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  1. #2251
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    I don't believe that Jozy is really injured...
    ...
    ...
    I suspect the reason is to make the games more competitive. So that San Jose doesn't lose their home opener really badly.


    Really?

  2. #2252
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Portu is obviously correct in his view of what the team was last year. We were a mid table team that lucked out.

    I don’t agree with him, but he has a point. We could be in serious decline here, with last year's MLS Cup clouding our view.
    Guess the second half of the season was just one huge lucky spell as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I think this is the last time I’m going to try and explain how I see this because I’ve done it a few times.

    It is not about making finals, it’s about playing in a way and building a team that can reasonably be expected to perform in a way that gets us there. We are not doing that. We lucked our way into MLS Cup 2019. We shouldn’t be lucky to get to MLS Cup, we should think we’re unlucky if we don’t get there.

    And we are so far removed from 2016/17 TFC. If you put weight on making those finals and winning 2017, then you need to consider that we were objectively shit in 2018. Furthermore, you must consider that we were objectively shit for much of 2019 as well. That’s all. I love making finals and winning things and everyone involved deserves kudos. But when I (armchair) evaluate the team I think about how we might do in the near future (1~3 years). What I don’t do is rest on the laurels of years past.
    This is fundamentally flawed because

    a) Like it or not MLS is designed to reward teams that treat the season like a marathon and peak at the right time.

    b) We live in a what have you done for me lately world. I'm sure at work your performance is not evaluated on what you will probably do in the next few years.

    As many have pointed out - just be glad you've been able to witness the success that we've had. You'd think this was a Leafs board the way this team gets shit on.

  4. #2254
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    Anyone have a complete injury status update list?

    Michael Bradley - 3-4 months
    Pablo Piatti - 3-4 weeks
    Jozy Altidore - 1 week?

    Is that all

  5. #2255
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Guess the second half of the season was just one huge lucky spell as well?
    More like the last quarter plus playoffs.

  6. #2256
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeltfc91 View Post
    Anyone have a complete injury status update list?

    Michael Bradley - 3-4 months
    Pablo Piatti - 3-4 weeks
    Jozy Altidore - 1 week?

    Is that all
    I think Jozy is just a load management thing. He will probably play. Every time he sits out a load management match this season I think they'll say something like neck stiffness or sore hip. Nothing to do with his usual leg muscle issues to raise alarms but something minor and out of blue.

    As for Piatti, he just started training a little more than halfway through our pre-season and another 3 weeks would give him the equivalent of a full pre-season and that would make sense with a player coming over and coming off injuries.

  7. #2257
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Guess the second half of the season was just one huge lucky spell as well?
    Nope. We needed that just to be mid table.

    Going into last week of the season we were fifth in the east, 12th overall.

    We only wound up fourth in the east because of an incredibly lucky result in last game of season.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  8. #2258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think Jozy is just a load management thing. He will probably play. Every time he sits out a load management match this season I think they'll say something like neck stiffness or sore hip. Nothing to do with his usual leg muscle issues to raise alarms but something minor and out of blue.
    Who would that benefit, though? I don't think many players - let alone an outspoken dude like Jozy - are going to stay quiet and let the club form a narrative of incessant injury troubles rather than a scheduled recovery routine unless these ailments are legit. Can't imagine the PA would think much of that, either.

  9. #2259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Gotcha.

    If I'm understanding your view, in your opinion the team needs to consistently win throughout the season, and have a long term trajectory that looks like future winning (by which I think you mean great players who don't get injured).

    I guess you would also see Seattle as an anomaly because they are shit every year then go on a run at the end of each season.

    I don't see it the same way, and that's ok. Football is a game of opinions. I'm pretty optimistic because I think TFC will do well in the MLS context over the next few years.

    OTOH, I don't believe any MLS side, including TFC, will win the CCL until salaries go up significantly.
    This is Football Man! I watched Iceland knock off England!!! An MLS team can win but not by signing injured DPS and not by extending contracts to oft injured players. ( SEE TFC) WE were a kick away two seasons ago! Give us 3 in their prime DPS and I dont mean 1.2 mil a year guys, then we can talk.

  10. #2260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    Who would that benefit, though? I don't think many players - let alone an outspoken dude like Jozy - are going to stay quiet and let the club form a narrative of incessant injury troubles rather than a scheduled recovery routine unless these ailments are legit. Can't imagine the PA would think much of that, either.
    I guarantee Jozy has a sore something after every match. Most players do so it isn't a lie per se. What it does is keep the media and supporters from crying about load management incessantly. For example, take a look at what the Clippers do when Kawhi rests this year. They mention sore knees, muscle fatigue, etc instead of just saying load management.

  11. #2261
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Nope. We needed that just to be mid table.

    Going into last week of the season we were fifth in the east, 12th overall.

    We only wound up fourth in the east because of an incredibly lucky result in last game of season.
    Wait... didn’t we win a match to get there too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TFC View Post
    Wait... didn’t we win a match to get there too?
    Sure. But it should not have mattered. DCU had Cincinnati at home, and had to beat them. Cincinnati went down two men by halftime. DCU odds in game became 1 to 8 that they would win. But I guess Cinci had a Zamboni driver in goal.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  13. #2263
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    Quote Originally Posted by flambe View Post
    Really?
    TFC saw the backlash against Vanney when he sat the starters for the first half in the Houston game
    The hatred felt for the team after that game was something else
    They will never make that mistake again
    If they want to sit a player for any reason they will say he is injured

  14. #2264
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Sure. But it should not have mattered. DCU had Cincinnati at home, and had to beat them. Cincinnati went down two men by halftime. DCU odds in game became 1 to 8 that they would win. But I guess Cinci had a Zamboni driver in goal.
    Even in the playoffs I’d say we were the second best team against both NYCFC and Atlanta. I’m obviously not complaining that we made the final but that papers over the fact that we weren’t an upper tier team and have a little ways to go this year to get there. And yeah we were lucky we got that shocking Cincinnati win or we’d have played DC away and the whole season could have looked much different.

  15. #2265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Even in the playoffs I’d say we were the second best team against both NYCFC and Atlanta. I’m obviously not complaining that we made the final but that papers over the fact that we weren’t an upper tier team and have a little ways to go this year to get there. And yeah we were lucky we got that shocking Cincinnati win or we’d have played DC away and the whole season could have looked much different.
    Atlanta maybe but not NYCFC. We controlled that almost completely but we let them back in it with our typical half time-ish swoon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Atlanta maybe but not NYCFC. We controlled that almost completely but we let them back in it with our typical half time-ish swoon.
    Ha, maybe it was just my nerves and the feeling that we were going to blow it.
    Last edited by Canary10; 02-25-2020 at 09:59 AM.

  17. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Ha, maybe it was just my nerves and the feeling that we were going to blow it.
    I think a lot of people do this actually.

    Firstly, as pointed out many times earlier in this thread , we aren't the 2017 TFC anymore. We aren't blowing teams out of the water and not hitting teams with quick counters after pressing in midfield. We have a somewhat different roster and a change in formation so that's expected. I find overall we've become very Bradley-like. The team is basically like him; workmanlike, dependable, tough, and with a "just get the job done" kind of mentality. This is our style and it was there even in 2016 & 2017 at times when we got pragmatic with possession. This can lead to people's eyes seeing us as squeeking out wins or being lucky but that's our way now. We grind out results and minus some individual acts of brilliance, this will be how we do things no matter what DPs play or which new ones are brought in.

    I don't like comparing TFC to teams in other leagues but Liverpool is doing the same thing this year. They aren't blowing teams away and to a lot of eyes they can be seen as lucky or fortunate to keep winning but they keep winning and that's what counts. Difference is that they have a lot of guys capable of that individual moment of brilliance and we only have a couple so we need to keep that workmanlike attitude going for 90 minutes per match or we'll be in trouble.

    This TFC probably won't be pretty on the eyes as often as people would like but if we win, who cares?
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 02-25-2020 at 10:24 AM.

  18. #2268
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    My only thought on the above would be, for team that has a top payroll, shouldn’t the mentality and ability of the players be more than workman-like effort? The latter sounds more like something for the whitecaps or FC Dallas who you know won’t spend the money.

    If we don’t have the talent on this team to feel like a top side we should ask why. Maybe the dominance is not at a 2017 vs. rest of the league level but at least feeling like we’re as good talent wise as anybody we face and far better than most.

  19. #2269
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    So just to confirm I'm not missing anything here, our transfer activity for this off-season consists of:

    OUT:
    Drew Moor
    Jay Chapman
    Ashtone Morgan
    Ryan Telfer
    Aidan Daniels
    Michael Bradley (4 months due to injury)

    IN:
    Pablo Piatti (already injured)
    a couple of TFCII kids and a Superdraft in Achara


    SO underwhelming...

  20. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by flambe View Post
    So just to confirm I'm not missing anything here, our transfer activity for this off-season consists of:

    OUT:
    Drew Moor
    Jay Chapman
    Ashtone Morgan
    Ryan Telfer
    Aidan Daniels
    Michael Bradley (4 months due to injury)

    IN:
    Pablo Piatti (already injured)
    a couple of TFCII kids and a Superdraft in Achara


    SO underwhelming...
    Well Bradley cannot be put on the OUT list. He hasn't been transferred out. Secondly, what's your point? Can you seriously say any of the others on the OUT list should have been retained? Telfer possibly although hard to say from the outside, but he showed some promise. I think I'd have Piatti over Telfer though. Moor was great in the past, but age has caught up with him. So why not give the kids a go?

  21. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by flambe View Post
    So just to confirm I'm not missing anything here, our transfer activity for this off-season consists of:

    OUT:
    Drew Moor
    Jay Chapman
    Ashtone Morgan
    Ryan Telfer
    Aidan Daniels
    Michael Bradley (4 months due to injury)

    IN:
    Pablo Piatti (already injured)
    a couple of TFCII kids and a Superdraft in Achara


    SO underwhelming...
    other then bradley..the out list is underwhelming

  22. #2272
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    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Red View Post
    Well Bradley cannot be put on the OUT list. He hasn't been transferred out. Secondly, what's your point? Can you seriously say any of the others on the OUT list should have been retained? Telfer possibly although hard to say from the outside, but he showed some promise. I think I'd have Piatti over Telfer though. Moor was great in the past, but age has caught up with him. So why not give the kids a go?
    Bradley won't miss 4 months of the season. It was 3-4 months from the time of surgery which was 6 months before the season starts. I'd rather have Piatti and Achara over those guys who barely played last year.

  23. #2273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikmacdo View Post
    Bradley won't miss 4 months of the season. It was 3-4 months from the time of surgery which was 6 months before the season starts. I'd rather have Piatti and Achara over those guys who barely played last year.
    He had the surgery last month. Not after MLS cup.

  24. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    He had the surgery last month. Not after MLS cup.
    Exactly so start the 3-4 months from January. He could be back in May and miss only 2 months of the season.

  25. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikmacdo View Post
    Exactly so start the 3-4 months from January. He could be back in May and miss only 2 months of the season.
    You said the surgery was 6 months before the season starts....

  26. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think a lot of people do this actually.

    Firstly, as pointed out many times earlier in this thread , we aren't the 2017 TFC anymore. We aren't blowing teams out of the water and not hitting teams with quick counters after pressing in midfield. We have a somewhat different roster and a change in formation so that's expected. I find overall we've become very Bradley-like. The team is basically like him; workmanlike, dependable, tough, and with a "just get the job done" kind of mentality. This is our style and it was there even in 2016 & 2017 at times when we got pragmatic with possession. This can lead to people's eyes seeing us as squeeking out wins or being lucky but that's our way now. We grind out results and minus some individual acts of brilliance, this will be how we do things no matter what DPs play or which new ones are brought in.

    I don't like comparing TFC to teams in other leagues but Liverpool is doing the same thing this year. They aren't blowing teams away and to a lot of eyes they can be seen as lucky or fortunate to keep winning but they keep winning and that's what counts. Difference is that they have a lot of guys capable of that individual moment of brilliance and we only have a couple so we need to keep that workmanlike attitude going for 90 minutes per match or we'll be in trouble.

    This TFC probably won't be pretty on the eyes as often as people would like but if we win, who cares?
    This is fair. But at the end of the season, playing our very best, we were a top four team at most. That was great and I loved the run but how do we become clearly a top team is the question for me. Are we that top four team who just needs a tweak, or are we the team that for a long time was going to miss the playoffs and needs Jozy and Piatti to be on the field all the time jus to complete?

  27. #2277
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    T. Are we that top four team who just needs a tweak, or are we the team that for a long time was going to miss the playoffs and needs Jozy and Piatti to be on the field all the time jus to complete?
    I think the good part of the workmanlike mentality is that we're survived most injury layoffs pretty well and it's that factor that leads to us being considered "deep". We're mostly like Seattle in our approach. They do a similar thing and they kind of scrub through every season even though they always have solid DPs but when it counts, they're always in the cup mix. Until there is more value to the Shield I can see us just trying for a home field position in the playoffs.

  28. #2278
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    Quote Originally Posted by flambe View Post
    So just to confirm I'm not missing anything here, our transfer activity for this off-season consists of:

    OUT:
    Drew Moor
    Jay Chapman
    Ashtone Morgan
    Ryan Telfer
    Aidan Daniels
    Michael Bradley (4 months due to injury)

    IN:
    Pablo Piatti (already injured)
    a couple of TFCII kids and a Superdraft in Achara


    SO underwhelming...
    You’re right the out list is very underwhelming. A bunch of players who offered nothing and Michael Bradley who hasn’t even left.

    We’ve replaced a bunch of old TFCII players who weren’t good enough with new young ones with more potential. Sounds good to me. And we’ve lost Moor who was great at his best but barely been involved for a while now and isn’t needed in the slightest bit.

    So in conclusion:

    Out:
    Nothing of value.

    In:
    An experienced La Liga winger
    Highly rated youth players.

    Doesn’t look too bad.

  29. #2279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    You said the surgery was 6 months before the season starts....
    my bad i meant 6 weeks.

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    We need to start a tfc 2020 season projection

 

 

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