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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    They are told not to call offside on close calls until the end of the play. So once the play ended (foul) she said it was offside earlier
    thank you for explaining that to me

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    I think the keeper should have been punished for his tackle on Gallardo. If the assistant ref is going to keep her flag down until after the play completes then you can't pick and choose what you are going to consider counting as part of the game and what you are going to say "well it was offside so it doesn't count". As far as i'm concerned if the flag doesn't go up the play is live until it does. If the assistant doesn't think it was offside and you score they go back and watch it and call it back if the video guy thinks it is. I mean wtf do we need the assistant for anymore? You could just let the play go and review it because every call they make is getting reviewed anyway. I guess you need somebody to say the ball went out or something but this is getting ridiculous.

    I can live with all of the bullshit if you can get a handle on what the rules are but as someone mentioned Gallardo could have suffered a broken leg or ligament damage from a tackle like that. It was during live play before a flag went up or a whistle blew. It's a card for me regardless of the offside call ... and I think it's a straight red.

  3. #213
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    It will be interesting to see if the league hands punishment after the fact to the keeper.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    The one game off format means that one unlucky bounce can make all the difference between advancing or watching at home.
    This new format won’t last a season if one of LAFC or the Atlanta/Philly go out in their first game of the playoffs.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddies View Post
    I think the keeper should have been punished for his tackle on Gallardo. If the assistant ref is going to keep her flag down until after the play completes then you can't pick and choose what you are going to consider counting as part of the game and what you are going to say "well it was offside so it doesn't count". As far as i'm concerned if the flag doesn't go up the play is live until it does. If the assistant doesn't think it was offside and you score they go back and watch it and call it back if the video guy thinks it is. I mean wtf do we need the assistant for anymore? You could just let the play go and review it because every call they make is getting reviewed anyway. I guess you need somebody to say the ball went out or something but this is getting ridiculous.

    I can live with all of the bullshit if you can get a handle on what the rules are but as someone mentioned Gallardo could have suffered a broken leg or ligament damage from a tackle like that. It was during live play before a flag went up or a whistle blew. It's a card for me regardless of the offside call ... and I think it's a straight red.
    I’m with you. It’s a straight red.

    Fascinating to me the contortions they are doing with the rules to accommodate VAR

  6. #216
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    I’d like to understand how this played out. The AR didn’t flag right away because they are too not to because they have VAR. They got it wrong as it is clear that it was onside. Di they actually go to VAR on that call? Did VAR confirm the AR’s decision? Or was it skipped altogether?

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I have two issues with the play, one on the field, one off the field.

    There is no reason at all that the play should not have at least been stopped and reviewed. When Bradley took the touch and executed the pass, it was so close that it was mandatory that it should be reviewed.. in some circumstances, Gallardo onside, some not. Depending when you say it was released and if then they said offside, then maybe we are not so pissed. There is absolutely no way the linesman could have had at least a partially obstructed view of the entire play. Look at some of the marginal VAR calls on TFC at the beginning of the Year.

    The second was KJ and Caldwell. Stop treating the viewing audience like we know nothing about football. More importantly they are the commentators for TFC and not the Revolution or MLS. You are not prepping for a job in England. Be a f—kin’ homer for once. If you believe the above scenario at all, you should be saying it and not being politically correct and rationalize a marginal no call at best.

    No one is going to question your skills. Where is the Bob Cole of soccer when we need one?

    As an aside, I really think the team is coming together and will click.
    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    listening to KJ at half time was nauseating. The way he was praising that female assistant referee, also on his twitter handle he has a tribute to his wife calling her the brilliant brunette baker. You can tell by these two things that he is a very gynocentric male. His gynocentrism in this case is blinding him from making a non biased decision. You should completely disregard what KJ says regarding this Gallardo play.
    A call for homerism is a call for bias.

    I don't mind homer bias.

    I minded how uncomfortable the two looked talking about a referee/linesman because of their gender but that will get better with time.
    Canada vs Bermuda Oct. 8th! WCQ!
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    This new format won’t last a season if one of LAFC or the Atlanta/Philly go out in their first game of the playoffs.
    They are going to give this at least 3 years - the attempt is a NCAA BB tourney style do it quick thing. They WANT upsets. They hope to have coverage of these 3 non-final rounds bleed into coverage of the regular season.

    I think that if anything they will be expanding the playoffs/cup to 16.


    ************


    About the foul - I think it was at most a yellow. We see cynical defender tackles like that all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    Definitely on the other side of this. Endoh is fine off the bench but isn't a starting 11 calibre player for me. Gallardo has shown more in his runs, crosses and shots than Endoh ever has Imo.
    Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
    Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
    Endohs shot from distance is something we need

    Im convinced if used properly he can be valuable

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
    Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
    Endohs shot from distance is something we need

    Im convinced if used properly he can be valuable
    Endoh has something the other wingers are missing, finishing ability.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    A call for homerism is a call for bias.

    I don't mind homer bias.
    I just don't want our announcers biased AGAINST us to "prove" that they aren't being homers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
    Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
    Endohs shot from distance is something we need

    Im convinced if used properly he can be valuable
    You we could fine tune the defensive parts of his game and a few other things he’d be great in a midfield 3. Regardless, I like how he’s improved over the past while. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him cement a role in the at some point, be that super sub or as a midfield rotation player.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I just don't want our announcers biased AGAINST us to "prove" that they aren't being homers.
    Thank you, that is what i was trying to say....Something that close, they should have been railing against the call. Especially with the work done by "rydermike" with the slow mo. The booth could have/should have done the same
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 09-02-2019 at 12:50 PM.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikmacdo View Post
    Endoh has something the other wingers are missing, finishing ability.
    Yep exactly


    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    Gallardo is more talented. But endoh has a passion and engine that somehow works in MLS.
    Endoh is not a winger though, so i geuss i cant swap em out that like.
    Endohs shot from distance is something we need

    Im convinced if used properly he can be valuable
    I appreciate hustle like most, Toronto enjoys its players that work hard but he's entering his mid 20s and I doubt he's gonna be able to fine tune much more. He's valuable in a depth sense but no way is he a starter. Gallardo has speed, technique, age and experience. Suspect if you asked him to start popping shots from afar he would and could. Do agree we need to take shots way further out. Gallardo also adds alot to your floundering counter attack game

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    Also can't stop thinking about this word. Makes me think of Al Bundy and No Maam

    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    gynocentric

  16. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Eegads.

    Separately: I'll say it again, Paul Mariner, homer announcer for NE, thought Gallardo was onside due to Farrell. You can also see it from the longer diagonal view, with the ball just leaving Bradley's foot, and the shadows of the NFL markings showing Gallardo onside relative to Farrell. Remembering also, even should be onside.

    Debatable whether they would call that "clear and obvious" enough to overturn the non-call. However I've seen calls overturned on more marginal evidence.
    In the Premier League they are treating offside as a fact - no clear and obvious test, only “is he offside”. Applied here it has to be no. And it’s at least a potential red on the goalie, both for the denied scoring chance and the brutal tackle, so should have been reviewed for certain.

  17. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Q also made an amazing save just two minutes earlier, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Bono in a league game.

    Competition is good!
    I have thought that Bono is the better shot stopper for most of the time Q has been starting. But Q is heads and shoulders better in two critical ares - distribution and command of the box.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 09-02-2019 at 10:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    It will be interesting to see if the league hands punishment after the fact to the keeper.
    If it was our guy they would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I have thought that Bono is the betrayal shot stopper for most of the time Q has been starting. But Q is heads and shoulders better in two critical ares - distribution and command of the box.
    You cant trust passing the ball back to Bono.

    Hes the really good shot stopping keeper in house league.
    Q doesn't kick the ball out of bounds

  20. #230
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    I've been thinking over the blown offside call and I still don't understand the sequence.

    The sideline ref believes it to be offside, but since the league, due to the presence of VAR, instructs refs not to raise the flag on marginal calls, she does not.

    The play continues. As such the players on the field can only continue play in the belief it is a live ball. The keeper has a brain fart and commits DOGSO.

    But now the ref raises her flag to show that in fact she believed it to be offside earlier on.

    Let's assume the potential DOGSO doesn't occur and Gallardo rounds the keeper and scores. Does the ref raise her flag then? Or does VAR take over at that point and say yeah it was offside? If it's VAR in this scenario, then why does VAR not kick in for the DOGSO? It is a red card offense.

    I know every play is checked, but I mean the VAR telling the centre ref to review it. By raising her flag, does she prevent VAR from kicking in since everything after the offside doesn't exist?

    It almost feels like you need some sort of delayed penalty call like in hockey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magmadragon View Post
    I've been thinking over the blown offside call and I still don't understand the sequence.

    The sideline ref believes it to be offside, but since the league, due to the presence of VAR, instructs refs not to raise the flag on marginal calls, she does not.

    The play continues. As such the players on the field can only continue play in the belief it is a live ball. The keeper has a brain fart and commits DOGSO.

    But now the ref raises her flag to show that in fact she believed it to be offside earlier on.

    Let's assume the potential DOGSO doesn't occur and Gallardo rounds the keeper and scores. Does the ref raise her flag then? Or does VAR take over at that point and say yeah it was offside? If it's VAR in this scenario, then why does VAR not kick in for the DOGSO? It is a red card offense.

    I know every play is checked, but I mean the VAR telling the centre ref to review it. By raising her flag, does she prevent VAR from kicking in since everything after the offside doesn't exist?

    It almost feels like you need some sort of delayed penalty call like in hockey.
    I agree with your points. If we have VAR, that has to be reviewed. Red for DOGsO and red for tackle as well. TV replays showed it was not offside. So therefore referee needs to VAR it.

    but for me, that also is testament that we would be better off without VAR in the first place. She raises the flag. End of.

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    It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I have thought that Bono is the better shot stopper for most of the time Q has been starting. But Q is heads and shoulders better in two critical ares - distribution and command of the box.
    Generally true but during his last run I would say it was actually his shot stopping that dipped and ultimately lost him his job. There were quite a few bumblers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.
    This. Offside calls are done 'upstairs', the ref doesn't go look. I don't think the MLS has the same tech as the EPL though, so they probably look to see if it's 'clear and obvious' which it wasn't, compared to the EPL who uses tech done to the millimetre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    This. Offside calls are done 'upstairs', the ref doesn't go look. I don't think the MLS has the same tech as the EPL though, so they probably look to see if it's 'clear and obvious' which it wasn't, compared to the EPL who uses tech done to the millimetre.
    an interesting occurrence has occurred in recent TFC away games.

    DC United game, refereeing was atrocious cost TFC 2 points
    NYRB game Jozy was called offside on a TFC goal, a very questionable offside
    and now this offside play in the New England cost TFC 2 points.

    you reverse even one of these events and TFC has a very good shot at 4th place in the playoffs
    reverse them all and TFC guaranteed 4th or higher

    random coincidence or is something else going on here?
    what is the probability that all of these 3 recent events happen by purely random chance to TFC?
    Last edited by stevep; 09-03-2019 at 10:47 AM.

  26. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.
    I did a little research and red vs yellow is kind of skewed because of the offside error. ( I do not know what the official rules are for offenses in VAR delays) But even still, it may or may not be a DOGsO straight red, unless we are in agreement that it was vicious and dangerous tackle (i do) or is the opinion that was he playing the ball and missed outside the penalty area. See link http://proreferees.com/2017/04/12/pl...k-2017-week-6/

    Anyways, interesting precedent that leagues not just MLS need to figure out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Generally true but during his last run I would say it was actually his shot stopping that dipped and ultimately lost him his job. There were quite a few bumblers.
    Fair

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.
    How do you know it was reviewed? Genuinely curious.

  29. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    How do you know it was reviewed? Genuinely curious.
    Every play is reviewed by VAR for possible red - that's what they sit there and do all game long. They are actually reviewing every play to see if something is worth going back to. In theory, they can retroactively give a red in the 90th minute for a play in the 1st. This is a decent article on the process. I still think they need to do what Rugby & cricket do and make the process from when a check is called for live to air - in those sports, the onfield decides if they need help - football is trying to do it from an outside perspective saying "Hey, we need to look at that."

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-le...e-works-in-mls
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 09-03-2019 at 11:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I did a little research and red vs yellow is kind of skewed because of the offside error. ( I do not know what the official rules are for offenses in VAR delays) But even still, it may or may not be a DOGsO straight red, unless we are in agreement that it was vicious and dangerous tackle (i do) or is the opinion that was he playing the ball and missed outside the penalty area. See link http://proreferees.com/2017/04/12/pl...k-2017-week-6/

    Anyways, interesting precedent that leagues not just MLS need to figure out.
    OK, so now i am getting into it, for anyone else interested.... https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/kh...gyna8juxw3.pdf. Page 134 . Sorry for the length

    There are a couple of clear points... smaller text are right out of the handbook

    1) Only the referee can initiate a ‘review’; the VAR (and other match officials) can only recommend a ‘review’ to the referee. The final decision is always taken by the refer

    2) If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/sendoff for stopping a promising attack or DOGSO).

    3) The referee may receive assistance from the VAR only in relation to four categories of match-changing decisions/incidents. In all these situations, the VAR is only used after the referee has made a (first/original) decision (including allowing play to continue), or if a serious incident is missed/not seen by the match officials.

    The referee`s original decision will not be changed unless there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ (this includes any decision made by the referee based on information from another match official e.g. offside).
    The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are:

    A) Goal/no goal (handball, foul, etc.)

    An offence by the team that scored the goal in the attacking phase that ended with the scoring of a goal, including
    offense by the attacking team in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, etc.)
    offside: position and offence
    ball out of play prior to the goal
    goal/no goal decisions

    B) Penalty kick/no penalty kick
    penalty kick incorrectly awarded
    penalty kick offence not penalised
    location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
    offence by the attacking team in the build-up to the penalty incident
    ball out of play prior to the incident
    offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick
    encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in a play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper

    C) Direcct red cards (not second yellow card/caution)

    DOGSO (especially position of offence and positions of other players)
    serious foul play (or reckless challenge)
    violent conduct, biting or spitting at another person
    using offensive, insulting or abusive gestures

    D) Mistaken Identify (red or yellow cards)
    If the referee penalises an offence and then gives the wrong player from the offending (penalised) team a yellow or red card, the identity of the offender can be reviewed; the actual offence itself cannot be reviewed unless it relates to a goal, penalty incident or direct red card.


    But the big thing i found was that the referee according to procedures:

    Original Decision

    The referee and other (including any disciplinary action) as if there was no VAR (except for a ‘missed’ incident)

    Critical miss, the play by Turner (the keeper) should not have been ignored (it is right in the rules), at minimum a yellow card should have been applied. The ref and VAR can skate through this on a technicality, they didn't believe it was a DOGsO or serious foul (or reckless challenge) but it is inexcusable that Turner didn't get a yellow.

    Whats more and unless I am getting this completely wrong (not MLS Specific handbook), this is where I am pissed at our commentators and our on-field team management at a minimum.

    They should know this or in real time have looked up the rules. I did a 15 minute google search. They focussed on the No Call Offside and not the serious foul on Gallardo by Turner, the play was
    still live and therefor the offense should have been called.

    I am done now.... ;-)


    COYRs







    Last edited by Bushmancan; 09-03-2019 at 11:55 AM.

 

 

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