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  1. #121
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    Counterpoint

    Full squad, we are in with a chance that game. (missing 5 starters if you count Auro)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    and another thing...those that get offended when other “big four” sports fans...really MLS is bush league. What other major sport would allow it’s best players to bugger off and keep on playing. Not the NHL... sorry Kawai and Lowry can’t make it tonight they are playing somewhere else. FFS. This league has to get this shit sorted out. There is no reason the Gold Cup can’t be played in the Winter. Word Cup and the Euros are in the off season.
    ry can’tFirst of all let me start off by saying I get what your saying and I agree the MLS should just shut down until at least the semi finals of the Gold Cup . If teams are still effected with player losses during the semi finals of the Gold Cup then those teams would just reschedule their game. However, let’s keep in mind that until this edition of the African Cup of Nations that just started the other day , the African Cup of Nations was always played in January right in the middle of all the big 5 European soccer leagues season, and some big time players would leave their European club teams and go play for their African countries while their club teams had to play without them. So it’s happened within the big leagues in Europe losing big players to a continental tournament smack in the middle of their club season. However, looking at that Dallas lineup last night, if people on these boards would just take a bit of time to be a bit knowledgeable on some of the other teams in the MLS they would have realized that Dallas last night had three young academy produced midfielders all around 20 years of age that are already starters on Dallas dominating TFC’s midfield. TFC’s academy has produced what so far? TFC have guys like Chapman and Hamilton for example that no matter how much playing time they get can never go in there when the regular starters are injured or away and produce any type of consistent wins for the team and we saw this last season as well when players like Chapman and Hamilton had to come in for a long stretch of games and produced squat , it seems whenever guys like Chapman and Hamilton have to come in and play a stretch of games the team loses .
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 06-23-2019 at 09:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Counterpoint

    Full squad, we are in with a chance that game. (missing 5 starters if you count Auro)
    Counter-Counterpoint: Dallas was also missing players, has loads of young, homegrown players playing, including 18 year old starters and a bunch of kids subbing on.

    Our young players were Fraser, who is actually 21, and Shuffleboard, who shows a glimmer at 19 but is very raw. Our other “young guys” are actually 24 and should be reliable at this point — they aren’t (young or reliable).

    Dallas spends 1/3 of our salary bill.

    We were one keeper game away from an absolute blowout.

    Dallas hasn’t beaten anyone other than a USL team by a 3-0 margin this season (IIRC), so it’s inexplicable that this team can’t even adequately play for a draw or at least minimize a loss on our budget and with the players remaining on the roster.

    Every other team seems to be able to hold TFC to a draw or beat us even when they are at a disadvantage, but we can’t even lose gracefully when we’re trying to.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Counterpoint

    Full squad, we are in with a chance that game. (missing 5 starters if you count Auro)
    If the best you can say is we might be in with a chance with a full $20M+ roster then that is underlining our issues.

  5. #125
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    This was a great example for us to see that our "farm team" needs to be playing at the top level of USL if we have a chance to limp through these spells without our big money players.

    I agree we needed to go down a level in the USL with the team we had but

    We should be improving the roster there instead to compete at the top USL level.
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  6. #126
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    There is another issue that needs to be addressed and that is how we introduce youth and newly signed players. To throw Shaffelburg to the wolves yesterday is a disgrace. You don't develop young players by throwing them in in the most hopeless away fixtures when you are goals down and the veterans have already thrown in the towel. You destroy young players that way. That is a luxury that you earn when winning.

    You bring them in, one at a time, playing with your best players around them & a full squad and be very careful of their self-confidence and mentality. That's how good teams do it. Shaffelburg would have been way better off playing a season at York9 before being gradually introduced. We seem to do that repeatedly with our young talent. There is no logic to our development patterns. Endoh made his first team debut in 2016...he played in 21 games...if he wasn't ready or good enough to play last night...why is he in the squad? He has a Senior roster spot. Are we doing the league a favour of some sort? Same with Boyd...there is no logic to his place in the squad unless it is some league signing/agreements. I really wish our sport journalists would ask some tough questions about this nonsense.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    There is another issue that needs to be addressed and that is how we introduce youth and newly signed players. To throw Shaffelburg to the wolves yesterday is a disgrace. You don't develop young players by throwing them in in the most hopeless away fixtures when you are goals down and the veterans have already thrown in the towel. You destroy young players that way. That is a luxury that you earn when winning.

    You bring them in, one at a time, playing with your best players around them & a full squad and be very careful of their self-confidence and mentality. That's how good teams do it. Shaffelburg would have been way better off playing a season at York9 before being gradually introduced. We seem to do that repeatedly with our young talent. There is no logic to our development patterns. Endoh made his first team debut in 2016...he played in 21 games...if he wasn't ready or good enough to play last night...why is he in the squad? He has a Senior roster spot. Are we doing the league a favour of some sort? Same with Boyd...there is no logic to his place in the squad unless it is some league signing/agreements. I really wish our sport journalists would ask some tough questions about this nonsense.
    Not his first match. They are using him sparingly when we are desperate. We may see him for V cup as well.

    Fine strategy by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    There is another issue that needs to be addressed and that is how we introduce youth and newly signed players. To throw Shaffelburg to the wolves yesterday is a disgrace. You don't develop young players by throwing them in in the most hopeless away fixtures when you are goals down and the veterans have already thrown in the towel. You destroy young players that way. That is a luxury that you earn when winning.

    You bring them in, one at a time, playing with your best players around them & a full squad and be very careful of their self-confidence and mentality. That's how good teams do it. Shaffelburg would have been way better off playing a season at York9 before being gradually introduced. We seem to do that repeatedly with our young talent. There is no logic to our development patterns. Endoh made his first team debut in 2016...he played in 21 games...if he wasn't ready or good enough to play last night...why is he in the squad? He has a Senior roster spot. Are we doing the league a favour of some sort? Same with Boyd...there is no logic to his place in the squad unless it is some league signing/agreements. I really wish our sport journalists would ask some tough questions about this nonsense.
    Ha. 'Journalists'.

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    Much as it pains me, I do see the argument for moving on from Vanney.

    Managers have a shelf life, they just lose their impact after a while.

    Seattle were 6-12-2 in late July in 2016. Brought in Lodeiro and fired Sigi. Went 8-2-4 the rest of the way. You know the rest.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Too bad Antoinio Conte isnt available, he would be the best foreign manager for an MLS team.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Much as it pains me, I do see the argument for moving on from Vanney.

    Managers have a shelf life, they just lose their impact after a while.

    Seattle were 6-12-2 in late July in 2016. Brought in Lodeiro and fired Sigi. Went 8-2-4 the rest of the way. You know the rest.
    Something happened last year. I don't know what it was - maybe after Mexico Seba made it clear that if they didn't re-sign him he was gone; maybe there were some bitter things said in the clubhouse at the time; maybe it is some of the contracts - but they played at a higher level than MLS through the whole CCL run and then poof! skill, organization and desire for the most part have vanished. Quite astonishing. I have come to really like Vanney and his approach, but I think he is going to have to accept responsibility for this. Which means if they don't start playing well as soon as Jozy is back, he is going to be replaced. Just because Gregory VdW was apparently difficult, doesn't mean he was wrong.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 06-23-2019 at 11:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Something happened last year. I don't know what it was - maybe after Mexico Seba made it clear that if they didn't re-sign him he was gone; maybe there were some bitter things said in the clubhouse at the time; maybe it is some of the contracts - but they played at a higher level than MLS through the whole CCL run and then poof! skill, organization and desire for the most part have vanished. Quite astonishing. I have come to really like Vanney and his approach, but I think he is going to have to accept responsibility for this. Which means if they don't start playing well as soon as Jozy is back, he is going to be replaced. Just because Gregory VdW was apparently difficult, doesn't mean he was wrong.
    I just looked at the team stats. Can somebody tell me what happened to the saviour Pozuelo? Is he the real deal, or just another Spanish player who doesn’t give a shit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Much as it pains me, I do see the argument for moving on from Vanney.

    Managers have a shelf life, they just lose their impact after a while.

    Seattle were 6-12-2 in late July in 2016. Brought in Lodeiro and fired Sigi. Went 8-2-4 the rest of the way. You know the rest.
    Vanney was fine until the Portland game.
    We had 13 points over 6 games.
    2.16 PPG

    Then our top players went out with injuries and the gold cup tournament.

    Vanney is not the problem.

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    It appears nobody from our farm system is prepared to seriously step in. It could be a culture issue when players know their pecking order and not striving to win a position from the establishment. We are not developing competitors, only keeping placeholders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Vanney was fine until the Portland game.
    We had 13 points over 6 games.
    2.16 PPG

    Then our top players went out with injuries and the gold cup tournament.

    Vanney is not the problem.
    I think people have completely forgotten the start to the season with this recent spiral. It's why TFC is still in a playoff position. The loss of players is the only change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I think people have completely forgotten the start to the season with this recent spiral. It's why TFC is still in a playoff position. The loss of players is the only change.
    Which is why I gave that counterpoint.

    Dallas is a better run squad then ours & better put together but they are not a better group of players when all on both teams are there.

    We tend to buy instead of grow - problem with an organization that until recently had no decent academy structure.

    As for the TFC II team - they are not good enough as a group for USL's top division - they might be in a few years. But TFC II has been found rather then grown.

    This all takes time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I think people have completely forgotten the start to the season with this recent spiral. It's why TFC is still in a playoff position. The loss of players is the only change.
    Who has forgotten? We were lucky in three of those wins. It was literally the main topic on here, that our run of form could not hold.

    Vanney had perhaps the best record over 2016-17, but he suddenly cratered last year - he is 15-25 over the past two seasons.

    That's the bigger picture, I thought it was injuries and absences last year, but at some point you have to concede it's more than that. This isn’t Golden State getting to the Finals but failing because of injuries - we have been mostly putrid, a bad team that has no business even thinking playoffs, for a long stretch here.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    It's so boring.

    I'd rather dick around on my phone then invest time in seat games.

    Might as well move em to cpl at this rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Who has forgotten? We were lucky in three of those wins. It was literally the main topic on here, that our run of form could not hold.
    We were unlucky with the June 7th game due to terrible officiating. It was literally discussed in the match thread.

    A couple of those other games were decided on a shot hitting the post instead of in or just missing the net.

    So let's say 3 of those games were wins. Would we even be having this discussion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    I just looked at the team stats. Can somebody tell me what happened to the saviour Pozuelo? Is he the real deal, or just another Spanish player who doesn’t give a shit?
    He needs someone to finish. He cant be the one to create and finish. Even last night when he came in he delivered two great balls and no one on the other end. He needs Jozy back cause Deleon and Boyd just lack the skill to finish consistently or even just finish when talking about Boyd DeLeon had many options on the tru ball for Poz and he opted to shoot right at the keeper. Hard to judge pozuelo right now. When the supporting cast is so horrid around him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red4ever View Post
    It's so boring.

    I'd rather dick around on my phone then invest time in seat games.

    Might as well move em to cpl at this rate.
    That is what I said last game.
    I was criticized for saying this.

    Now I think what you said is starting to sink in with more people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    We were unlucky with the June 7th game due to terrible officiating. It was literally discussed in the match thread.

    A couple of those other games were decided on a shot hitting the post instead of in or just missing the net.

    So let's say 3 of those games were wins. Would we even be having this discussion?
    Probably not.

    But I'd still be worried. If that had happened,,,, we'd be the luckiest team in the league, and 18-22 since beginning of 2018. So it's not just any 3 or 5 games.

    They are failing the eye test. With the guys they have, even those not missing, they just should be better. (But I haven't watched a full game in weeks until last night... )
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Probably not.

    But I'd still be worried. If that had happened,,,, we'd be the luckiest team in the league, and 18-22 since beginning of 2018. So it's not just any 3 or 5 games.

    They are failing the eye test. With the guys they have, even those not missing, they just should be better. (But I haven't watched a full game in weeks until last night... )
    My $0.02 ... even when we have to the full first 11 on the field the performances from the supporting cast don’t inspire confidence. We are sunk the minute Altidore is not on the field or has an off game. Vanney’s tactical decisions are still extremely odd. The team looks less and less motivated all the time.

    I don’t think Vanney’s a useless manager by any means but I think it’s pretty well time for a changing of the guard here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    I just looked at the team stats. Can somebody tell me what happened to the saviour Pozuelo? Is he the real deal, or just another Spanish player who doesn’t give a shit?
    Keep the faith.
    Come July 13th we'll have jozy, Bradley Oso, mavinga, giovinco, Oscar Gonzalez, ciman, and morrow.
    We'll start kicking everybody ass

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Keep the faith.
    Come July 13th we'll have jozy, Bradley Oso, mavinga, giovinco, Oscar Gonzalez, ciman, and morrow.
    We'll start kicking everybody ass
    You just threw Gio in there for fun right?! (I agree that until July 13th there is no point watching or seriously evaluating this group (they won’t score more than 3 goals combined in the next three games), as without a healthy starting 11 on the field we have no chance to be seriously competitive - especially up front if Jozy isn’t playing at least 80% of the minutes from July 13 onwards)....

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    Ahh!!
    Quote Originally Posted by CoachGT View Post
    Men against boys.

    The absolute worst British Football term used way too much, and I am British, it so 'Hooray Henry' and all that poppycock.

    And Dallas has 4 teenagers on the pitch.

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    QeW gets 2nd team of the week honours for this match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcfans View Post
    You just threw Gio in there for fun right?! (I agree that until July 13th there is no point watching or seriously evaluating this group (they won’t score more than 3 goals combined in the next three games), as without a healthy starting 11 on the field we have no chance to be seriously competitive - especially up front if Jozy isn’t playing at least 80% of the minutes from July 13 onwards)....
    I'm fairly certain he's coming back

 

 

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