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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Fair enough Auzzy - wasn't referring to you on the Vanney out thing.
    No problem!

    And how about that amazing run by Gallardo in the first half, and sublime pass perfectly destined all the way across the goal mouth to Benezet who had made a perfect run; stopped only by an incredible last-ditch interception by a Montreal defender (that might have turned into a highlight-reel own goal). We were high-fiving each other in 112; that was some good footy shit all around. (And would be hard to really see on TV.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Yes Montreal was awful for long stretches. Because they're not great anyway; and they're even worse w/o some of their best players. Yes still it was closer than it needed to be. For long stretches, it played out like some other frustrating TFC games: lots of possession, but missing the final good ball and/or poor finishing. And ending as a tie or lost game based on a small number of chances of the opposition.

    Not sure if you're referring to me, but I don't think I've ever said Vanney out (yet I'm worried it might happen, and he sometimes frustrates me). For me this was an example of Vanney over-thinking things. The same kind of decisions that have cost us in many other games, came close but didn't cost us last night. I wouldn't call him a tactical genius after that game, until things work more consistently, and in more difficult circumstances.

    I thought Benezet and Gallardo were a breath of fresh air, and even did more defensively than I had been lead to expect. Gallardo can do well in the high press with his great speed; Benezet with a last-ditch tackle near our goal, and some other good work to contain Montreal, and to help win the ball back. In offense, both are players that can take on & beat players, with speed and/or guile. And as they attract & take on defenders or midfielders, they free up others.

    Almost everyone played quite well last night, most of the time, and for me that was a good sign for the future. And hopefully all our best players get more time and more familiarity / consistency together.

    Shoulda been 4-1, and mighta been 4-1, if Pozuelo had started (and maybe also Shaffleburg coming on sometime after the 60th minute, just to kill them off with even more speed). I don't go all ra-ra after winning on a tight score against weak & weakened opposition; I like to still debate and learn from that. (And dropping points in a well-designed game with good effort, against a superior team or against some wonder goals, would also be worth a good debate, and no reason to get despondent.)
    Pretty fair and well thought out analysis.

    It still looks like the players don’t fit well but that might mean Oso and Deleon lose out, depending on formation. And Shaff and Gallardo for the last 30 minutes would destroy teams. Even LAFC would struggle.

  3. #183
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    BTW I should have said it earlier. A big reason I felt we were fairly lucky last night: despite our superior build up and everything else, both our goals were a bit lucky or scrappy, incl. Delgado's double-nutmeg strike. (Maybe that has now finally broken Marky's Guadalajara duck? At least it wasn't over the bar!)

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    TSN team breaks down benching Pozuelo:

    https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/video/why-...ntreal~1763844

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    BTW I should have said it earlier. A big reason I felt we were fairly lucky last night: despite our superior build up and everything else, both our goals were a bit lucky or scrappy, incl. Delgado's double-nutmeg strike. (Maybe that has now finally broken Marky's Guadalajara duck? At least it wasn't over the bar!)
    They resulted from pressure though. Not like they were undeserved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Shoulda been 4-1.
    But it wasn’t 4-1. Beautiful night for a game. A better team doesn’t let us get way with this one. (We gave away a marginal goal again). We had a potential failure written all over this and that doubt mentality is something I haven’t felt in a long time. We need to put some of these weaker teams away early and by a lot to gain confidence. That’s why the Poz decision is too risky.

    I liked Gallardo (very fast, comes back to help, gives second effort) but needs a break on his finishing and Benezet was fun to watch him in tight spaces.

    i am sorry but it wasn’t brilliant coaching, it is a good problem to have when you have choices to field a good team. But your DP is your DP. There is no excuse for Vanney unless there is something else going on.

    Edit - Just saw Auzzy’s assessment, you nailed it.

    On to New England pounding!!!!
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 08-25-2019 at 09:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    What does this even mean? Are you saying only those at the stadium get an accurate account of the game? I find the opposite, watching the broadcast with the more focused views and replays I get a clearer game view .
    Agreed. Outside of the sense of physicality and speed you get watching an in person game and watching the interactions in certain areas of the field (if you're close to the action) there's nothing superior about it. If anything, in a lot of areas where you sit its worse.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    BTW I should have said it earlier. A big reason I felt we were fairly lucky last night: despite our superior build up and everything else, both our goals were a bit lucky or scrappy, incl. Delgado's double-nutmeg strike. (Maybe that has now finally broken Marky's Guadalajara duck? At least it wasn't over the bar!)
    Our finishing is pretty bad in a lot of quarters. Watching DeLeon get into a good position and sky it into the stands from just outside the 18. Unfortunately, I'm starting to agree with the assessment we need his motor to cover ground in midfield.

    Why did we extend Osorio? He doesn't fit with our first choice formation and other first choice players. He looks like a Pozuelo substitute at this stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Why did we extend Osorio? He doesn't fit with our first choice formation and other first choice players. He looks like a Pozuelo substitute at this stage.
    And that wouldn’t be so bad except he is 27 and making 600K+. Maybe he needs to accept that for now and come back with a vengeance next year.

    Put the team first and work hard every day and be ready when called upon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Our finishing is pretty bad in a lot of quarters. Watching DeLeon get into a good position and sky it into the stands from just outside the 18. Unfortunately, I'm starting to agree with the assessment we need his motor to cover ground in midfield.

    Why did we extend Osorio? He doesn't fit with our first choice formation and other first choice players. He looks like a Pozuelo substitute at this stage.
    Not sure if the same Deleon shot you’re talking about But I’m pretty sure it deflected off a impact players back and went for a corner. But I still agree the finishing is just horrid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I was also at the game, and I agree, as did a bunch of guys around me. Montreal was missing some of their best players. That game was much tighter than it should have been, and we were fairly lucky. Leaving your best player on the bench for half of the match is the one problem. The other is that the key attacking pieces (Pozuelo, Altidore, Benezet, and Gallardo) have barely played together. Today they only got 15 minutes between Poz coming on, and Gallardo coming off. This guys gotta be insync like a well-oiled machine as we hit crunchtime in this season.
    Precisely.....and it seems Vanney is hinting Poz is too slow, it seems any team cohesion that threatens Vanneys strategies he deliberately ignores . There is too much talent on the team not to play the best and asap. We continue to be stymied in the attacking zone . On fast breaks we are many times looking back passing letting the opposition reform then trap us into passing harmlessly across the field . That's how Vanneys lost it in our first MLS Cup and it stubbornly continues . And show to the player who isn't his robot .

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    I'll give credit when it's due and Vanney finally coached like he had balls last night. Benched poz for a wake up call or whatever. Started the TAM wingers who played very well. (Really like the speed Gallardo brings). This was the best match ive watched all season. It was intense, attractive, exciting, etc. I hope this is the start of some momentum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Our finishing is pretty bad in a lot of quarters. Watching DeLeon get into a good position and sky it into the stands from just outside the 18. Unfortunately, I'm starting to agree with the assessment we need his motor to cover ground in midfield.

    Why did we extend Osorio? He doesn't fit with our first choice formation and other first choice players. He looks like a Pozuelo substitute at this stage.
    People were complaining around me as well, but I really didn't mind DeLeon's long shots, and some by others. DeLeon recently scored a great long-distance effort. And of his long shots last night, one was deflected, and one went near the upper corner of the goal. (Might have been some worse ones as well.)

    Players' apparent fear of longer shots; and endless / useless passing within the 18, were frequent complaints this year and last. Taking (& maybe even scoring) the occasional long shot, makes the opposition adjust and opens other opportunities. (Still needs to be smart, e.g. when somebody else is in a much better position. Decision making needs to improve.)

    Osorio hinted in a recent Sun article, that he's been dealing with some kind of serious issues. Quite nebulous, but not injury apparently. I agree that there are all kinds of position battles in place now, from the new TAM guys, to Oso / DeLeon / Delgado (even Poz apparently), add in Der Schaffner / Laryea / Endoh as speed guys that need to be juggled in or out; and Morrow / Auro often acting as wingers. Plus the occasional two-striker formation with Mullins etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Agreed. Outside of the sense of physicality and speed you get watching an in person game and watching the interactions in certain areas of the field (if you're close to the action) there's nothing superior about it. If anything, in a lot of areas where you sit its worse.
    The main difference for me is watching the players off the ball and seeing the spaces and therefore the tactics. TV doesn’t show this at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    People were complaining around me as well, but I really didn't mind DeLeon's long shots, and some by others. DeLeon recently scored a great long-distance effort. And of his long shots last night, one was deflected, and one went near the upper corner of the goal. (Might have been some worse ones as well.)

    Players' apparent fear of longer shots; and endless / useless passing within the 18, were frequent complaints this year and last. Taking (& maybe even scoring) the occasional long shot, makes the opposition adjust and opens other opportunities. (Still needs to be smart, e.g. when somebody else is in a much better position. Decision making needs to improve.)

    Osorio hinted in a recent Sun article, that he's been dealing with some kind of serious issues. Quite nebulous, but not injury apparently. I agree that there are all kinds of position battles in place now, from the new TAM guys, to Oso / DeLeon / Delgado (even Poz apparently), add in Der Schaffner / Laryea / Endoh as speed guys that need to be juggled in or out; and Morrow / Auro often acting as wingers. Plus the occasional two-striker formation with Mullins etc.
    Yes. All really interetesting and potentially exciting, if it comes together. Still worry about who is going to score goals though. Which is why I like Benezet in a “2” with Jozy

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy View Post
    Precisely.....and it seems Vanney is hinting Poz is too slow, it seems any team cohesion that threatens Vanneys strategies he deliberately ignores . There is too much talent on the team not to play the best and asap. We continue to be stymied in the attacking zone . On fast breaks we are many times looking back passing letting the opposition reform then trap us into passing harmlessly across the field . That's how Vanneys lost it in our first MLS Cup and it stubbornly continues . And show to the player who isn't his robot .
    What gets me about this is you have Delgado who is slow, Bradley who is not as fast as he used to be, and Osorio who is slow. So all your “first choice” mids and even some of the ones who are further down the depth chart (like Fraser) lack speed. In addition you go out and get Gonzalez who looks like he’s going to get turned every time someone with pace faces him up and you play him on the right side next to a couple of fullbacks that are a tad dicey defensively.

    The midfield of this team needs to change to be at least average pace if we’re going to make it in a 4-3-3. And some of these guys have to threaten to score more often.

    Relying on DeLeon is a function of not thinking through your roster decisions or understanding your players. He is not a starter on a championship team, rather a useful part and a hard worker.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 08-25-2019 at 10:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    What gets me about this is you have Delgado who is slow, Bradley who is not as fast as he used to be, and Osorio who is slow. So all your “first choice” mids and even some of the ones who are further down the depth chart (like Fraser) lack speed. In addition you go out and get Gonzalez who looks like he’s going to get turned every time someone with pace faces him up and you play him on the right side next to a couple of fullbacks that are a tad dicey defensively.

    The midfield of this team needs to change to be at least average pace if we’re going to make it in a 4-3-3. And some of these guys have to threaten to score more often.

    Relying on DeLeon is a function of not thinking through your roster decisions or understanding your players. He is not a starter on a championship team, rather a useful part and a hard worker.
    I agree generally, although I don't actually think Delgado is slow. His contribution to defense is mostly in intercepting / breaking up plays, and he's one of the better in the team with that. But he's not really a good defensive midfielder to shield our defense when needed. I would say he's too scattered for that. And generally I think TFC would struggle to bunker if needed, even if Vanney ever tried it.

    We never replaced Will Johnson in that role. Hasler and a few others could be decent DMs if needed, but we dumped them. Fraser is much better defensively this year than last, but you're right doesn't have the sprint & top speed to really react to emergencies.

    I feel you should be able to pick up a relatively cheap destroyer DM, to at least insert when needed. Not even great skill; just speed & quickness to break up plays or recover. And if necessary just lay off easy 5-yard passes to our defenders or Bradley, keeping it simple.

    EDIT Could DeLeon be that low-cost destroyer if you just tell him to hang back, as we could now have about 6 other players on the field who can attack?
    Last edited by Auzzy; 08-25-2019 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I agree generally, although I don't actually think Delgado is slow. His contribution to defense is mostly in intercepting / breaking up plays, and he's one of the better in the team with that. But he's not really a good defensive midfielder to shield our defense when needed. I would say he's too scattered for that. And generally I think TFC would struggle to bunker if needed, even if Vanney ever tried it.

    We never replaced Will Johnson in that role. Hasler and a few others could be decent DMs if needed, but we dumped them. Fraser is much better defensively this year than last, but you're right doesn't have the sprint & top speed to really react to emergencies.

    I feel you should be able to pick up a relatively cheap destroyer DM, to at least insert when needed. Not even great skill; just speed & quickness to break up plays or recover. And if necessary just lay off easy 5-yard passes to our defenders or Bradely, keeping it simple.

    EDIT Could DeLeon be that low-cost destroyer if you just tell him to hang back, as we could now have about 6 other players on the field who can attack?
    Summarized really well , I fear Deleon couldn’t escape his US athletic style of all out unlimited athletic ability but limited holding skills always going forward , unfortunately....and there are plenty of those players in mls . That may be our problem , we really to heavily on these types to be gifted scorers . And then there’s the great leader Bradley who is the elephant in the room . None of us wants to disrespect this great TFC legend but he is determining our future and questions have to be asked . I feel all this is understood by the present players and why there is confusion and a questionable unity on / off the field . BTW if we let Shuffleburg die a slow death it’s inexcusable. All this , and losing an obvious Vanney replacement in Fraser means Vanney simply stays .....sadly . We’re done then .
    ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana

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    Starting lineup was questionable, but we dominated most of the match. The scoreline flattered Montreal.

    Biggest win of the season thus far. Hopefully we can build on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    TSN team breaks down benching Pozuelo:

    https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/video/why-...ntreal~1763844
    So he dropped him for tactical reasons not to manage his minutes?

    Vanney needs to go and he needs to go right now for us to salvage any chance of taking this (Still very talented) team on a deep playoff run. He's a dead duck, so why wait?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    Starting lineup was questionable, but we dominated most of the match. The scoreline flattered Montreal.

    Biggest win of the season thus far. Hopefully we can build on it.
    This.

    Nearly lost it, whilst listening to Vanney explain why Pozuelo sat… but, then I thought about it, and remembered that Benezet likes to cut inside (has played AM, in past, a la Oso); that and the need for a bit more defensive balance, I could see it working out.

    Still… feels like it's Vanney against the world, reading between the lines and judging from his body-language, in the post-match interview. The few times, Vanney's had an edge about him, in his stint as manager for us, he's mostly done well, to my memory; here's hoping that whatever's happening behind the scenes galvanizes him, and by extension the players, as he negotiates a significant increase in pressure.

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    After a day to think, it looked like the players all were playing for something last night. Perhaps they knew what the stakes were regarding Vanney's job and wanted to perform for the coach. Regardless, there was an intensity that hasn't been there most times this season. They all just seemed... sharper. And with Fraser announced as Rapids coach today, the die is well and truly cast for the rest of the season. Seven games left to gel into form.

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    Good atmosphere. Too bad the south end was out of sync.

    i was sitting in 111 and everyone was into it, but 112 has to get rid of that base drum.

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    I thought our bench was the deepest group I’ve seen this year. Even if Poz started in place of one of the starting 11... it was a good group of quality and options. Best bench this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    Starting lineup was questionable, but we dominated most of the match. The scoreline flattered Montreal.

    Biggest win of the season thus far. Hopefully we can build on it.
    I agree with this post. Toronto looked like better team in this game. Montreal played very conversative and tried to counter attack, but Vanney did a good job for having the right balance on the field.

    It wasn't prettiest win, but TFC got the job done in the end.

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    I was mostly out of wifi range over the weekend. Saw the score, but didn't realizing Pozuelo didn't start. Then coming here and reading it was for "tactical" reasons!? Bizarre. Really trying to figure out what Vanney is up to. Maybe he hates his hair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I was at the game. We totally dominated and Montréal didn’t get a sniff - yes they are depleted but they also were highly motivated. A little bit of inability to finish - possession and threat not incisive.

    The guy next to me commented that players were walking in the last ten minutes of the first half after we lost the ball - overconfident perhaps - and that’s what Marky did on their goal - he gave up on his coverage. That changed after their goal with some real urgency on the pitch, just like the first 30 or so minutes of the first half.


    There was some excitement with Gallardo’s penetrating runs. I’d like to see him and Shaff on the field at the same time.

    Benezet to me plays the same position as Osorio. Looks a tidy player but now we have him Poz and Oso with similar ways of playing when what we really need is a second striker to replace Seba.

    I understand the need to play Delgado and Deleon with the two wingers given the uncertainty about their defensive skills and commitment. Brave call or crazy call; not sure. But you have to play a formation going forward that gets Poz on the field; I like 4-2-3-1 (Bradley and Marky or Deleon; Poz with Gallardo and Benezet or Oso) or 4-1-3-2 (with Benezet and Jozy up front or Poz and Jozy). Only way to get Poz and the TAMs on the field at the same time
    Benezet can play more wing (it seems)
    but I agree, all 3 are overkill.

    given we had Pozo as a DP, do you give the advantage to Benezet as the more valuable player to the team

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I was mostly out of wifi range over the weekend. Saw the score, but didn't realizing Pozuelo didn't start. Then coming here and reading it was for "tactical" reasons!? Bizarre. Really trying to figure out what Vanney is up to. Maybe he hates his hair?
    this is the first time in a long time pozuelo is not dyed blonde, that is why we won
    ever since pozuelo went blonde we have lost
    now he is back to black hair we will be fine
    ps: few people in my section said he looks like osorio now

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    It wasn't prettiest win, but TFC got the job done in the end.
    We had a number of these games in 2017 and did well. I am ok with not always looking pretty. Just get the win. Looking pretty most of time would be nice though. Haven't had enough of those this year compared to 2017. That is for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I was mostly out of wifi range over the weekend. Saw the score, but didn't realizing Pozuelo didn't start. Then coming here and reading it was for "tactical" reasons!? Bizarre. Really trying to figure out what Vanney is up to. Maybe he hates his hair?
    we started playing like shit when he bottled his head so glad he cut that blonde off (no offense to blondes but the correlation is too great).

    Interesting thing was that we looked cohesive even with the 3 subs. Often times a sub takes our team from performing together to performing keystone cops enactments.

    hopefully the goals from the 2017 crowd will get everyone to open up their shooting boots and start potting some more goals. We controlled the game against a terrible Montreal side but a few more goals would have been great. The Bojan goal was coming. I saw it from a few beaten challenges before he shot it. Did you know he played for Barca too funny. coming back from that made the game sweet.

    cheers ya'll

 

 

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