If we do not make the playoffs- the house has to be swept clean.
I am a Carver supporter, and I do not dislike Mo. I like what Carver is trying to do and I like his passion, and methods. Mo I am less sure of, he seems to deliver, but often it seems that he does so to late.
However, despite my support of Carver, if we do not make the playoffs I hope that the entire football operations side gets replaced.
How do I put this... I COMPLETELY DISAGREE...
Its Carver's first year, with a team that had a huge turnover... If we are to fire coaches and managers this quickly, we'll NEVER be successfull...
Building a winner takes time... That doesn't mean we have to be content with losing, but success does not happen overnight...
Carts...
"...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."
What is this, the Leafs thread?
"How long do we give Mo and Carver to build a top of the table team?", should be the real focus of the thread.
I would say 2 more years after the conclusion of this one. 1 if the team performs as poorly as this year..next season (aka performing poorly by achieving no trophies in the CCL, lack of offense, lack of leadership, poor tactics...etc).
Mo seems to be on a decent track with the stockpiling of picks...and the turf issue has really hindered his ability to sign people. On the other hand...his scope for talent searching is too limited. He definitely needs to bring in a South American scout full time. Just hire somone who's already down there. Same goes for Africa. Let's be creative here.
Carver is shortening his leash by his own doing with his constant tirades and belittling of MLS opposition. He needs to learn the league a bit better and revise his tactics for the players he has and the opposition he faces.
Last edited by LucaGol; 08-05-2008 at 11:25 AM.
I like how pretty well whatever opinion is expressed it is guaranteed someone is going to make reference to the Maple Leafs.Originally Posted by Bars92
Person A - 'Mo has to go!'
Person B - 'What is this the Leafs thread? Have patience, the team needs time''
or
Person A - 'Have patience. The team needs to grow and it takes time'
Person B - 'Lets not be Leaf fans and sit by accepting mediocrity!'
Mo said he had a 5 year plan in the beginning. I said I would hold him to that plan.
I stick by my words. If you go firing your coach/gm/etc every year or two you'll never have the confidence or chemistry that gets built up over time and the relationships that coaches build with the players.
It is not a leafs thread, I am not a hockey fan. But at some point you have to recognize that maybe you are building something the wrong way. While I trully like Carver, the reality is that the results are the bottom line. If we do not make the playoffs we are clearly not headed in the right direction, and we have to reset and start over. Making the playoffs in this league should not be very hard. It is a shit league, a have decent roster, with a half decent system should do it. I think that we have both at this time. However, results speak for themsleves. You have to set goal and when they are not met you have to suffer the consequences. The goal is the playoffs, if it is not met there has to be consequences.
Shaughno, I would agree with you, if at the end of the day there was overall growth and improvemnt, the sesults at this point do not point to that. [ Again I like the system and the players better then last years, but the result are prety damn similar to similar for my liking]
Last edited by trane; 08-05-2008 at 11:26 AM.
In your title, by sweeping the house clean, do you mean tearing down bmo, making a new better stadium with grass and a roof?
In the history of team sports, what team was a "world beater" after 1-1/2 years?
Loyal - Win, lose or draw!
Weston, Ontario
^^ Chicago Fire won the Supporters Shield and MLS Cup in their first season I do belive.
^ I am not expecting a world beater, just improvement in the results.
Ironically, through this statement....you seem to be making the same mistake as John Carver has.
The MLS is not a shit league where playoffs is guaranteed. We've been taught that lesson time and again. Take just last game for example....FC Dallas...a struggling team in the West...came onto our park...and basically schooled us.
Every team, every game has to be taken with the utmost seriousness and preparation..same goes for USL competition.
You start to make an ass of yourself when you start taking this for granted by underestimating opposition.
yeah i know
Bullshit. I see it with my eyes every week it is a shit league, you can convince yourself overwise all you want but in reality, it is a poorly played game. No game nor any team shoudl be ever be taken for granted, but shity parity should not be taken for quality. This is not a quality league. Anyway I do not give a shit about LA and NY nor any other city. I give a shit about Toronto. I give a shit about putting a competitive team on the field to represent our city. We did so at home in the early part of the season, we have failed to do so on the road in 1 1/2 years, and we have been disapointg at home in the past strech. I will tell you what I see. The truth is the truth. The MLS is shit, and despite this we are failing to compete. It is disapointing.
Carver is not making a mistake in his approach, but his team is failing to deliver on the field. Unfotunalty he will have to pay the price if this continues. That is the reality of being a coach.
If this team continues to play like absolute crap, then I seriously think change needs to be considered.
yeah it's only the 2nd year
ok, how about just a MLS and USL beater. is that too much to ask
One reason why the Leafs continue to suck is that the fans refuse to let them rebuild. They must play their best team on the night or face the wrath of the call in shows and message boards. The fans and management have no long term view. They have had 3 losing seasons without developing a single worthwhile prospect.
Mo and Carver have had 2 losing seasons but have developed the team well. Edu is coming along as is Wynne, Valez and Ricketts while Smith will need some more time. We have drafted well to get 3 first rounders next year and traded for Ibbee. For an expansion team they have done very well.
Now stop your whining and face facts, we won't win the Cup next year either. It takes time and patience, if you don't have either stop wasting our time on the message boards. Go follow Bareclona, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Chelsea or Bayern Munich if you demand results right away. You are supporting an expansion team and it comes with the territory.
We shouldn't be demanding a cup right away all we should expect is improvement and by any measure we have had that this season.
^ Who asked for them to win the Cup? The goal is making the playoffs. They have to achieve it.
I blame a lot of our problems on our rubber field. How many potential players have we lost because they didn't want to play on our rubber field? We lost Ronnie O'Brien because of the rubber field. How many injuries or extra fatigue have we had due to our rubber field? Had Chad Barrett been playing on grass on that hot day, would he have gotten a muscle cramp on his first game, or scored a goal on opening day?
We do need a sweeping.. the rubber field right into lake Ontario.
won't someone think of the fish!
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There must be a course that teaches the mystical 5 year plan thing. It's used everywhere. It's designed to ensure employment for the muppet who spouts it.
Let's face it, should we expect a championship team in the 1st 2 - 3 years? No>
Should we expect the play-offs this year? Yes.
Should we expect more decent signings than we've had? Yes.
Carver's one of the positives this year, Mo's feet dragging is a negative. Speed it up Mo, or the play-offs will not happen
Not that I've written this year off, but next year will be the watermark. This year and last year were interrupted by intensive international competition and injuries to key players. AFAIK next year only has the African cup of nations (which will hurt New England more than anyone!). I also expect that we will be bringing in some striking talent via the draft.
Having a single team together for a season with depth up front should give us a clearer picture of where we're going. Except for the striker situation I would say that Mo and John have delivered on promises to improve. (though, I am surprised at how hard it has been to sign a quality striker).
Glad to see alot of common sense in this thread.
Maybe Barrett could have benefitted from Paul Winsper's training regiments in dealing with the pitch. I still think the turf is shit but so far this season I think Barrett is the only TFC casualty.
As for the housekeeping, I am all for allowing Carver and Mo time to get themselves sorted. The first grouping of home games was encouraging but perhaps the exception and not the rule this season. With another year under their belts I think it will serve them well. I also fully agree with expanding the scouting parameters...South America and Africa have been mentioned, but why not Asia, more specifically Japan?
Proud Supporter of: FC Bayern München, AIK Solna, Toronto FC, Nottingham Forest FC
Ok, I hope you and Carver continue on with the attitude of under-estimating oppostion and tell me how far it gets the team.
Probably not far I'm guessing.
There's a difference between playing in a shit league...and assuming that because your in a shit league that all the teams except for yours are...well...shit.
It doesn't work that way.
If by year 3 or 4 we are not a playoff team then yes, clear Mo and Carver out, but a second year team that is missing their top forward and going through a bad patch doesnt need to have its entire front office cleared. You need to stop over reacting
to sweep clean would only mean next year we're an expansion team again.
the team has improved from last year. as long as I see improvement from one year to the next in the point total, that's enough to keep it going as it is. If the team stays the same two years in a row or regresses in # of points, then changes may be made.
I love the Nintendo generation and their short attention span and demanding instant gratification
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