View Poll Results: Do you like VAR?

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  • VAR is a positive improvement

    2 5.26%
  • VAR is a good idea but badly implemented

    25 65.79%
  • VAR ruins the game

    11 28.95%
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  1. #1
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    Default VAR evaluation thread

    Loving it? Hating it?


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    Recency bias aside, with or without VAR, someone is going to get screwed over. Imagine Laryea getting a red card because the ref believed there was sufficient contact to warrent a second card, but VAR reveals that it was in fact a dive.

    VAR isn't without fault, because the guy behind the monitor is still human, with their biases.

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    You expect a rational, leveled response with this one!?

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    It's obvious that almost everybody will respond: "VAR is a good idea but badly implemented" (myself included).

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    #VARout

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    They told us VAR would end controversy. It doesnít. And it wonít because much of what is reviewed is subjective, even seemingly objective things like hand ball and offside are not objective.

    They told us it wouldnít delay games. It does.

    They told us it would only be used for clear and obvious errors. It isnít; it is being used to re-referee games.

    They told us it wouldnít interfere with play; it does. For example, they have instructed linesman to not raise the flag for offsides in order to deal with the fact that VAR is inherently unfair in that it can review not called offsides but not wrongly called ones. So play continue when it should stop. Often.

    None of these are implementation errors. They are endemic to VAR. For example, if you try to be more thoughtful about offsides (when is a player interfering with play is a question that could be debated endlessly, for example) you will slow the game down even more through even lengthier VAR reviews.

    The biggest problem for me is that VAR is creating a situation where some parts of the game are held to a standard of perfection that the rest of the game isnít and cannot be. The non call on the foul on Laryea followed by a VAR penalty is the perfect example of what results. Let alone celebrating a win called back by VAR - those spontaneous eruptions of joy are part of soccer and VAR repeatedly kills them.

    If if they had a Hawkeye system for offsides with cameras zipping up and down the touchline somehow, Iíd be all in favour. But using video review for judgment calls is a failure and the sooner the game realizes it the better.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 07-01-2019 at 05:18 PM.

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    Some of the controversial calls last week, including the non-call for TFC/DC. Most of them involved VAR, sometimes right and often wrong.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Some of the controversial calls last week, including the non-call for TFC/DC. Most of them involved VAR, sometimes right and often wrong.
    Thanks for posting this video; I was planning to do the same. What I find astounding: Wiebe & Warshaw work for the league. But based on listening to that piece, they apparently aren't aware of the new FIFA handball interpretations. They mention factors that are no longer supposed to play a role in handball determination. I know that these "Instant Replay" shows are often hot takes that are more about grabbing attention than being accurate. But to be so wrong on a basic rule which is crucial and much-discussed at the moment, is really inexcusable.

    I had hopes for VAR, but events of the last few months really make me question it. Thinking of everything already mentioned about TFC's recent games; also the non-reviewed handball in the box by the US women's soccer team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    They told us VAR would end controversy. It doesnít. And it wonít because much of what is reviewed is subjective, even seemingly objective things like hand ball and offside are not objective.

    They told us it wouldnít delay games. It does.

    They told us it would only be used for clear and obvious errors. It isnít; it is being used to re-referee games.

    They told us it wouldnít interfere with play; it does. For example, they have instructed linesman to not raise the flag for offsides in order to deal with the fact that VAR is inherently unfair in that it can review not called offsides but not wrongly called ones. So play continue when it should stop. Often.

    None of these are implementation errors. They are endemic to VAR. For example, if you try to be more thoughtful about offsides (when is a player interfering with play is a question that could be debated endlessly, for example) you will slow the game down even more through even lengthier VAR reviews.

    The biggest problem for me is that VAR is creating a situation where some parts of the game are held to a standard of perfection that the rest of the game isnít and cannot be. The non call on the foul on Laryea followed by a VAR penalty is the perfect example of what results. Let alone celebrating a win called back by VAR - those spontaneous eruptions of joy are part of soccer and VAR repeatedly kills them.

    If if they had a Hawkeye system for offsides with cameras zipping up and down the touchline somehow, Iíd be all in favour. But using video review for judgment calls is a failure and the sooner the game realizes it the better.
    All four points you made at the beginning are related to its implementation. Part of that implementation is the way itís used, how, and by who.

    There are fundamental issues with having a centre ref walk over to a TV and watch film multiple times, for example. Thatís an implementation issue due to technological restrictions or whatever, and it does a lot of the things youíve stated are inherent to VAR. It isnít inherent to VAR though, just this implementation.

    The idea of VAR is good, the fact that different places use different forms in different ways and interpret itís use differently show that itís more in the implementation than the idea of VAR in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Some of the controversial calls last week, including the non-call for TFC/DC. Most of them involved VAR, sometimes right and often wrong.

    What did they say about the hand ball call on DeLeon?

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    Loved the idea, HATE the implementation. Would rather see the experiment end at this point.

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    Canít buy the implementation idea because the pints I made above will always be true, no matter how it is implemented. But here is a suggestion: VAR official has the power to over rule the referee but only if it is so bloody obvious there is no delay to the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    They told us VAR would end controversy. It doesnít. And it wonít because much of what is reviewed is subjective, even seemingly objective things like hand ball and offside are not objective.

    They told us it wouldnít delay games. It does.

    They told us it would only be used for clear and obvious errors. It isnít; it is being used to re-referee games.

    They told us it wouldnít interfere with play; it does. For example, they have instructed linesman to not raise the flag for offsides in order to deal with the fact that VAR is inherently unfair in that it can review not called offsides but not wrongly called ones. So play continue when it should stop. Often.

    None of these are implementation errors. They are endemic to VAR. For example, if you try to be more thoughtful about offsides (when is a player interfering with play is a question that could be debated endlessly, for example) you will slow the game down even more through even lengthier VAR reviews.

    The biggest problem for me is that VAR is creating a situation where some parts of the game are held to a standard of perfection that the rest of the game isnít and cannot be. The non call on the foul on Laryea followed by a VAR penalty is the perfect example of what results. Let alone celebrating a win called back by VAR - those spontaneous eruptions of joy are part of soccer and VAR repeatedly kills them.

    If if they had a Hawkeye system for offsides with cameras zipping up and down the touchline somehow, Iíd be all in favour. But using video review for judgment calls is a failure and the sooner the game realizes it the better.
    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    All four points you made at the beginning are related to its implementation. Part of that implementation is the way itís used, how, and by who.

    There are fundamental issues with having a centre ref walk over to a TV and watch film multiple times, for example. Thatís an implementation issue due to technological restrictions or whatever, and it does a lot of the things youíve stated are inherent to VAR. It isnít inherent to VAR though, just this implementation.

    The idea of VAR is good, the fact that different places use different forms in different ways and interpret itís use differently show that itís more in the implementation than the idea of VAR in general.
    While technically "implementation errors" the four points and how they no longer apply are actually an example of scope creep.

    There has been no benefits analysis on the VAR as currently used to see if the four points that were promised are actually being delivered. The increase in use of VAR is inherent in its being there at all. People can't resist in saying "if we just take a little bit more, we get *this*" and soon enough the actual use bears no resemblance to what it was intended to do.

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    The fact that players can seemingly complain to the ref until a play is reviewed should be an obvious red flag to the league. Pretty sure VAR is NOT supposed to be Ďlobbiedí into use on the field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    The fact that players can seemingly complain to the ref until a play is reviewed should be an obvious red flag to the league. Pretty sure VAR is NOT supposed to be Ďlobbiedí into use on the field.
    If you look at the recent big VAR mistakes, issues, and stupidity, probably all of them are just on officials and their use of VAR and not the existence of VAR or the idea of VAR in general.

    Plus, you canít expect football federations, leagues, FIFA, etc. to ever implement things properly because, well... would you trust most of them to do anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Some of the controversial calls last week, including the non-call for TFC/DC. Most of them involved VAR, sometimes right and often wrong.

    Wow shocking. In what world is that a foul by the Seattle player. Complete 50/50 ball in which the Seattle player gets to the ball and shoots it first.
    Holy cow this is just as bad as the TOR/DC one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    While technically "implementation errors" the four points and how they no longer apply are actually an example of scope creep.

    There has been no benefits analysis on the VAR as currently used to see if the four points that were promised are actually being delivered. The increase in use of VAR is inherent in its being there at all. People can't resist in saying "if we just take a little bit more, we get *this*" and soon enough the actual use bears no resemblance to what it was intended to do.
    Spot on. Well said.

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    I feel like the 4th referee only is supposed to be looking at VAR. The game flow shouldn't be interrupted. Then if a call has to be overturned it could be overturned while the play continues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Thanks for posting this video; I was planning to do the same. What I find astounding: Wiebe & Warshaw work for the league. But based on listening to that piece, they apparently aren't aware of the new FIFA handball interpretations. They mention factors that are no longer supposed to play a role in handball determination. I know that these "Instant Replay" shows are often hot takes that are more about grabbing attention than being accurate. But to be so wrong on a basic rule which is crucial and much-discussed at the moment, is really inexcusable.
    MLS isn't using the new IFAB rules yet. That probably has something to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magmadragon View Post
    MLS isn't using the new IFAB rules yet. That probably has something to do with it.
    Oh that's interesting, I thought I had heard that from announcers. Maybe they're confused too. Plus I've seen some really marginal handball calls in MLS in the past few weeks; I feel like they've been influenced by the new rules already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Oh that's interesting, I thought I had heard that from announcers. Maybe they're confused too. Plus I've seen some really marginal handball calls in MLS in the past few weeks; I feel like they've been influenced by the new rules already.
    Full disclosure, I may be mistaken and missed an announcement, but the league didn't want to implement them partway into a season. Supposed to be used starting next season.

    That said the league has made lots of changes over the years during the season. Hell VAR was added in I believe August 2017.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by magmadragon View Post
    MLS isn't using the new IFAB rules yet. That probably has something to do with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Oh that's interesting, I thought I had heard that from announcers. Maybe they're confused too. Plus I've seen some really marginal handball calls in MLS in the past few weeks; I feel like they've been influenced by the new rules already.
    The CPL is the first league in the world to apply the new rules. Perhaps you are remembering hearing something in that context.


 

 

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