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  1. #1951
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    Ignacio Piatti and his brother are different players but it's encouraging that Ignacio lit up the league between the ages of 30-34 and Paoblo was always considered better. The VV comparison is legit in that we're getting a huge discount because of his injury. Vazquez was worth 4 million in his season he was with us, we had him for 1.-2-1.5? Piatti probably plays 20 games minimum and I'm betting he provides more value at a third of the cost of Altidore. It's Altidore we should be worried about. Getting Piatti on a potentially low cost deal as a third DP, on a short term deal shouldn't concern us but using 6+ million on Altiodre when that could go to a player like a 29 year old Vela or Giovinco, is concerning. Over paying for Altidore is better then no one but it would be really nice to convert an Altidore sale into a Josef Martinez, Vela, Giovinco type. I'm remaining optimistic that the big picture is for Piatti to come in as the cost efficient #3 DP, Pozuelo as the #2 DP and Jozy moved to bring in a world class #1 DP
    Last edited by Defoe; 02-08-2020 at 02:35 AM.

  2. #1952
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think it's an overpay, but I really don’t know the player (btw nobody here does).

    Feels like a $500-750K player, to me.

    A similar, but younger player, Victor Rodriguez, got $1.1M a year and mostly disappointed in Seattle.

    Hope I am wrong.
    I'm not sure how you're seeing him at that level; the dude was on the Europa League team of the season in 2017 and tied for fourth in La Liga with Messi for assists. He was a fan favorite at Valencia (and KILLED on Football Manager).

    Skill wise, he's very much in the I. Piatti, Diego Valeri realm He's a former star in La Liga, a regular first-teamer at multiple clubs.

    That's way beyond 99% of this league's accomplishments.

    The two obvious questions to me are whether the knee is solid and whether he's lost a gear of speed. The slow comback (only 200 mins played this season) suggests maybe he's lost a gear of speed. I think it was really hurting and changing Seba's game that he'd slowed in the last year here.

    But I read some comments online from regular La Liga watchers and they said his game changed in two years before his injury, with him spending more time wide and delivering crosses and through balls. They made the point that he's an exceptional passer, apparently.

    I dunno, I think it's a tossup. But it's more the "he comes good or he's crocked" kind of tossup.

  3. #1953
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I'm not sure how you're seeing him at that level; the dude was on the Europa League team of the season in 2017 and tied for fourth in La Liga with Messi for assists. He was a fan favorite at Valencia (and KILLED on Football Manager).

    Skill wise, he's very much in the I. Piatti, Diego Valeri realm He's a former star in La Liga, a regular first-teamer at multiple clubs.

    That's way beyond 99% of this league's accomplishments.

    The two obvious questions to me are whether the knee is solid and whether he's lost a gear of speed. The slow comback (only 200 mins played this season) suggests maybe he's lost a gear of speed. I think it was really hurting and changing Seba's game that he'd slowed in the last year here.

    But I read some comments online from regular La Liga watchers and they said his game changed in two years before his injury, with him spending more time wide and delivering crosses and through balls. They made the point that he's an exceptional passer, apparently.

    I dunno, I think it's a tossup. But it's more the "he comes good or he's crocked" kind of tossup.
    The way he was announced suggests that the club isn’t fully confident in his health.

    He is clearly highly skilled and accomplished, and Poz, Jozy, Oso and the Captain can play some nice football. There is some possibility here

  4. #1954
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    This is 4-3-3 all the way, for sure. Jozy in the middle, Piatti on the left, and the right is a bit of a toss up (Gallardo, DeLeon, Endoh, Shaffelburg if he and Piatti switch, even Osorio maybe). Pozuelo at the tip of a midfield 3, probably with Bradley and Delgado.

    We're thin at centre forward, it remains to be seen if Vanney elects to put Mullins or Akinola there or use Pozuelo as a false 9 again when Jozy is inevitably injured.
    In other words a totally unbalanced side. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

  5. #1955
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    The way he was announced suggests that the club isn’t fully confident in his health.

    He is clearly highly skilled and accomplished, and Poz, Jozy, Oso and the Captain can play some nice football. There is some possibility here
    That’s all we need. Two injury prone DPs. Manning and Curtis should be shown the door yesterday. Bringing in someone who is a risk is just utter incompetence. You can’t gamble with Jozy in the squad, who is likely to miss half the season through injury, and only Akinola and Mullens as back up. I’m still waiting for them to replace Séba, like for like

  6. #1956
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I'm not sure how you're seeing him at that level; the dude was on the Europa League team of the season in 2017 and tied for fourth in La Liga with Messi for assists. He was a fan favorite at Valencia (and KILLED on Football Manager).

    Skill wise, he's very much in the I. Piatti, Diego Valeri realm He's a former star in La Liga, a regular first-teamer at multiple clubs.

    That's way beyond 99% of this league's accomplishments.

    The two obvious questions to me are whether the knee is solid and whether he's lost a gear of speed. The slow comback (only 200 mins played this season) suggests maybe he's lost a gear of speed. I think it was really hurting and changing Seba's game that he'd slowed in the last year here.

    But I read some comments online from regular La Liga watchers and they said his game changed in two years before his injury, with him spending more time wide and delivering crosses and through balls. They made the point that he's an exceptional passer, apparently.

    I dunno, I think it's a tossup. But it's more the "he comes good or he's crocked" kind of tossup.
    You’re not a Liga star if you play for Espanyol for crying out loud. That’s a contradiction in terms. I really wish people would stop using Football/Championship Manager as a reference. It’s only a game.

  7. #1957
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealG-TFC View Post
    No comparison, the biggest team he ever played for was arguably Zaragoza which is now in the second division. I get that people are pretty foreign to La Liga around these parts but the likes of Valencia, and to a lesser degree Espanyol, shouldn't be doubted.
    I am not a huge follower of La Liga but I have no confusion about Valencia or Espanyol. I have been to a game at Espanyol.

    I stand by my statement. Call me crazy, but I think DP level wingers should have some pace.

    I want to like the player. It could easily work out. If he is not too slow, not injury prone, and not going to feel that this crazy, frustrating league is beneath him.

    But this doesn’t impress me vis a vis Curtis’ skill in finding/negotiating DPs. Not off the bat anyway.

    Let's face facts. They cheaped out on this one. (Ironically by maybe overspending for the player they got!)

    I would love to hear Bradley speak. He was part of making room for this move. Is this what he had in mind?
    Last edited by ensco; 02-08-2020 at 07:17 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  8. #1958
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I am not a huge follower of La Liga but I have no confusion about Valencia or Espanyol. I have been to a game at Espanyol.

    I stand by my statement. Call me crazy, but I think DP level wingers should have some pace.

    I want to like the player. It could easily work out. If he is not too slow, not injury prone, and not going to feel that this crazy, frustrating league is beneath.

    But it doesn’t impress me vis a vis Curtis’ skill in finding/negotiating DPs. Not off the bat anyway.
    I am being repetitive, but if they were thrilled with this signing they would not have announced it on a Friday at 5:30 PM. That is the time that bad news is announced, not good news.

    That tells me they are taking a big risk. However, I am excited to see him on the pitch, excited to see “fit” Jozy, rested Poz, Oso, snarky Marky and Fraser.

    Hope the LA games are webcast.

  9. #1959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    Ignacio Piatti and his brother are different players but it's encouraging that Ignacio lit up the league between the ages of 30-34 and Paoblo was always considered better.
    pretty sure Ignacio’s only brother’s name is Ezequiel... but I could be wrong...

  10. #1960
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think it's an overpay, but I really don’t know the player (btw nobody here does).

    Feels like a $500-750K player, to me.

    A similar, but younger player, Victor Rodriguez, got $1.1M a year and mostly disappointed in Seattle.

    Hope I am wrong.
    No one knows a 10 year La Liga regular? Similar level to Victor Rodríguez? Just because your footballing knowledge is so incredibly limited doesn’t mean everyone’s is.

    This is El Shaarawy on a TAM deal level of stupidity.

    Try watching some world football some time and your takes won’t be so ridiculous.

  11. #1961
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    The negativity on this board over the last month or two is staggering. I'm glad we made MLS cup last year, imagine how the knives would be out if 2019 had been a bad season on the pitch! Chill out guys, wait and see, it might actually turn out to be okay!!

  12. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomLawrence View Post
    No one knows a 10 year La Liga regular? Similar level to Victor Rodríguez? Just because your footballing knowledge is so incredibly limited doesn’t mean everyone’s is.

    This is El Shaarawy on a TAM deal level of stupidity.

    Try watching some world football some time and your takes won’t be so ridiculous.
    I am fine with taking stick. These are just opinions.

    But what is this, who exactly are you?

    I swear half your 60 posts have been these kinds of out-of-the-gate nasty takedowns directed personally at me. Over and over again. How about you find something else to occupy your time? Like seriously, stay out of my posts, I am tired of it. Go take a dump somewhere else.

    Yeah, btw I am pretty sure people aren’t very familiar with the canon of Pablo Piatti over here. And yeah, I am pretty comfortable with the opinion that a 27 year old minor La Liga winger is not that different in value than a 31 year old with a major injury history but a better pedigree.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-08-2020 at 08:28 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  13. #1963
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    Quote Originally Posted by magmadragon View Post
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no cap relief for a buyout yeah? It's more so to dump a player who you don't want around the locker room and free up a roster spot.

    In any case free agent Zavaleta with be a thing in the future. I hope.....

    We are still kinda thin at CF, LB, and CB to my eyes. CF and CB has been a known issue for a couple years now.
    Yes I think there is cap relief for a buyout.

    I agree on the thin spots you mentioned. With Moor gone, we need another Ciman-level CB. Omar and/or Mavinga will miss some games due to injury / fatigue. Zavaleta should be bought out. I don't think he's as bad as his reputation here; he was actually quite decent up until the beginning of 2018. But he desperately needs a change of scenery & reboot.

    I don't think Auro is enough both as starting RB, and backup LB. And CF weakness is obvious. I'm afraid we're going to see Pozuelo stuck up there again, getting hammered by opposing CB brutes, and not in the middle of the pitch setting up plays like he should be.

  14. #1964
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think it's an overpay, but I really don’t know the player (btw nobody here does).

    Feels like a $500-750K player, to me.

    A similar, but younger player, Victor Rodriguez, got $1.1M a year and mostly disappointed in Seattle.

    Hope I am wrong.
    You know he has 300 apps in the top ranked league in Europe and therefore arguably the toughest league on the planet, right? People here are acting like we signed some prospect who was half decent in Greece. Last year's DPs between them couldn't combine careers and come up with the resume this guy does, in fact beyond Vela there isnt really anyone in the league with a euro career like his that I can think of.
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 02-08-2020 at 08:40 AM.

  15. #1965
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    We really need a solid CB
    If Jozy leaves. We should be spending money there. Or on a TAM deal for CB
    Just my personal opinion, that alot of people will disagree

  16. #1966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    Ignacio Piatti and his brother are different players but it's encouraging that Ignacio lit up the league between the ages of 30-34 and Paoblo was always considered better. The VV comparison is legit in that we're getting a huge discount because of his injury. Vazquez was worth 4 million in his season he was with us, we had him for 1.-2-1.5? Piatti probably plays 20 games minimum and I'm betting he provides more value at a third of the cost of Altidore. It's Altidore we should be worried about. Getting Piatti on a potentially low cost deal as a third DP, on a short term deal shouldn't concern us but using 6+ million on Altiodre when that could go to a player like a 29 year old Vela or Giovinco, is concerning. Over paying for Altidore is better then no one but it would be really nice to convert an Altidore sale into a Josef Martinez, Vela, Giovinco type. I'm remaining optimistic that the big picture is for Piatti to come in as the cost efficient #3 DP, Pozuelo as the #2 DP and Jozy moved to bring in a world class #1 DP
    Yeah, they’re not related, bruv!

  17. #1967
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    You know he has 300 apps in the top ranked league in Europe and therefore arguably the toughest league on the planet, right? People here are acting like we signed some prospect who was half decent in Greece. Last year's DPs between them couldn't combine careers and come up with the resume this guy does, in fact beyond Vela there isnt really anyone in the league with a euro career like his that I can think of.
    You could be right. You have also described someone that looks pretty much like pre-TFC career Laurent Robert.

    Any criticism I have is of the price. He is clearly a desirable MLS player. Not convinced this is a great use of the DP slot.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    You could be right. You have also described someone that looks pretty much like pre-TFC career Laurent Robert.

    Any criticism I have is of the price. He is clearly a desirable MLS player. Not convinced this is a great use of the DP slot.

    I think he will be many times better than Benezet, and it is short term. Injury and has his speed diminished are fair concerns. El Sharaway would have been awesome but realistically was he even available. As pointed out, we have two Roster spots left, it would be good to know what we have left to spend and are we finished or still looking.

    A lot of unknowns still in this lineup, we could be awesome or ??

    But at least we are talking about the signing and not the whatifs.... as of today we are better than the way we ended last year, we are rested and we have a good schedule for the first part of the season.

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    Just bring on the 29th at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    You know he has 300 apps in the top ranked league in Europe and therefore arguably the toughest league on the planet, right? People here are acting like we signed some prospect who was half decent in Greece. Last year's DPs between them couldn't combine careers and come up with the resume this guy does, in fact beyond Vela there isnt really anyone in the league with a euro career like his that I can think of.
    Not to mention before his injury (same one VV had ) was named to the team of the year in laliga with the likes of Alonso Messi CR7 Not a bad list to be on. Is it the best pickup. No. But a good one for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    You could be right. You have also described someone that looks pretty much like pre-TFC career Laurent Robert.

    Any criticism I have is of the price. He is clearly a desirable MLS player. Not convinced this is a great use of the DP slot.
    The question mark is injury and what he has left in the tank from his injury history. If he's fresh and at his best we're underpaying for him and by a large margin if you use Jozy, Pozuelo or last contract Bradley as a barometer since he has more pedigree then them all. If he's lacking the pace he had and missing alot then yeah we're tying up a DP slot we could better use elsewhere. So on the balance of it, I think we're paying a nice amount for a gamble with a ceiling that is league MVP but using a 1+1 contract to hedge our bets if he shows up and physically can't do it

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    He’s older, has been injured and his last two years have been a write off. And knee injuries are the worst - players often don’t come back near the same level. So there is a lot to worry about despite his obvious pedigree.

    Have to agree with Mighty DM - burying it at 6:00 on a Friday night is significant.

    I’m looking forward to seeing him though. Hard to get the level of football intelligence he’ll bring. Hopefully a risk worth taking. The contract length at least doesn’t lock us in if he doesn’t work out.

  23. #1973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    He’s older, has been injured and his last two years have been a write off. And knee injuries are the worst - players often don’t come back near the same level. So there is a lot to worry about despite his obvious pedigree.

    Have to agree with Mighty DM - burying it at 6:00 on a Friday night is significant.

    I’m looking forward to seeing him though. Hard to get the level of football intelligence he’ll bring. Hopefully a risk worth taking. The contract length at least doesn’t lock us in if he doesn’t work out.
    No it's not. Espanyol gave him till the end of the week to find a new team and he wants to get to California quickly. It's not a bleeding conspiracy

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    Signing Piatti on a 1+1 is pretty clearly a panic signing and was definitely not their first choice. That being said, i'd rather they do this than nothing and if he can stay healthy our XI looks really good.

    He could come out of this season with double digit goals and assists imo. That really wouldn't surprise me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    No it's not. Espanyol gave him till the end of the week to find a new team and he wants to get to California quickly. It's not a bleeding conspiracy
    If this was Giovinco they wouldn’t have done it this way regardless of when he needed to sign. In the PR world Friday at 6:00 is what you do to do under-hype/bury.
    Last edited by Canary10; 02-08-2020 at 10:25 AM.

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    In the realm of MLS, this guy has more potential then most DP's.

    For TFC, its plan C, with a focus on the early part of the season rather then waiting and understanding that he won't be a DP next year, if he works out.


    Going into this off season, we all thought TFC were going to go big prime of their career - they wanted to but the ne'er do wells of MLS wouldn't let them. Having to realign plans mid break, there are worse choices then a guy who works hard but has been injured who is only really a DP for this year.

    ********

    Next year's off season is going to see a LOT of turnover from this squad. The next young DP is going to be the key to 2021-2027 for this team. Got to get that one right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    If this was Giovinco they wouldn’t have done it this way regardless of when he needed to sign.
    What exactly is it you think is happening here?

    Politicians release bad news on a Friday evening so the dominance over the newscycle will happen at a non peak time and hopefully blow over by Monday, so all the negative press they're eating reaches the smallest audience

    TFC would have to sign Messi to come close to being anything more than a niche news story in any context and this signing hasn't produced any kind of sea of negative press. Can you tell me exactly what it is you think TFC has achieved by announcing when they did and what they would have suffered if they announced on Monday afternoon?

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    He did come cheap but I would rather have a cheap, short term option like Piatti with something to prove as a 30 year old than spend $7M on an almost as injured, older, career bench player like Chicarito.

    L.A. get a lot of applause for that deal but it's just as risky and longer term. I think we'll make out good on this deal but I'd like one of those other two roster spots filled with a versatile defender before the season starts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    What exactly is it you think is happening here?

    Politicians release bad news on a Friday evening so the dominance over the newscycle will happen at a non peak time and hopefully blow over by Monday, so all the negative press they're eating reaches the smallest audience

    TFC would have to sign Messi to come close to being anything more than a niche news story in any context and this signing hasn't produced any kind of sea of negative press. Can you tell me exactly what it is you think TFC has achieved by announcing when they did and what they would have suffered if they announced on Monday afternoon?
    They minimize any hype over it. They downplay. Simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    They minimize any hype over it. They downplay. Simple.
    What hype? And what would be different on Monday? And why would they want to minimize hype? Around .1% of the population of Toronto is even aware that this signing happened. There is no hype regardless of when it's announced
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 02-08-2020 at 10:34 AM.

 

 

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