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  1. #61
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    Best way to do it is you play everyone in the league once, and your own division twice. It’s the most even, and makes the most sense.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Fixed.
    Hahahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC1154ever View Post
    Best way to do it is you play everyone in the league once, and your own division twice. It’s the most even, and makes the most sense.
    But you can't do that beyond 34 teams (once against every team in the league except your designated rival). The fact they've started to have teams not play each other in the regular season just points the way forward from this point forwards - Vermes might be lowballing 40: You could have any number of 6-team divisions, play home and away within your own division, and play a single game against 4 other divisions on a rotating basis. But personally I think there has to be an upper limit based on media desirable matchups: They'll want as many LA-NY matchups as they possibly can each season and the more divisions that are made, the less likely that is to occur. I think they'll cap the league at 36 teams for about a decade or two, allow teams to float to locations where they're stable, then either expand further, or institute pro-rel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    But you can't do that beyond 34 teams (once against every team in the league except your designated rival). The fact they've started to have teams not play each other in the regular season just points the way forward from this point forwards - Vermes might be lowballing 40: You could have any number of 6-team divisions, play home and away within your own division, and play a single game against 4 other divisions on a rotating basis. But personally I think there has to be an upper limit based on media desirable matchups: They'll want as many LA-NY matchups as they possibly can each season and the more divisions that are made, the less likely that is to occur. I think they'll cap the league at 36 teams for about a decade or two, allow teams to float to locations where they're stable, then either expand further, or institute pro-rel.
    That's what I would want to see. 36. 2 18 team conferences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeltfc91 View Post
    Imagine how competitive and normal an 18 team league would be with a 34 game season, everyone playing each other twice. It's very simple.

    ...
    Except for the travel time which makes 17 road trips that far horrendous.

    Geography alone precludes a Europeans style schedule. The best we can hope for is decently set up divisions/conferences that make some regional sense. They have already messed that up by putting Nashville in the West (should have been Chicago) - given 3 of the next 4 will be in the West, somebody had to move over for a few years but Nashville has a more natural rival potential with fellow Southern teams & Cinci then with KC. Chicago has more of a rivalry with KC & Minn.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I'm increasingly worried that expansion is more about collecting the fees than growing the league. I mean Charlotte? The league's domestic talent pool is also sufficiently diluted at this point.
    Expansion fees are not revenue to the league. Cincy just sold 20% of the club which values it at $500m Chicago Fire sold for more. So the $325m is right about the median of the league team valuations.

    When the league expands the original owners get a smaller share of current and future league revenue. The fee feels the gap. At one time Anschutz in LA was getting a quarter of all league revenue. Now he’s getting 1/30th. The difference is the fee. MLS is not relying on expansion to keep it afloat or using it for operating revenue.

    Oh and Charlotte is a great soccer city and they have a great owner. They got 7,000 season ticket deposits in 24 hours. It will be a massive success.
    Last edited by Gazza_55; 12-19-2019 at 11:42 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza_55 View Post
    Expansion fees are not revenue to the league. Cincy just sold 20% of the club which values it at $500m Chicago Fire sold for more. So the $325m is right about the median of the league team valuations.

    When the league expands the original owners get a smaller share of current and future league revenue. The fee feels the gap. At one time Anschutz in LA was getting a quarter of all league revenue. Now he’s getting 1/30th. The difference is the fee. MLS is not relying on expansion to keep it afloat or using it for operating revenue.

    Oh and Charlotte is a great soccer city and they have a great owner. They got 7,000 season ticket deposits in 24 hours. It will be a massive success.
    Are they planning to stay at the NFL stadium or build their own in a few years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    Are they planning to stay at the NFL stadium or build their own in a few years?
    NFL - the word from locals is its actually has more soccer friendly sightlines then NFL friendly. Its not a Gillette stadium sort of vibe. But its 20 years old & the ownership is looking to make a retractable roof Benz like thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza_55 View Post
    Expansion fees are not revenue to the league. Cincy just sold 20% of the club which values it at $500m Chicago Fire sold for more. So the $325m is right about the median of the league team valuations.

    When the league expands the original owners get a smaller share of current and future league revenue. The fee feels the gap. At one time Anschutz in LA was getting a quarter of all league revenue. Now he’s getting 1/30th. The difference is the fee. MLS is not relying on expansion to keep it afloat or using it for operating revenue.

    Oh and Charlotte is a great soccer city and they have a great owner. They got 7,000 season ticket deposits in 24 hours. It will be a massive success.
    Why aren't expansion fees revenue to the league?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Why aren't expansion fees revenue to the league?
    Is Gazza trying to say the expansion fee is buying share/fractional ownership of the MLS/SUM/god knows what portfolio? Then the more 'shares' you have, the more actual revenue you get like dividend distribution? If so, then it's capital injection, not revenue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekduck View Post
    Is Gazza trying to say the expansion fee is buying share/fractional ownership of the MLS/SUM/god knows what portfolio? Then the more 'shares' you have, the more actual revenue you get like dividend distribution? If so, then it's capital injection, not revenue.
    It's actual shares. MLS is a corporation. The expansion owner buys shares in MLS in a complicated agreement that also makes them the operator of a division of the corporation, their local MLS team. They have certain rights and responsibilities as an "owner/operator" (the legal term used in MLS documents). The expansion owner also gets real shares in the separate entity SUM (which is where the real money is made).

    What we don't know is if this is accomplished as an injection of capital to MLS, a proportionate sale of the other owner/operators' shares to the new owner/operator, or a combination of the two. If it's an injection, then the current owner/operators benefit from the new owner putting in more money than they had to (although the early investors covered so much of MLS' losses for years that they probably aren't benefiting as much as one would think). If it's a proportionate sale, then the current owner/operators would have a capital gain. We know for certain though that this isn't operating income for MLS.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-20-2019 at 01:26 PM.
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    There was a good article in the Athletic on this yesterday. Essentially how much of the expansion fee you get is determined on if you are fully vested or not. Your franchise is fully vested in MLS LLC once you have paid your full expansion fee or an agreed % as they are now generally paid in installments.

    Also teams not known for spending big $ splashing the cash this off season. Could it be linked to them getting big expansion fee checks?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    It's actual shares. MLS is a corporation. The expansion owner buys shares in MLS in a complicated agreement that also makes them the operator of a division of the corporation, their local MLS team. They have certain rights and responsibilities as an "owner/operator" (the legal term used in MLS documents). The expansion owner also gets real shares in the separate entity SUM (which is where the real money is made).

    What we don't know is if this is accomplished as an injection of capital to MLS, a proportionate sale of the other owner/operators' shares to the new owner/operator, or a combination of the two. If it's an injection, then the current owner/operators benefit from the new owner putting in more money than they had to (although the early investors covered so much of MLS' losses for years that they probably aren't benefiting as much as one would think). If it's a proportionate sale, then the current owner/operators would have a capital gain. We know for certain though that this isn't operating income for MLS.
    I'm thinking more or less it's issuing new shares for ownership and operation rights thus no actual sales transactions. No taxation headaches for the transaction, no revenue, no capital gains. Just put more money into the war chest. This dilutes (as it should be) all previous owners's cut of total revenue and artificially drives up per share prices and overall valuation of MLS/SUM year over year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekduck View Post
    I'm thinking more or less it's issuing new shares for ownership and operation rights thus no actual sales transactions. No taxation headaches for the transaction, no revenue, no capital gains. Just put more money into the war chest. This dilutes (as it should be) all previous owners's cut of total revenue and artificially drives up per share prices and overall valuation of MLS/SUM year over year.
    I think you are probably right, although I'm pretty sure they paid out at least some money in the past.

    They could in addition have different classes of shares to balance out ownership values in some desired way... but that would make it very complex... although judging by it's roster rules MLS does not shy away from complexity. That might be how they account for 'fully vested" owners getting a share of the fees while partially paid ones don't, all speculation of course.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-20-2019 at 04:32 PM.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post

    Also teams not known for spending big $ splashing the cash this off season. Could it be linked to them getting big expansion fee checks?
    It's certainly possible, but also with the Revs I think you are seeing the younger generation of Krafts deciding to take things in a new direction and Chicago changed ownership, so it might be unrelated.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    NFL - the word from locals is its actually has more soccer friendly sightlines then NFL friendly. Its not a Gillette stadium sort of vibe. But its 20 years old & the ownership is looking to make a retractable roof Benz like thing.
    Cool. And it's grass, not turf. Should be all right, then.

  17. #77
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    Jesus, what did Miami do, hire 8 year olds to design these?

    Last edited by ensco; 01-01-2020 at 09:20 PM.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Jesus, what did Miami they do, hire 8 year olds to design these?

    Sadly fairly typical of Adidas and Nike these days. Worst part is people love this shit, thinking its minimalist when its just lazy designing.
    Should be embarrassed. That whole organization looks awful atm.

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    I think part of the minimalist approach might be due to them adding a sponsor on the jersey. Will take up some of the blank space. Although the imprinted logo all over the shirt is an interesting touch. They should've used pink accents on the black jersey instead of white - would've been a more unique concept. I like the take on the adidas stripes on the shoulder on the black jersey. Different take.
    Last edited by rydermike; 01-01-2020 at 08:58 PM.

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    They might also be trying to increase the wearability of the jerseys. You wouldn't catch me wearing 95% of the kits in this league casually. I'd wear both of those Miami kits though.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    Sadly fairly typical of Adidas and Nike these days. Worst part is people love this shit, thinking its minimalist when its just lazy designing.
    Should be embarrassed. That whole organization looks awful atm.
    MLS Head office or someone involved in the design of jersey’s for this league is just too conservative. Rarely do we see anything where people laugh at how out there it is but often you get jersey’s that are mundane and boring.

    I think all the manufacturers have interesting stuff but it never seems to make its way to the field.

    For a league that has a young fan base this is an epic failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Jesus, what did Miami do, hire 8 year olds to design these?

    Giving how plain current red TFC jersey is...we shouldn't be laughing at other teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    MLS Head office or someone involved in the design of jersey’s for this league is just too conservative. Rarely do we see anything where people laugh at how out there it is but often you get jersey’s that are mundane and boring.

    I think all the manufacturers have interesting stuff but it never seems to make its way to the field.

    For a league that has a young fan base this is an epic failure.
    I think it's also how soccer has evolved to having new kits on such a frequent basis. It's impossible to do something interesting with a basic red shirt (or insert your team colour here) every two years. And in EPL it's a ridiculous yearly basis. How can you possibly continue to make it interesting?

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    It's dumb. This is branding 101. You need a colour. Soccer is about colour. We wear our colours. Or, if you are Juve, a design signature.

    The best have both. Example: the TFC Canada day home shirts, with the maple leaf shape/texture background, is the best jersey we have ever had.

    The people who approved this are overthinking it. I bet along the lines of.... “We can't have colours, because we are trying not to identify with any club in South America, so as to not push anyone away”

    But just black and white with nothing else going on is Germany. That could have worked in Cincinnati. But Miami?

    Moronic.

    (ps I get the wearability point above, that is real, I just don’t like it. Like I said, team support is about colours in this sport.)
    Last edited by ensco; 01-02-2020 at 12:26 PM.
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  25. #85
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    I bet our new road kid is just a boring flat white with the 3 red stripes on the one shoulder. Like a beer league kit.

    I wish the league would allow individual jersey deals but that will never happen.

  26. #86
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    People need to stop being so damn negative and already pouting about how poor a new kit is... before it’s even been announced. Relax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TFC View Post
    People need to stop being so damn negative and already pouting about how poor a new kit is... before it’s even been announced. Relax.
    Chill out is a good message. You could practice the lecture on your bathroom mirror.

    It’s an Internet forum on the off season.
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  28. #88
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    What bugs me most about the Miami kit is they have the inconic colour already - USE THAT FREAKING PINK, YA GOONS!!!

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Chill out is a good message. You could practice the lecture on your bathroom mirror.

    It’s an Internet forum on the off season.
    Writing all the nay-say about stuff that hasn’t even happened would actually be more constructive on the mirror than on the forum.

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    This might not be the appropriate thread for this question, but I worry if I put it somewhere else no one will see it:

    Anyone know what happened to the KJ and Caldwell podcast? For the last month they've only been talking about La Liga. Why no more EPL and MLS content?

 

 

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