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  1. #241
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    he wasn't offside.
    I can understand why the ref called it, G was fast as heck on the jump and she was a yard behind the play making the angle look to her like it was off. it wasn't and VAR should have fixed that.
    Caldwell should have seen it and didn't. on the replay it's obvious as there are lines on the pitch that make it plain as day.
    KJ sure as hell should have seen it and didn't. The contortions he went through were ridiculous and may be the first time I was ever disappointed in him. he was wrong and did such a disservice to his audience. hopefully he gets his shit together and walks this back.

    so. not offside. therefore DOGSO red card.

    anyway we should have potted a few more goals and made it so this debate was just theoretical rehashing rather than something that might have squashed our playoff hopes. if we miss by a point or two.......

  2. #242
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    Agreed... Can only blame ourselves on the others.

  3. #243
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    I donít believe the potential Dogso and the offside were both reviewed in the tiny fraction of time available. Reviewing the offside alone would have take. More time than they took. Not possible. In fact, our guys should have surrounded the referee and the linesman as other teams do to force the VAR people to do a review of both things and create the time available.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 09-03-2019 at 01:08 PM.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section_105 View Post
    he wasn't offside.

    KJ sure as hell should have seen it and didn't. The contortions he went through were ridiculous and may be the first time I was ever disappointed in him. he was wrong and did such a disservice to his audience. hopefully he gets his shit together and walks this back.
    he won't he is a gynocentric male
    Last edited by stevep; 09-03-2019 at 12:24 PM.

  5. #245
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    I am guessing that there was online sexist abuse of the AR which was what KJ was reacting to in his comments.

    I object to VAR on principle but if you are going to have it this play needed to be transparently reviewed and an explanation given. It is inconceivable that this wasnít a DOGSO Red. It was the goal keeper, not a defender and a clear foul. Gallardo goes round him and itís 97.5 per cent a goal, and it was such a close offside that it needed to be reviewed in detail.

    None of that was the fault of the AR, who did her job well and In Accordance with the new practices. But was slightly out of position due to the speed of play so easily could have been incorrect.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    an interesting occurrence has occurred in recent TFC away games.

    DC United game, refereeing was atrocious cost TFC 2 points
    NYRB game Jozy was called offside on a TFC goal, a very questionable offside
    and now this offside play in the New England cost TFC 2 points.

    you reverse even one of these events and TFC has a very good shot at 4th place in the playoffs
    reverse them all and TFC guaranteed 4th or higher

    random coincidence or is something else going on here?
    what is the probability that all of these 3 recent events happen by purely random chance to TFC?
    The chances are extraordinarily good especially when you filter out confirmation bias that blinds you to all decisions that go in your favour and focuses on only the ones you perceive to be wrong against you

    Every fan of every sports team in every league in every country on planet earth is convinced the balance of referee calls goes against them, there is not one exception to this. Why on earth would MLS conspire to specifically keep a big market, big revenue spending/generating team down? MLS want Toronto, Atlanta, LA, New York (Either), Chicago etc to do well and the small market teams to just scrape by

  7. #247
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    Does anyone have a link to the offside/ potential red card that we're talking about? I can't find it.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostKiller View Post
    Does anyone have a link to the offside/ potential red card that we're talking about? I can't find it.
    https://www.tsn.ca/video/jack-dunfie...y-area~1768612

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post


    They should know this or in real time have looked up the rules. I did a 15 minute google search. They focussed on the No Call Offside and not the serious foul on Gallardo by Turner, the play was
    still live and therefor the offense should have been called.

    I am done now.... ;-)


    COYRs


    I stand corrected, i found this on the MLS site....

    What if an on-field decision is overturned, but there were other actions that took place after the reviewable play in question? What happens to those plays?
    If a decision is overturned after Video Review, then play resumes from that point in the match and any actions that happened after the point of the overturned decision are erased.
    Only disciplinary cards issued by the referee are never erased except for cards shown in cases of DOGSO or the stopping of a promising attack: If an attack is erased following an overturned decision, any cards for stopping the attack are also wiped away.

    So unless, they overturn the play... Turner's yellow card would be erased. What a joke, looking at the replay again Turner has studs high aimed at Gallardo's legs but whatever.

  10. #250
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    I just rewatched that debate and a couple of quotes stood out to be that KJ and TSN did not want to get into the debate most likely because of the gender issue.

    @1:56 - Dunfield says "If we pause it here, just as Michael Bradley passes the ball, it's very difficult to see if Gallardo is offside"

    BUT TSN does not pause the video. Clearly Dunfield has paused it and seen it offscreen, but TSN won't do it for as it could lend credibility to his point.

    @3:30 - Dunfield "I think they're in line with one another" KJ "So you'd rather technology beat her? She's on the field" Dunfield "I just want the decision to be right"

    KJ would rather go with her decision than technology no matter what. The purpose of VAR is for technology to get the call CORRECT not to protect a referee's feelings. KJ and Kelcey then jump on him for saying she might be wrong. Dunfield never even brings gender into it, he just says it's so close and he thinks he's onside.


    I'm all for women to be referees if they are qualified. And she IS definitely qualified. But even the best in the world make mistakes, especially something as tight as this. Heck, it was so close, she could be right and Gallardo was offside. However, it is clearly evident what TSN and KJ were so defensive to not spark a gender debate that they refused to even entertain the thought. Had this been on the other side of the field with the male linesman, I feel like I can guarantee they would've paused the video and debated the call.

  11. #251
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    I most often find Kristian Jack really knowledgeable and fair, but in this clip he is aggravating. His argument is that the lineswoman is the expert so she must be right??? Thats a moronic argument. The whole point of VAR is to correct the 'expert' ref decisions with technology.

    I watched the NER broadcast on DAZN, and I can't believe it but Paul Mariner was adamant he was onside. Mariner has more sense than Jack

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I stand corrected, i found this on the MLS site....

    What if an on-field decision is overturned, but there were other actions that took place after the reviewable play in question? What happens to those plays?
    If a decision is overturned after Video Review, then play resumes from that point in the match and any actions that happened after the point of the overturned decision are erased.
    Only disciplinary cards issued by the referee are never erased except for cards shown in cases of DOGSO or the stopping of a promising attack: If an attack is erased following an overturned decision, any cards for stopping the attack are also wiped away.

    So unless, they overturn the play... Turner's yellow card would be erased. What a joke, looking at the replay again Turner has studs high aimed at Gallardo's legs but whatever.
    From what I gathered there, DOGSO cards would be overturned, but not disciplinary. So as Turner had studs up, I feel if the referee had carded him for 'dangerous play' ie. intentionally putting his studs up, that could be upheld. If he was carded for DOGSO, ie. a non-dangerous (regular) tackle, that would be wiped. But of course, they said forget VAR, he's offside. Never happened.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    I most often find Kristian Jack really knowledgeable and fair, but in this clip he is aggravating. His argument is that the lineswoman is the expert so she must be right??? Thats a moronic argument. The whole point of VAR is to correct the 'expert' ref decisions with technology.

    I watched the NER broadcast on DAZN, and I can't believe it but Paul Mariner was adamant he was onside. Mariner has more sense than Jack
    I as well used to like KJ, he seemed a likeable knowledgeable individual. I believe KJ has revealed his true colours. he has been exposed, won't be able to listen to KJ the same way again. He is just your typical feminized male that you see on tv today.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    From what I gathered there, DOGSO cards would be overturned, but not disciplinary. So as Turner had studs up, I feel if the referee had carded him for 'dangerous play' ie. intentionally putting his studs up, that could be upheld. If he was carded for DOGSO, ie. a non-dangerous (regular) tackle, that would be wiped. But of course, they said forget VAR, he's offside. Never happened.
    Don't disagree, didn't want to sound like one of those irrational fans but i thought his studs were up, and it was clear his angle was directed to take out Gallardo as well, which he did. IMHO, it was reckless and a RED all the way but by the ref and MLS doing nothing it gets swept under the rug.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    The chances are extraordinarily good especially when you filter out confirmation bias that blinds you to all decisions that go in your favour and focuses on only the ones you perceive to be wrong against you

    Every fan of every sports team in every league in every country on planet earth is convinced the balance of referee calls goes against them, there is not one exception to this. Why on earth would MLS conspire to specifically keep a big market, big revenue spending/generating team down? MLS want Toronto, Atlanta, LA, New York (Either), Chicago etc to do well and the small market teams to just scrape by
    I can't recall a really close play going against the opposition this year, correct me if I'm wrong.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    I just rewatched that debate and a couple of quotes stood out to be that KJ and TSN did not want to get into the debate most likely because of the gender issue.

    @1:56 - Dunfield says "If we pause it here, just as Michael Bradley passes the ball, it's very difficult to see if Gallardo is offside"

    BUT TSN does not pause the video. Clearly Dunfield has paused it and seen it offscreen, but TSN won't do it for as it could lend credibility to his point.

    @3:30 - Dunfield "I think they're in line with one another" KJ "So you'd rather technology beat her? She's on the field" Dunfield "I just want the decision to be right"

    KJ would rather go with her decision than technology no matter what. The purpose of VAR is for technology to get the call CORRECT not to protect a referee's feelings. KJ and Kelcey then jump on him for saying she might be wrong. Dunfield never even brings gender into it, he just says it's so close and he thinks he's onside.


    I'm all for women to be referees if they are qualified. And she IS definitely qualified. But even the best in the world make mistakes, especially something as tight as this. Heck, it was so close, she could be right and Gallardo was offside. However, it is clearly evident what TSN and KJ were so defensive to not spark a gender debate that they refused to even entertain the thought. Had this been on the other side of the field with the male linesman, I feel like I can guarantee they would've paused the video and debated the call.
    Essentially what I'm hearing from him is this ref is a professional and is flawless at her job - GTFO - I don't know why he's 100% sure she got the call right and it shouldn't even be reviewed. He's a fucking knob. I've tried to listen to his podcasts and the majority of it is him talking out of his ass, going on these long winded rants about whatever footy philosophy he believes in. His opinions belong on a message board, not on national TV.
    Last edited by jabbronies; 09-04-2019 at 09:11 AM.

  17. #257
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    IMO, I find KJ to be reasonably knowledgeable but doesnít respond well when his opinions are challenged.

    Just my $0.02

  18. #258
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    Keep things on topic to the game, please, or we'll need to close this thread.
    "Of all the things in life that don't actually matter, football matters the most." - Stuart McKeown

    Supporting since 2007


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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    IMO, I find KJ to be reasonably knowledgeable but doesnít respond well when his opinions are challenged.

    Just my $0.02
    I know what he is. He is a white knight!!

    Classic white knight behavior.

    Man am I smart. It took me a few days but I figured the behavior out
    Last edited by stevep; 09-05-2019 at 06:35 PM.

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    I had a chance to talk to KJ last night about the offside and ask him about the call. KJ if you are reading this, apologies if I paraphrase this incorrectly, and thanks again for walking me through it.

    This is why VAR doesn't kick in - the offside call is too marginal to overturn. Even with the screengrabs and vanishing point/parallax issues, it's too close to overturn her decision. Personally I maintain Gallardo was onside, but I can concede the rationale.

    Let's assume an alternate scenario. Gallardo is 2m onside. Something really blatant. Everything else happens the same. In this scenario because of how obvious (key word) the onside is, VAR would tell the ref to look and overturn the offside. Then they proceed to review the potential DOGSO and red card.

    Similarly, if she kept the flag down because in her mind he was onside and things continue the same, then it's a DOGSO and red card.

    But because it's so close, you leave it be. I believe this was the point KJ was trying to make at halftime, albeit in a very unclear manner.

    Another scenario. If the keeper loses his mind and say takes a swing at Gallardo, even with the offside flag raised, the ref would be compelled to give a red. That's when actions after the offside would still count.

    My own thoughts are this creates a bit of incentive for the keeper to come out and take the player out. But it's also a gamble on the keepers part - because if the attacker is onside you just got red carded.
    Last edited by magmadragon; 09-05-2019 at 07:30 PM.

  21. #261
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    Okay, iíll challenge on that one (not to repeat my earlier post, but whatever). Phily had a very close decision on the weekend go to VAR and had their goal taken away.

    Is KJ actually going to say with a straight face the league is consistently applying the rules here? I mean, come on.

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    I don't think there was a debate that it wasn't close (whether on- or off- side). I think that consensus has agreed with that. It was the refusal to acknowledge that it was even close is what we are getting at. The assistant called it offside so Dunfield had no right to disagree or even look a slow motion/paused replay is the issue. KJ's explanation totally avoids that.

    As for another point, if EPL uses technology down to the inch, but MLS uses eye test and it must be clear, obvious, and beyond a reasonable doubt? Why isn't there a little more consistency worldwide. If there's different standards, then what standard will be used for major competitions. Should be uniform (or as close to it) across the board.

  23. #263
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    I never thought I would say this, but I gotta agree with Paul Mariner on that one...

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    Here's how I think the gallardo play went down.

    it is a really really close play so linesman does not raise flag, if anything she thinks he is onside.
    gallardo goes in and goalkeeper fouls him and creates a dogso
    league does not want new england to get a red card so they tell her in her earpiece "raise the flag"
    this way Gallardo was offside no foul, no dogso, no red card to new england goalkeeper
    then league immedately tells TSN to tell KJ to go on tv at halftime to defend the referee, tell everybody she did the right thing. when the whole sequence of events was absolutely ridiculous.
    everybody is now debating an absolutely ridiculous occurence
    and the league has brilliantly covered up there covert actions

    now everybody is going to ask why, why would the league do this.
    don't ask why, why is a really difficult question to answer in life
    look at the facts, look at the evidence,
    Last edited by stevep; 09-05-2019 at 11:47 PM.

  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Here's how I think the gallardo play went down.

    it is a really really close play so linesman does not raise flag, if anything she thinks he is onside.
    gallardo goes in and goalkeeper fouls him and creates a dogso
    league does not want new england to get a red card so they tell her in her earpiece "raise the flag"
    this way Gallardo was offside no foul, no dogso, no red card to new england goalkeeper
    then league immedately tells TSN to tell KJ to go on tv at halftime to defend the referee, tell everybody she did the right thing. when the whole sequence of events was absolutely ridiculous.
    everybody is now debating an absolutely ridiculous occurence
    and the league has brilliantly covered up there covert actions

    now everybody is going to ask why, why would the league do this.
    don't ask why, why is a really difficult question to answer in life
    look at the facts, look at the evidence,

  26. #266
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    LOL JK.

    I dont know, who knows what the hell goes in the minds of those running this league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    I don't think there was a debate that it wasn't close (whether on- or off- side). I think that consensus has agreed with that. It was the refusal to acknowledge that it was even close is what we are getting at. The assistant called it offside so Dunfield had no right to disagree or even look a slow motion/paused replay is the issue. KJ's explanation totally avoids that.

    As for another point, if EPL uses technology down to the inch, but MLS uses eye test and it must be clear, obvious, and beyond a reasonable doubt? Why isn't there a little more consistency worldwide. If there's different standards, then what standard will be used for major competitions. Should be uniform (or as close to it) across the board.
    The way it went down it feels like maybe Dunfield said something inappropriate off-site, and that's what they were reacting to, moreso than his actual argument.

    But that's just speculation, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon View Post
    Why is everyone so mad. We played well. Killed them on the xG. Like a different team compared to what we saw in Columbus.
    See guys. Everything works out just fine when the performances are good. For me the sign that we were turning things around came a few weeks earlier away vs. the Red Bulls. We were very unlucky there as well, dominated them in a losing effort.

 

 

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