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  1. #241
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    Just wanted to add that Chapman played a significant role in the 2nd Houston goal. Chapman gave up on his runner, slowed down and started ball watching, before realizing and trying to recover too late. The Houston player ended up with way too much time on the wing, and put in a nice pass to set up the goal.

    I guess Auro could have picked up the guy, but he probably thought Chapman would stay with him, and Auro probably felt he needed to help his shambolic CBs instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Ur, not quite. Ciman looked pretty good this week against NYRB, and has been looking better lately. Zavaleta had been better lately too.

    I don't know that the idea that they "couldn't " play together made as much obvious sense as you say. Vanney's reliance on them was only a mistake in hindsight.
    He looks good playing next to a better defender. Something we’ve seen with Zavaleta in the past as well.

    The totality of lineup and tactical decisions last night were baffling. Why were we playing so open with a B lineup against a team that likes to hit on the counter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Is everyone done bitching yet?

    JFC... three games in 7 days in this oppressive heat and humidity. There was going to be squad rotations, last nights game goes to show us that our depth isn’t what is was like 2017 and in a salary capped league is near impossible to have. Last night showed that the following players aren’t good enough: Zavaletta, champman, ciman and Mullan. Maybe ciman can play with a better defender next to him. Champman is at best a CPL player.

    A lot of the issues with the squad composition is the fault of Bez, his last year and a half everything he did was crap and now we are seeing the effects of this. Curtis needs time, by next year at this point if he hasn’t improved the squad then yes he should go as well. Vanney is doing what he can do with what is given to him. If he would have trotted out a full line up and jozy, Omar or Bradley got hurt then all hell would have broken loose. Just think about it.

    Fraser needs to play with better players but yet he is no where near ready to replace Bradley. He slow reacting to plays and his passing is sporadic. No team in the league can win with all 3 DPs out. This team is really missing a proper 9 to back up
    Jozy. When there is no reference point up top and a lack of creativity, TFC plays side ways with no impetus to attack.

    That being said s healthy TFC is a top 3-5 team in this league and if all of the negative nancies can’t see that maybe it’s time to take up a new sport.
    LOL, orange slices for everyone! Houston also had 3 games in a week; more travel; was 1-8 away from home before the game; was missing their top scorer; and was playing in the same heat and humidity. But they played it smarter.

    There's rotating, and then there's blowing up the squad.

    Don't worry, in 2 weeks * ∞ Curtis will have assembled a great squad! And it's never Vanney's fault!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    LOL, orange slices for everyone! Houston also had 3 games in a week; more travel; was 1-8 away from home before the game; was missing their top scorer; and was playing in the same heat and humidity. But they played it smarter.

    There's rotating, and then there's blowing up the squad.

    Don't worry, in 2 weeks * ∞ Curtis will have assembled a great squad! And it's never Vanney's fault!
    Goodson's thoughts are in the extreme minority. I was going to direct you to tfc live and Toronto fc Twitter but all comments regarding last night's game have been purged.

    I have long suspected that some people on this board pretend to be fans but are really MLS empolyees designed to steer the direction of the conversation in one way or to redirect the conversation away from subjects that they do not want discussed.


    Also, without naming names look at all your trusted sources on tfc on Twitter.
    Not one has posted anything negative regarding the lineup selection. Hmm

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    Forgive my ignorance, as i’m not sure how Twitter’s search function works or can be manipulated, but I still see a boatload of negative comments.

    You just have to add “Vanney” or “Zavaleta” to a #tfclive search and it all comes up.

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    Anyone who knows Twitter culture realizes that Twitter is not reflective of real life, so you can't argue it as an objective source. For all you know half the critical posts could be from Impact supporters. It's how Twitter is.

    I don't think there are many MLSE employees on here. I personally have met people on both sides of supporting and hating Vanney. These are real people not MLSE trolls.

    Now the official TFC media (eg Gareth Wheeler) is completely different and has the flavour of Soviet propaganda in the past. That should be taken with a grain of salt (or maybe a kilo of salt).

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Goodson's thoughts are in the extreme minority. I was going to direct you to tfc live and Toronto fc Twitter but all comments regarding last night's game have been purged.

    I have long suspected that some people on this board pretend to be fans but are really MLS empolyees designed to steer the direction of the conversation in one way or to redirect the conversation away from subjects that they do not want discussed.


    Also, without naming names look at all your trusted sources on tfc on Twitter.
    Not one has posted anything negative regarding the lineup selection. Hmm

    Hahahaha... Everything is a conspiracy.. Vanney must have put $100k on them to lose.

    Most of you weren’t here when we were shit, I have been here since day 1 witness more disfunction then anything that’s happened in the last two years: Mo Johnston, Dero saga, Preki, Mariner etc.... those were dark days, so whatever enjoy your bitching. Sports are a distraction to real life and if you have to make shit up (I’m a corporate shill) and again maybe it’s time to find something else to watch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    LOL, orange slices for everyone! Houston also had 3 games in a week; more travel; was 1-8 away from home before the game; was missing their top scorer; and was playing in the same heat and humidity. But they played it smarter.

    There's rotating, and then there's blowing up the squad.

    Don't worry, in 2 weeks * ∞ Curtis will have assembled a great squad! And it's never Vanney's fault!
    The fucking entitlement from you and a lot of other people on this board is a joke. It’s funny that the people you bash all get paid to do their jobs and you being the keyboard warrior Know better then all of them??? That’s why you pay to watch the games. You all sound like USMNT fans.

    Again objectively this squad issues is on Bez... but the easy or lazy narrative is to blame Curtis. He’s had a whole 6-7 months a winter market and a salary cap that wasn’t in the best shape. But yeah the coach is at fault as he doesn’t have the tools. We could have Zidane, Klopp or Pep and it wouldn’t matter as we have starting 11 that can compete with any team, but the squad 14-30 is terrible.

    that’s the reality of the MLS if you can’t or won’t understand this then maybe just stick to watching what ever other leagues you are watch as this league isn’t for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Hahahaha... Everything is a conspiracy.. Vanney must have put $100k on them to lose.

    Most of you weren’t here when we were shit, I have been here since day 1 witness more disfunction then anything that’s happened in the last two years: Mo Johnston, Dero saga, Preki, Mariner etc.... those were dark days, so whatever enjoy your bitching. Sports are a distraction to real life and if you have to make shit up (I’m a corporate shill) and again maybe it’s time to find something else to watch
    Don’t take it too harshly. There are a lot of wingnut responses on here; just read everything as though it were written by “that uncle” who has since been disallowed from attending family events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Hahahaha... Everything is a conspiracy.. Vanney must have put $100k on them to lose.

    Most of you weren’t here when we were shit, I have been here since day 1 witness more disfunction then anything that’s happened in the last two years: Mo Johnston, Dero saga, Preki, Mariner etc.... those were dark days, so whatever enjoy your bitching. Sports are a distraction to real life and if you have to make shit up (I’m a corporate shill) and again maybe it’s time to find something else to watch

    Respectfully, what a stupid comment. You don't know when people started following TFC, you just know when they joined the board.

    Although, not all us joined the forum day 1, we have been going to Shoeless since very early days, been suffering throughout and can relate. What the major beef is that, TFC is a pimple on the MLSE revenue and expense lines. We saw what a winner could do for a city and a fan base. To be competitive now is the mandate and why not be a bigger spending team (they can afford it). It generates great content for the media outlets and TFC has one of the most vocal and loyal fan bases. You go to the game and you don't sit on your ass and have fun. The fans deserve more than what we got yesterday.

    To put a competitive team on the field is challenging but not impossible.... from a coaching perspective, we put our two weakest defenders on with an inexperienced but getting better holding midfielder in Fraser. All three goals were shit, it looked like 2017. We dominate the play and then let a counter attack destroy us. He should have then let Bono play to be consistent and hang out to dry as well.

    We had momentum ... Vanney needs to stand up and say, I tried to rest people but clearly I f--ked up in my selection and then maybe I would give him some props. This isn't 2010 when we had no depth in players, we have the bench and the people to avoid this type of a shit show now. We better come out strong next week against Cinci.

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    One last thing... go watch the interviews with the players. They all said they came out flat, how is that on Vanney? At the end of the day the players are the ones on the pitch, Vanney can only do so much. If those players don’t execute the game plan then they shouldn’t be on the on the pitch. Vanney made changes at half because certain players weren’t performing as expected and unfortunately there are only 3 subs and due to the first half he had to make changes offensively instead of tweaking the backend as they were down 2 at half

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Hahahaha... Everything is a conspiracy.. Vanney must have put $100k on them to lose.

    Most of you weren’t here when we were shit, I have been here since day 1 witness more disfunction then anything that’s happened in the last two years: Mo Johnston, Dero saga, Preki, Mariner etc.... those were dark days, so whatever enjoy your bitching. Sports are a distraction to real life and if you have to make shit up (I’m a corporate shill) and again maybe it’s time to find something else to watch
    The smoking gun was mavinga not playing. This is how you know he threw the game in my opinion.
    Of course throwing the game,not throwing the game is an unprovable thing.

    The provable fact is the lineup put out on the field was not one that could have won the game.
    This is not a conspiracy.
    Last edited by stevep; 07-21-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  13. #253
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    For the record, I'm not calling for Vanney's head. I just think he made a major blunder that wasn't called for under the circumstances, and at home no less. Squad rotation is a must at this time of year, but he clearly went overboard and didn't give us much of a chance last night. Hopefully, it was a lesson learned.

    I still believe he is more than capable of leading a healthy TFC squad moving forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Respectfully, what a stupid comment. You don't know when people started following TFC, you just know when they joined the board.

    Although, not all us joined the forum day 1, we have been going to Shoeless since very early days, been suffering throughout and can relate. What the major beef is that, TFC is a pimple on the MLSE revenue and expense lines. We saw what a winner could do for a city and a fan base. To be competitive now is the mandate and why not be a bigger spending team (they can afford it). It generates great content for the media outlets and TFC has one of the most vocal and loyal fan bases. You go to the game and you don't sit on your ass and have fun. The fans deserve more than what we got yesterday.

    To put a competitive team on the field is challenging but not impossible.... from a coaching perspective, we put our two weakest defenders on with an inexperienced but getting better holding midfielder in Fraser. All three goals were shit, it looked like 2017. We dominate the play and then let a counter attack destroy us. He should have then let Bono play to be consistent and hang out to dry as well.

    We had momentum ... Vanney needs to stand up and say, I tried to rest people but clearly I f--ked up in my selection and then maybe I would give him some props. This isn't 2010 when we had no depth in players, we have the bench and the people to avoid this type of a shit show now. We better come out strong next week against Cinci.
    The only stupid thing on this board is the lack of nuance is with regard to how the mls operates and the ability to field a strong starting 11 when you have to load management the 4-5 of your top salaried players.

    Everyone blames Vanney and not the players. They are professional athletes that get paid and if they aren’t good enough or had a bad day why don’t they raise their hand and say my bad, i was terrible today. But no
    its always on Vanney

    with respect to the day 1 comment that was a reply to call me a corporate shill. But at the end of the day As I said before our starting lineup is contender worthy, the world isn’t ending we will make the playoffs. Everything needs perspective and most people here lack that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Respectfully, what a stupid comment. You don't know when people started following TFC, you just know when they joined the board.

    Although, not all us joined the forum day 1, we have been going to Shoeless since very early days, been suffering throughout and can relate. What the major beef is that, TFC is a pimple on the MLSE revenue and expense lines. We saw what a winner could do for a city and a fan base. To be competitive now is the mandate and why not be a bigger spending team (they can afford it). It generates great content for the media outlets and TFC has one of the most vocal and loyal fan bases. You go to the game and you don't sit on your ass and have fun. The fans deserve more than what we got yesterday.

    To put a competitive team on the field is challenging but not impossible.... from a coaching perspective, we put our two weakest defenders on with an inexperienced but getting better holding midfielder in Fraser. All three goals were shit, it looked like 2017. We dominate the play and then let a counter attack destroy us. He should have then let Bono play to be consistent and hang out to dry as well.

    We had momentum ... Vanney needs to stand up and say, I tried to rest people but clearly I f--ked up in my selection and then maybe I would give him some props. This isn't 2010 when we had no depth in players, we have the bench and the people to avoid this type of a shit show now. We better come out strong next week against Cinci.
    TFC already is a big spending team in this league, but the “pimple” comment is just as apt for TFC’s relevance to media. If we spent double the second place team the media numbers would still be bad, so it doesn’t really matter.

    Other teams spend less and get better results, so that’s not even a good reason to spend a lot of money.

    We honestly don’t have very great bench players either at this point either (partially because a lot of them are overpaid).

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    The smoking gun was mavinga not playing. This is how you know he threw the game.
    the earth is flat as well right...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    the earth is flat as well right...
    Illuminati flat Earth is so few years ago. Now the term to use is the matrix.

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    Going through our season and looking at lineups... holy crap Zavaleta has been an absolute disaster. He's started 11 games and we've given up 2 or 3 goals in every single one except the scoreless draw vs. DC. He's actually unplayable at this point. Thankfully, assuming he signed the standard 2+1 extension after 2017, we can decline his option at the end of this year.

    Ciman has basically been able to tread water with a good partner and has sunk otherwise. Obviously not worth his pay grade. Hopefully we only signed him for 1 year, though I guess he could probably be moved to France or Belgium if it comes to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Is everyone done bitching yet?

    JFC... three games in 7 days in this oppressive heat and humidity. There was going to be squad rotations, last nights game goes to show us that our depth isn’t what is was like 2017 and in a salary capped league is near impossible to have. Last night showed that the following players aren’t good enough: Zavaletta, champman, ciman and Mullan. Maybe ciman can play with a better defender next to him. Champman is at best a CPL player.

    A lot of the issues with the squad composition is the fault of Bez, his last year and a half everything he did was crap and now we are seeing the effects of this. Curtis needs time, by next year at this point if he hasn’t improved the squad then yes he should go as well. Vanney is doing what he can do with what is given to him. If he would have trotted out a full line up and jozy, Omar or Bradley got hurt then all hell would have broken loose. Just think about it.

    Fraser needs to play with better players but yet he is no where near ready to replace Bradley. He slow reacting to plays and his passing is sporadic. No team in the league can win with all 3 DPs out. This team is really missing a proper 9 to back up
    Jozy. When there is no reference point up top and a lack of creativity, TFC plays side ways with no impetus to attack.

    That being said s healthy TFC is a top 3-5 team in this league and if all of the negative nancies can’t see that maybe it’s time to take up a new sport.
    Chapman played well. He’s just not a winger. He’s an inside player where his touch and close play are an asset and his weakness - lack of pace - is less critical.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 07-21-2019 at 12:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    TFC already is a big spending team in this league, but the “pimple” comment is just as apt for TFC’s relevance to media. If we spent double the second place team the media numbers would still be bad, so it doesn’t really matter.

    Other teams spend less and get better results, so that’s not even a good reason to spend a lot of money.

    We honestly don’t have very great bench players either at this point either (partially because a lot of them are overpaid).
    The teams that spend less and get better results have a better academy than we do. The reason why we trod out nephew as our depth CB is because no one down in the farm is remotely ready to take first team minutes.

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    I don’t agree that it’s hindsight. We were saying uh oh from when the line up was announced. It’s not Zavs or Ciman or Fraser but the lack of OG or Moor or Bradley or Marky that was the problem. Obvious to us from when the lineup was announced. Why not obvious to the coach?
    Last edited by MightyDM; 07-21-2019 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    The teams that spend less and get better results have a better academy than we do. The reason why we trod out nephew as our depth CB is because no one down in the farm is remotely ready to take first team minutes.
    I’m aware of that, though it doesn’t explain why teams that spend less and also don’t have good academies outperform us as well.

    Plus spending as much as we did also got us into other problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Don’t take it too harshly. There are a lot of wingnut responses on here; just read everything as though it were written by “that uncle” who has since been disallowed from attending family events.
    I am not the crazy uncle think of me as Morpheus.

    watch this video is only two minutes and 40 seconds. it is an absolutely amazing scene is the movie the matrix

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    I am not the crazy uncle think of me as Morpheus.

    watch this video is only two minutes and 40 seconds. it is an absolutely amazing scene is the movie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4
    Thank you for that thought provoking video. I raise you a “How Can Mirrors Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Chapman played well. He’s just not a winger. He’s an inside player where his touch and co trim are an asset and his weakness - lack of pace - is less critical.
    I think his pace is acceptable. He’s not fast but not slow either by any means.

    Missing from his game is getting stuck-in more often. If he’d battle it out with the type of tenacity we saw from Osorio when he was trying to get back into the lineup, we’d actually be getting somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think his pace is acceptable. He’s not fast but not slow either by any means.

    Missing from his game is getting stuck-in more often. If he’d battle it out with the type of tenacity we saw from Osorio when he was trying to get back into the lineup, we’d actually be getting somewhere.
    He’s too indecisive and plays like he’s scared. That’s my issue with him.

    If you look at iPod Shuffle you’ll see the difference between a guy who is going all out and a guy scared to make tackles or go in on a defender.

    He has looked okay as a backup in the creative mid role at times in the past, but again he’s not really getting any better and he really isn’t a solution on the wing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    He’s too indecisive and plays like he’s scared. That’s my issue with him.

    If you look at iPod Shuffle you’ll see the difference between a guy who is going all out and a guy scared to make tackles or go in on a defender.

    He has looked okay as a backup in the creative mid role at times in the past, but again he’s not really getting any better and he really isn’t a solution on the wing.
    I’m not particularly sure what Chapman’s future is on this team either. It’s a numbers game in midfield right now and opportunities to play are slim.

    That said, nobody in the shuttler-type role is playing particularly well. It’s there to be taken for someone that wants in. Delgado, Osorio, DeLeon (who we occasionally use there), have all been pretty meddling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    For the record, I'm not calling for Vanney's head. I just think he made a major blunder that wasn't called for under the circumstances, and at home no less. Squad rotation is a must at this time of year, but he clearly went overboard and didn't give us much of a chance last night. Hopefully, it was a lesson learned.

    I still believe he is more than capable of leading a healthy TFC squad moving forward.
    This is where I am.

    No way do I think that the people who are upset are “wrong”. We spend more than anyone and are a 500 team. There is plenty to criticize. My personal belief is that Vanney’s Man City infatuation is clouding his judgment- nobody in MLS can be that team.

    Vanney btw did the exact same thing he did last night in 2016 and 2017, and it worked.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-21-2019 at 12:46 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think his pace is acceptable. He’s not fast but not slow either by any means.

    Missing from his game is getting stuck-in more often. If he’d battle it out with the type of tenacity we saw from Osorio when he was trying to get back into the lineup, we’d actually be getting somewhere.
    That’s fair. Another post pointed out how some of the aggression has been coached out of players like Chapman. Not sure of the accuracy of that but it’s fair to say players trying to break in can be hesitant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    The only stupid thing on this board is the lack of nuance is with regard to how the mls operates and the ability to field a strong starting 11 when you have to load management the 4-5 of your top salaried players.

    Everyone blames Vanney and not the players. They are professional athletes that get paid and if they aren’t good enough or had a bad day why don’t they raise their hand and say my bad, i was terrible today. But no
    its always on Vanney

    with respect to the day 1 comment that was a reply to call me a corporate shill. But at the end of the day As I said before our starting lineup is contender worthy, the world isn’t ending we will make the playoffs. Everything needs perspective and most people here lack that
    Thats a fair response, who knows perhaps Mavinga had a knock. What I am saying is that I could see 1, 2 or even 3 significant players being rested. But we had Poz (Injury), Gallardo (Knock), OG (Rest), Bradley (Rest), Jozy (Rest), Moore (Injury-Almost Ready), Laryea (One could argue, player for player exchange), Delgado. That is pretty drastic.

    On the point the world wasn't ending, I thought the same thing this time last year and was glad we went for it, but we may need the 3 points in October, playoffs are not guaranteed. There is no reason, we shouldn't make it and when healthy we can make a deep run but remember it is a one game knock-out this fall.

    See you at Shoeless on Saturday.

    COYRs

 

 

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