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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Shaff was very effective for lots of things today. Just two bad touches but in the other hand Marky passed the ball right to them early on; Poz fell over etc etc
    You know what I find extremely interesting?
    How different people can watch the same game and some people will say so and so played great and some will say so and so played badly.

    However in this case I am truly dumbfounded that you think shaff as “effective”

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    TFC fans deserve better then to watch players like Schaff. It’s incompetence on behalf of Vanney and staff to start him imo
    To be honest, I want to watch Schaff week in week out. The kid is exciting to watch, plus is such a great kid coming from a true East Coast family.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    I would like to see him play week in and week out as well...... in a Halifax Wanderer's kit.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    He is actually 20 and at that age a players touch should be developed. He can improve on his positioning and awareness but touch and ball handling skills are a talent. You either have it or you don't. What I saw today is a player who doesn't. He reminds me a lot of Ricketts.

    My point is if we want to win MLS Cup this year we can't afford to be a training ground for young players to develop. He shouldn't have been in the line up today. The fact that Vanny took him out at halftime is an acknowledgment by Vanney that starting him was a mistake.
    I saw a player whose movement gave the other team fits. Lots of players touch let them down today - Marky passed it right to their striker just outside our penalty area, Poz passed it out of bounds and lost it two or three times, Oso made errant passes. Yes two of Shaff’s touches were terrible, but it’s awfully unfair for this board to pile on him. We were up 1-0 when he went off, after all.

  5. #155
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    [QUOTE=NK Toronto;1917970][QUOTE=MightyDM;1917968]
    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    It was a 4-4-2 today
    [/QUOTE




    Are you sure? Who was the 2nd striker? Poz was playing behind Jozy.

    Man why can't I get the quotes to which I am responding to show in yellow?
    Pretty sure.

    Poz behind Jozy; Marky and Oso flanked by Endoh and Shaff.

    It’s probably our most effective formation right now.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    He is actually 20 and at that age a players touch should be developed. He can improve on his positioning and awareness but touch and ball handling skills are a talent. You either have it or you don't. What I saw today is a player who doesn't. He reminds me a lot of Ricketts.

    My point is if we want to win MLS Cup this year we can't afford to be a training ground for young players to develop. He shouldn't have been in the line up today. The fact that Vanny took him out at halftime is an acknowledgment by Vanney that starting him was a mistake.
    Your last point is put fairly. I dont fully agree though. The first half of the season we need to test players. For example, Ciman will start next week I am guessing; if not the week after.

    Also, I maintain that his movement and pace gave San Jose significant troubles e whole first half.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post

    I stand by my earlier comments that we can't be a training ground for developing players this season. Our window to win is now. Given how well Laryea played last season I find Vanney's decision to start Shaff over him puzzling.
    I completely disagree with you. "Win now" is a typical Toronto attitude, but I want TFC to be a top 5 MLS team always. In a salary cap league you have to develop young players for at least some of the roles because that is the lowest cost way and how you can fit your other players under the cap. If you never give the young players first team minutes, how will they develop? Basically you should have one younger player every game.

    TFC specifically hired Curtis as GM because of his experience in bringing up players in the NYRB organization.

    It seems to me the coaching trust was constantly being criticized here for not giving Shaff enough first team minutes last year. Now Shaff is played, he has one bad game and some people panic and want him sent to the CPL.

    First game of the year, a tie, let's not panic yet. I'm looking forward to the season.

  8. #158
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    Just watched Vanney interview. He says Shaff was hurt.

    I agree with old timer. Players develop let’s give them time. Also, we lost the game because Endoh didn’t close down Espinosa in the first goal and because Q was out of position in the second (and because VAR doesn’t review fouls and dives outside the box). Also perhaps preparation. If a centre back is coming up to take a free kick, it’s likely he will shoot. Suppose you added Mullins to the wall. Would it have helped?

    OK result. Shitty way to get it

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I saw a player whose movement gave the other team fits. Lots of players touch let them down today - Marky passed it right to their striker just outside our penalty area, Poz passed it out of bounds and lost it two or three times, Oso made errant passes. Yes two of Shaff’s touches were terrible, but it’s awfully unfair for this board to pile on him. We were up 1-0 when he went off, after all.

    He received a pass right at the edge of the penalty area and wasn't even able to get off a shot. A missed opportunity that could have resulted in a win. He provides speed and nothing else.

    Tosaint Ricketts also was capable of giving another team fits with his speed, and he would come on as a sub and give us the occasional spark. However whenever he was forced to play significant minutes due to injuries his limited technical skills and his inability to finish were exposed, and the club eventually decided to move on. This is how I see Shaffelburg. Remember last year he also received a number of starts until about midway through the season after which he mostly sat on the bench. Unless we are decimated by injuries I don't think we are going to see a lot of him. Given his age wouldn't both he and the club be better off if he were on loan with a lower level team where he could be a starter and have the opportunity to develop?

    Anyway, I've said my piece on him. Time to move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I completely disagree with you. "Win now" is a typical Toronto attitude, but I want TFC to be a top 5 MLS team always. In a salary cap league you have to develop young players for at least some of the roles because that is the lowest cost way and how you can fit your other players under the cap. If you never give the young players first team minutes, how will they develop? Basically you should have one younger player every game.

    TFC specifically hired Curtis as GM because of his experience in bringing up players in the NYRB organization.

    It seems to me the coaching trust was constantly being criticized here for not giving Shaff enough first team minutes last year. Now Shaff is played, he has one bad game and some people panic and want him sent to the CPL.

    First game of the year, a tie, let's not panic yet. I'm looking forward to the season.

    Would have preferred that young player to have been Fraser, who in my opinion is more worthy of a start.

    Okay, that's it no more from me on Shaffelburg. As you can tell I won't be one of his followers on Instagram.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    He received a pass right at the edge of the penalty area and wasn't even able to get off a shot. A missed opportunity that could have resulted in a win. He provides speed and nothing else.

    Tosaint Ricketts also was capable of giving another team fits with his speed, and he would come on as a sub and give us the occasional spark. However whenever he was forced to play significant minutes due to injuries his limited technical skills and his inability to finish were exposed, and the club eventually decided to move on. This is how I see Shaffelburg. Remember last year he also received a number of starts until about midway through the season after which he mostly sat on the bench. Unless we are decimated by injuries I don't think we are going to see a lot of him. Given his age wouldn't both he and the club be better off if he were on loan with a lower level team where he could be a starter and have the opportunity to develop?

    Anyway, I've said my piece on him. Time to move on.
    It’s reasonable to say he needs development time. I agree. Just saw more on this occasion than you.

    Besides, how did Q miss that??!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Give Shaff a break. There is enough there with him to preserve until we know for sure it wont work out.
    11 games is absolutely not enough to judge a 20 yr old.
    oh for sure, let's see what he's got, in CPL.

    We can loan him to a CPL side and see if he can bag 10-15 goals. Unless he proves him self at a lower league I just don't get why he out of everyone deserves this opportunity

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    I just hope we don't look back at this match as two points lost that cost us the supporters shield.

    I stand by my earlier comments that we can't be a training ground for developing players this season. Our window to win is now. Given how well Laryea played last season I find Vanney's decision to start Shaff over him puzzling.

    High expectations for the first game of the season.

    Fun fact, last time TFC WON away to a western conference team, in the regular season, was 2017

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    Shaff was okay when he was on the left, but when he switched to the right he couldn't figure out what to do and kept losing possession.

    I'm still kind of pissed about this. Should've been a win. Too much trying to pass the ball into the net, again. We need guys to take more shots.

    That's one thing I like about Mullins. He's a pure striker – he gets anywhere near the net, he shoots. We need more of that.

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    Criticizing Vanney for starting Shaffleburg is really faithless.

    Shaff was in there, I am sure, because he wa next man up, he earned it in camp. He has a first touch, cmon, but a lot of kids have problems translating what they do into games. Given him and Vanney a break. Have some patience. (I bet I could find 200 posts from 2-3 years ago declaring Endoh's career over, and Vanney an idiot for playing him)

    It was a good sub by Vanney to move Laryea in there. Which was kind of hilarious because the guy I was watching with and I were discussing the idea of Laryea on the wing just before he scored (we hadn’t realized he had actually gone in there, we were watching with the sound off in a bar)
    Last edited by ensco; 03-01-2020 at 08:24 AM.
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  16. #166
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    It's good to see some posters in midseason form after a quiet offseason

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    It is a draw. Should of been a win, but we move on. Shaff should go on loan somewhere (Halifax) though when Piatti is healthy. He needs minutes and probably some experience at LB. Vanney picked the perfect team for that match and most of those guys played fairly well. The only guy who didn't seem to be himself was Altidore.

  18. #168
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    Why does everyone think Altidore was bad? This is bizarre.

    He won a PK, all by himself.

    Even with that, the refs let us/him down. He was being brutalized. They made a point of beating the crap out of him every time he touched the ball, then worked the refs just as hard every time they did it. Even though it cost them a PK, it kind of worked.

    We were playing long balls deep to him, and he was winning more than he was losing.

    Give me a break.

    The SJ strategy was to take Pozo and Jozy out of the game, whatever the cost. We had better get used to it, as a team, and you cannot hang that on Jozy when it works! as it did for a lot of this game. The way to break that down is for others to step up.
    Last edited by ensco; 03-01-2020 at 09:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Why does everyone think Altidore was bad? This is bizarre.

    He won a PK, all by himself.

    Even with that, the refs let us/him down. He was being brutalized. They made a point of beating the crap out of him every time he touched the ball, then worked the refs just as hard every time they did it. Even though it cost them a PK, it kind of worked.

    They were playing long balls deep to him, and he was winning more than he was losing.

    Give me a break.
    I don't think Altidore was bad, he did a good job holding the ball up and giving others space. I just hold him and Pozuelo to a higher standard as opposed to someone like Endoh or Layrea.

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    Yes I know good old time management bla,bla,bla but taking off Pozuelo with 15 minutes still to play only up by a goal, then taking off Altidore too shortly after, they needed these two guys on longer. Keep them on and your chance of another goal are higher, they keep the other team a bit more honest from being more offensive minded knowing if they commit too many guys up these two guys can kill you. Vanney should have kept both on longer and maybe taken off only Altidore off later. They have the whole week off before the next game so no need to take your two best players off at that time of the game, you keep them on and this game would have most likely been won. Get back to me when these two points thrown away cost them the playoffs or home playoff games.

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    I am concerned about our ability to create scoring chances. I view our forwards as our Achilles heel. Shut down Jozy and you shut down the team. If we are relying on Endoh and Shaff to step up then we are in trouble.

    Right now we are worse than at the end of last season. I think we were better with Benezet in the line-up than with the wingers who played yesterday. We shed so many salaries in the off season. Is there no TAM or GAM available to go out and sign a quality forward?

    If Piatti doesn't play significant minutes this year it will be a lost season. Really disappointed in the off-season.

    Maybe we would have been better off re-signing Bradley as a DP, which might have left enough TAM GAM to resign both Benezet plus another striker?
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 03-01-2020 at 10:44 AM.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    It's good to see some posters in midseason form after a quiet offseason
    Hahahaha hahahahaha. Well played sit

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    It's good to see some posters in midseason form after a quiet offseason
    Seriously dude...I can't believe some of these posts already. Talking about these 2 points coming back to bite us in the playoff race - get a grip people.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Criticizing Vanney for starting Shaffleburg is really faithless.

    Shaff was in there, I am sure, because he wa next man up, he earned it in camp. He has a first touch, cmon, but a lot of kids have problems translating what they do into games. Given him and Vanney a break. Have some patience. (I bet I could find 200 posts from 2-3 years ago declaring Endoh's career over, and Vanney an idiot for playing him)
    Yes and no. Certainly finding faults in this game from Vanney is nit picking and to suggest Shaffelburg needs to be banished to the TFC II is unfair.

    But if you wanted to make the larger point Shaffelburg really doesn’t have the skills to be playing as a FW in a front three long term I’d agree. His strengths are pace, work rate, and crossing. To be good in that wide forward spot those certainly help but also you need to be good cutting inside and threatening the goal and combining with teammate for quick short passes. He looks a world away from doing that.

    I’d use him as a stop gap when needed or when we need a sub LB or a wide player in a 3-5-2.

    If we’re investing in anyone in this FW spot it should be Nelson.

    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    I am concerned about our ability to create scoring chances. I view our forwards as our Achilles heel. Shut down Jozy and you shut down the team. If we are relying on Endoh and Shaff to step up then we are in trouble.
    Agreed but I have some time for Endoh. He cut inside a provides good 1-2 options. But overall I think he’s more a workman like sub than starter.

    Watching some of the other wide forwards in the league and how much of a threat they are to score vs. what options we have at our disposal, I hope Piatti is healthy and ready to step up. If he’s not I think we’re maybe a top 10 team but not top 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    I have watched the replay over and over in slow motion.
    Q doesn't jump straight up to block it over the net, he jumps sideways.
    All he has to do is jump up and knock it over the net.
    I assume he can jump at least as high as the crossbar can't he?
    It makes no sense, I suspect he let this goal in on purpose.
    It was disappointing to have the game tied on pretty much the last play of the game, after a strong first half and an admittedly weaker second half. And while Q definitely should have done better, to say that he let the goal in on purpose is absurd. While I am not sure it will add value to the board to hear it, I think you have to support a comment like that (and hopefully with facts, not conspiracy theories). Otherwise, I think that deserves a retraction or an apology...

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    did you watch the video in slow motion? you have to do that to see it.

    why is he crouched down? explain to me why would he crouch down on this play?
    he is crouched down during the shot also.
    why does he lung sideways with his left arm?
    why does the right arm not get extended also?
    There is no way you have been a goalie and are asking these questions.

    I feel like its a 20-20 visions type remarks we are seeing here.

    The reason Q let that goal in is because he expected a nearpost cross due to the 4 players running there, so he stepped forward. However the shot came and he had to shift his weight back to where he jumped at the ball like you should to get maximum range, but couldnt reach it due to that opening step.

    It happens, goalies cheat sometimes to try and read the play and he read the play wrong
    Last edited by Voodooman; 03-01-2020 at 12:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    did you watch the video in slow motion? you have to do that to see it.

    why is he crouched down? explain to me why would he crouch down on this play?
    he is crouched down during the shot also.
    why does he lung sideways with his left arm?
    why does the right arm not get extended also?
    I appreciate the reply. As I said, Q could definitely have done better. I think what you describe are all things that he could have done better, and are very fair points. It is a big leap from that, though, to the fact that he let the goal in on purpose.

    Not sure what Q's incentive would be to let a goal in on purpose, since keeping the ball out of the net is pretty much his whole purpose in life (though I still think his distribution is very good).

    BTW, I am just watching the highlights from the Ajax-Getafe Europa League game from this week, and in the 63rd minute, Ajax scored a goal from pretty much the same position. There was a slight touch on the ball, but the goalkeeper looked pole-axed. He was caught between looking for the header on and watching for the straight through ball (also a 2 person wall, BTW). He is an Eridivisie first team goalkeeper, and he didn't look great on the goal, but I think that is a pretty tough spot to be in.

    I have always been a Q fan, and think he is a great improvement over Bono, who unfortunately significantly regressed from 2017. I am happy to cut him some slack for the few mistakes that he makes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwade View Post
    Seriously dude...I can't believe some of these posts already. Talking about these 2 points coming back to bite us in the playoff race - get a grip people.
    Only 33 more matches to turn this season around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    did you watch the video in slow motion? you have to do that to see it.

    why is he crouched down? explain to me why would he crouch down on this play?
    he is crouched down during the shot also.
    why does he lung sideways with his left arm?
    why does the right arm not get extended also?

    we had a 99% chance of winning that game during live betting odds.
    whenever you see a very low probability occurrence like that occur be suspicious, investigate further
    I can’t even believe this...

    Not like fixing has never happened in sports - but you really think of all people, Q let a goal in on purpose? I suggest you give your head a shake.

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    I just realized that this is the same Alanis who started both games for Chivas against us.

    We knew Alanis could shoot. You know how?

    Even though he is a CB, Almeyda picked him in the final to take the first PK against us (and he scored).

    Then Almeyda picked him again yesterday to take that FK.

    It's a small world.
    Last edited by ensco; 03-01-2020 at 01:23 PM.
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