Jozy, but I believe Bradley will stay with TFC past his playing days. He may even be Curtis' replacement.

[noxx98]

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1326544894471532549?s=21

I had been wondering when we might get 2020 salaries. Looks like it will be a while, which is disappointing.

[Areathrasher]

A reminder that the use of TAM on Gallardo was to cover the transfer fee

[kodiakTFC]

A reminder that the use of TAM on Gallardo was to cover the transfer fee

*puts down torch*

Good to know.

[ag futbol]

*puts down torch*

Good to know.

My torch is still burning on that one. We waited a year for that signing and they roundly struck out.

A few people have made this point but I think we (myself included) spend too much time focusing on Vanney and not enough on Ali Curtis and the front office

[Yohan]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/goty/2020/vote

Let's give Laryea and Piatti some love for Goal of the Year

[Blindside16]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/soty/2020/vote

Let's not forget Q

[James17930]

So this isn't team roster stuff, but ...

Vanney still hasn't re-upped yet. They were talking weeks ago about how 'it just needed to be signed,' and yet something is obviously not right.

There's some speculation that he might be interested in the LA Galaxy job.

[ag futbol]

I noticed that too. Seems odd that it’s not done at this point.

As a side note:

Check out this tweet at [url]https://twitter.com/TMusa_news/status/1327469522228396033[/url]

There is a decent chance other teams make bids for our players in the off season. Hope we’re ready.

[jabbronies]

I noticed that too. Seems odd that it’s not done at this point.

As a side note:

Check out this tweet at [url]https://twitter.com/TMusa_news/status/1327469522228396033[/url]

There is a decent chance other teams make bids for our players in the off season. Hope we’re ready.

What does this mean exactly? Osorio for instance - he's worth 6m on the transfer market - but his salary is nowhere near that. How can a team profit that much (5.5million?) of him?

[rydermike]

What does this mean exactly? Osorio for instance - he's worth 6m on the transfer market - but his salary is nowhere near that. How can a team profit that much (5.5million?) of him?

Transfermarkt is not an official site. The "transfer values" are estimates based on calculations. Basically, it's saying what they think their projected transfer fee would be if a team wanted to buy Osorio from us.

In terms of how "they profit that much off him" given his salary is lower, think of it like a house. You may pay $1 million for a house, but that house isn't worth a million every single year to you. Rather the million is the long term value you're paying for. So the transfer fees are higher than salary to compensate for both the current as well as future value if TFC were to sell him.

[OgtheDim]

Kristian Jack indicated during the broadcast on Sunday it was all but signed and would get done this week. No news might be issues or they are waiting for the right day to announce it.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

So here are our players worth at least 1 million Euros, from transfermarkt:

	Player	Date of birth / Age		Market value
	Alejandro Pozuelo	Sep 20, 1991 (29)		€8.00m
21	Jonathan Osorio	Jun 12, 1992 (28)		€6.00m
17	Jozy Altidore	Nov 6, 1989 (31)		€3.20m
20	Ayo Akinola	Jan 20, 2000 (20)		€3.00m
	Richie Laryea	Jan 7, 1995 (25)		€2.50m
7	Pablo Piatti	Mar 31, 1989 (31)		€2.40m
	Omar González	Oct 11, 1988 (32)		€1.40m
4	Michael Bradley	Jul 31, 1987 (33)		€1.20m
	Chris Mavinga	May 26, 1991 (29)		€1.00m
8	Marky Delgado	May 16, 1995 (25)		€1.00m
27	Liam Fraser	Feb 13, 1998 (22)		€1.00m

Fun thing: they are exactly 11 guys.
So who's gonna play goalkeeper (I guess the answer is obvious).

[MikeForbes]

Crazy that Delgado is still only 25.

[kuku]

MLS ZONE @mls_zone

Brazilian attacker Hulk has received an offer from an unnamed MLS team. He has played his last regular season game for Chinese club Shanghai SIPG and can join his new team on a free transfer in January. He is 34-years-old and is valued at $5.5 million. (Globe Esporte) #MLS

[PizzaEatingYeti]

MLS ZONE @mls_zone

Brazilian attacker Hulk has received an offer from an unnamed MLS team. He has played his last regular season game for Chinese club Shanghai SIPG and can join his new team on a free transfer in January. He is 34-years-old and is valued at $5.5 million. (Globe Esporte) #MLS

No thanks!

[OgtheDim]

No thanks but if the Impact want to waste the Cheese Man's money, who are we to complain...

[MikeForbes]

Hulk is such an LA Galaxy type player.