Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast
Results 241 to 270 of 377
  1. #241
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    179
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    I know what was he thinking.
    You're welcome. The truth is very hard to take for most people here.

    I can fully understand if the move saved TFC money. They are a for profit corporation. But this move cost tfc Money and pissed so many fans off.
    You think Seba not coming back was a cost saving move? I'm confused with this thread, time to move on.

  2. #242
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    2 MLS runs probably would turn into 3 and 4 runs if Gio is still on this Roster, truthfully I dont see enough fan backlash we will see what next years Ticket sales are ?

  3. #243
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    747
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JT Red127 View Post
    You think Seba not coming back was a cost saving move? I'm confused with this thread, time to move on.
    Why else would they do it other than to save money. But as I have shown, not signing gio has cost tfc money.

  4. #244
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    179
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Why else would they do it other than to save money. But as I have shown, not signing gio has cost tfc money.
    Seba got an offer that was more money than he would get anywhere else in his career, it had little to do with TFC wanting to save money. The actions of this club this season has not been one of cutting budget. I think we can agree to disagree on why we think Seba isnt here anymore.

  5. #245
    RPB 2019
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Guelph
    Posts
    792
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    now that mls has released the updated salary figures, has lost the voyageurs cup and looks like won't have a home game we can now analyze the cost in dollars of not signing seba.

    the following contains some guesstimate assumptions, some are solid figures. all figures in USD

    assume seba would have signed back for 6.5m
    pozuelo salary $3.8m
    gallardo salary $0.3m
    benezet salary $0.6m
    do not count omar as he is not an offensive player, so he is not relevant to this discussion

    2000 less people at each game in the cheap seats 2000x17x45=1.5m
    missing game 1 of concacaff 25000 season seats x$60 USD $1.5M
    missing one home playoff game 25000 x $80 USD = $2M USD
    assume we finish at least 4th with seba and easily beat mtl with seba

    cost $6.5 for seba

    expenses
    3.8+.6+.3+1.5+2+1.5=9.7m spent or lost money from less fans at game and missing concacaff game and playoff game

    whoever made the decision to not resign seba cost tfc roughly $3.2 M USD. 9.7-6.5=3.2
    if i owned tfc and this was my money i would be pissed, heads would roll
    sorry Bill had to point this out
    Let's assume we buy all your assumptions (which I think is being very generous) - if you add in all the information others have added your results are still backwards.

    Seba was never coming back for less than $7 mil.

    On the other side we have $4.7m in new salaries, and $1.67 in lost revenue ($5 million from your assumptions * 1/3 due to revenue sharing) for $6.37m in outlays. So even if we somehow managed to sign Seba for $6.5m they're still better off financially. I still don't think this move was about TFC trying to cut costs, but I don't see it costing the team millions.

    And all of that assumes Seba is the same player he was 2 or 3 years ago. Which he clearly isn't. I know he's unmotivated in his new league, but to think he'd come back here and be his old self is wishful thinking in my eyes.
    Last edited by Ben - D.O.W.; 10-04-2019 at 07:37 AM.
    TFC management changes: "like adding a new fish to your aquarium of failure." - Shakes

  6. #246
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,535
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think keeping Seba made some economic sense, but not for the arguments made above (I think almost every number in the above is wrong).. the real argument is TV. We don’t have the visibility we used to on the but I bet his absence is really felt in those numbers.

    It didn’t make much football sense, unfortunately.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  7. #247
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think keeping Seba made some economic sense, but not for the arguments made above (I think almost every number in the above is wrong).. the real argument is TV. We don’t have the visibility we used to on the but I bet his absence is really felt in those numbers.

    It didn’t make much football sense, unfortunately.
    I disagree The years before SEBA were brutal I was at BMO wondering why I supporting this team,with the arrival of Seba MB and Josy IT WAS FUN TO WATCH. This year I find myself with a lack of interest, Seba VV and the rest made the experience at BMO fun. This is what is lacking. My humble opinion says the Bill Manning miscalculated in the effects of a Seba less team. On the field on tv at the box office endorsements. After 9 years Sunday will be my last down at BMO

  8. #248
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    2,827
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it's all been a trickle-down effect. When TFC signed Seba for 7 million per season, some Juventus fans said we were overpaying for him and others wished the team had matched his salary. When Al-Hillal signed Seba for 11.5 million per season, some TFC fans said they were overpaying for him and others wished the team had matched his salary. It kind of looks like the reverse Peter Principle.

  9. #249
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    747
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben - D.O.W. View Post
    Let's assume we buy all your assumptions (which I think is being very generous) - if you add in all the information others have added your results are still backwards.

    Seba was never coming back for less than $7 mil.

    On the other side we have $4.7m in new salaries, and $1.67 in lost revenue ($5 million from your assumptions * 1/3 due to revenue sharing) for $6.37m in outlays. So even if we somehow managed to sign Seba for $6.5m they're still better off financially. I still don't think this move was about TFC trying to cut costs, but I don't see it costing the team millions.

    And all of that assumes Seba is the same player he was 2 or 3 years ago. Which he clearly isn't. I know he's unmotivated in his new league, but to think he'd come back here and be his old self is wishful thinking in my eyes.
    if it is 1/3 revenue sharing then wouldn't salaries be 1/3 also?

  10. #250
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,103
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This thread is more painful than the election

  11. #251
    RPB 2019 Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,218
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    if it is 1/3 revenue sharing then wouldn't salaries be 1/3 also?
    Salaries except for TAM and DPs are 100% paid by the league's "salary budget," which comes from the league's cut of the gate, the salary budget is actually where the revenue-sharing goes. 100% of the DP salaries above the salary maximum are paid by the individual club, but the amount paid up to the salary maximum is paid by the league. Manditory TAM players are paid by the league. Optional TAM players have the amount up to the amount the player is paid down to by TAM paid by the league, and the rest is paid by the club. It's complicated, to say the least.

    The Player's Union wants to get rid of TAM and have the league increase the salary budget (or "cap") instead. That would be a good idea.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-04-2019 at 01:15 PM.
    "Of all the things in life that don't actually matter, football matters the most." - Stuart McKeown

    Supporting since 2007


  12. #252
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I think it's all been a trickle-down effect. When TFC signed Seba for 7 million per season, some Juventus fans said we were overpaying for him and others wished the team had matched his salary. When Al-Hillal signed Seba for 11.5 million per season, some TFC fans said they were overpaying for him and others wished the team had matched his salary. It kind of looks like the reverse Peter Principle.
    Agree that 11.5 per is stupid, but Manning had lots of time to lock Seba up for another few years. When the team was in the dumps in 2018 they could of got Seba at 6.5 or 7 per but Manning sat on his ass and waited , this was his F up. Seba at 33 or 36 years old is much better than anything they will sign in a long time! The age comments that Manning made when Seba left is laughable, he burned over 20 mill on Poz who by the way is most likely the slowest player in the league!

  13. #253
    RPB 2019 Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,218
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Poz may not be a speedster, but he isn't even the slowest player on TFC, let alone the league.

  14. #254
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Poz may not be a speedster, but he isn't even the slowest player on TFC, let alone the league.
    Besides the two keepers you would be hard press to find anyone on the team he would out pace. His signing was summed up when Vanney sat him in the first half a few weeks back! Awful Manning

  15. #255
    RPB 2019
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northwest Territories (Section 226)
    Posts
    6,807
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red4ever View Post
    This thread is more painful than the election
    Seconded.

  16. #256
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,034
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NOMOTFCBSFROMFO View Post
    ... Seba at 33 or 36 years old is much better than anything they will sign in a long time! ...
    Maybe so.
    But in this case the whole front office of TFC is really poor, and they should be shown the door ASAP.

    For a salary of 5.5-6.5 million USD per year a good front office should find not one, but at least 5-6 players which would be of better value/impact/usefullness for TFC for 2-3 years than a 33-35 years old Seba. No way in hell I would offer more than 3 million for Seba if he would want to come back from the 2020 season. And even then a max 2 year contract.

    PS: Pozo was a good signing for the salary he is getting.

  17. #257
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,034
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Seconded.
    Seconded.

  18. #258
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaEatingYeti View Post
    Maybe so.
    But in this case the whole front office of TFC is really poor, and they should be shown the door ASAP.

    For a salary of 5.5-6.5 million USD per year a good front office should find not one, but at least 5-6 players which would be of better value/impact/usefullness for TFC for 2-3 years than a 33-35 years old Seba. No way in hell I would offer more than 3 million for Seba if he would want to come back from the 2020 season. And even then a max 2 year contract.

    PS: Pozo was a good signing for the salary he is getting.
    Yes but your forgetting the 10 million transfer fee for Poz they have invested over 21 million on Poz over the next three years. If you think thats good value I suggest you take a good long look at Pozs year! He has been hard to find for many games! No comparison to what Seba can bring to this team . Poz is 5 years younger but at no point will he be at Sebas level. I will take a 36 year old Seba all day long over Poz.

  19. #259
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Near the Danforth
    Posts
    373
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Why are we comparing Poz with Seba? Poz was never intended to be a Seba replacement. More like a Vv replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by NOMOTFCBSFROMFO View Post
    Yes but your forgetting the 10 million transfer fee for Poz they have invested over 21 million on Poz over the next three years. If you think thats good value I suggest you take a good long look at Pozs year! He has been hard to find for many games! No comparison to what Seba can bring to this team . Poz is 5 years younger but at no point will he be at Sebas level. I will take a 36 year old Seba all day long over Poz.

  20. #260
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,034
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
    Why are we comparing Poz with Seba? Poz was never intended to be a Seba replacement. More like a Vv replacement.
    Of course!

  21. #261
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
    Why are we comparing Poz with Seba? Poz was never intended to be a Seba replacement. More like a Vv replacement.
    Just saying why not keep Seba at 7 mil or 7.5 F give him 8 per year. Manning didnt calculate what losing Seba would mean to this team. Signing Poz for that money and resigning the always injured Josy to me shows that Bill Manning is a fool who has no idea what he is doing!

  22. #262
    RPB 2019
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    221
    Posts
    15,030
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
    Why are we comparing Poz with Seba?

    2019 Seba was never going to be 2015-2017 Seba but its a fantasy that a lot of people seem to want to believe.

    TFC, once Seba was gone, were never going to attempt to replace Seba because that's not how they wanted to build the team - but a lot of people think in terms of widget A must be replaced.

    If the Seba was replaced by Poz arguement is what it takes to allow them to believe that, then that's what they will use.



    ******

    There are lessons here IF (and I'm still not sure its going to happen) Bradley leaves for next year. I'm not sure Bradley is going to be replaced by a box to box DM playmaker. I don't think that's how Vanney wants to play. I think if Bradley goes, then we go with a true shield in front of the back four and 2 central attacking mids in Osorio & Poz.

  23. #263
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    2019 Seba was never going to be 2015-2017 Seba but its a fantasy that a lot of people seem to want to believe.

    TFC, once Seba was gone, were never going to attempt to replace Seba because that's not how they wanted to build the team - but a lot of people think in terms of widget A must be replaced.

    If the Seba was replaced by Poz arguement is what it takes to allow them to believe that, then that's what they will use.



    ******

    There are lessons here IF (and I'm still not sure its going to happen) Bradley leaves for next year. I'm not sure Bradley is going to be replaced by a box to box DM playmaker. I don't think that's how Vanney wants to play. I think if Bradley goes, then we go with a true shield in front of the back four and 2 central attacking mids in Osorio & Poz.
    Not sure why everybody thinks footballers are washed up at 32 years old. We are talking about the MLS when you have a guy like Seba who is a national team call up recently for a top European country you hold on to him . This is F in MLS.

  24. #264
    RPB 2019 Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Centre of My Bloody Universe.
    Posts
    18,912
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is still the Seba or I'm out thread? Amazing.

    Here you go

    https://alhilal.com/
    Nations League Canada vs USA Nov 15th!
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  25. #265
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    659
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Imagine signing up with a user name about Front Office BS, and every post you have is about how Seb would fix all that ails the team, and actually getting taken seriously.

  26. #266
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    Imagine signing up with a user name about Front Office BS, and every post you have is about how Seb would fix all that ails the team, and actually getting taken seriously.
    I was a TFC member for 9 years this is my last year, with the money they spend they should be near the top and challenging for MLS cup every year if you think 21 mil for Poz is wise and resigning Josy who misses about 60% of the games due to injury is smart have at it. I'm tired of being a lackey for this club. My money is staying in my pocket.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 10-07-2019 at 07:22 PM.

  27. #267
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    678
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NOMOTFCBSFROMFO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    Imagine signing up with a user name about Front Office BS, and every post you have is about how Seb would fix all that ails the team, and actually getting taken seriously.
    I was a TFC member for 9 years this is my last year, with the money they spend they should be near the top and challenging for MLS cup every year if you think 21 mil for Poz is wise and resigning Josy who misses about 60% of the games due to injury is smart have at it. I'm tired of being a lackey for this club. My money is staying in my pocket.
    The club has been in the league since 2007 and you’re out because it hasn’t satisfied your expectations after nine of those seasons.

    It always baffles my mind how little patience and how little heart some people have towards the club. It only proves you’re not a lifelong fan anyway; I believe they call them ‘fairweather’.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 10-07-2019 at 07:23 PM.

  28. #268
    RPB 2019
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Georgetown/Section 224
    Posts
    116
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    are you out as a SSH or as a contributor to the forum? Frankly, I’m fine if it’s both.

    Quote Originally Posted by NOMOTFCBSFROMFO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    Imagine signing up with a user name about Front Office BS, and every post you have is about how Seb would fix all that ails the team, and actually getting taken seriously.
    I was a TFC member for 9 years this is my last year, with the money they spend they should be near the top and challenging for MLS cup every year if you think 21 mil for Poz is wise and resigning Josy who misses about 60% of the games due to injury is smart have at it. I'm tired of being a lackey for this club. My money is staying in my pocket.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 10-07-2019 at 07:23 PM.
    Road Games: ‘16 - PHL, MTL, MTL (ECF); ‘17 - CLB, ORL, NYC, DCU, CHI, MTL;
    ‘18 - MTL, NER, OTT, ATL, MTL; ‘19 - MTL


  29. #269
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blkndkr View Post
    are you out as a SSH or as a contributor to the forum? Frankly, I’m fine if it’s both.
    Hear Hear!

  30. #270
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,650
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TFC View Post
    The club has been in the league since 2007 and you’re out because it hasn’t satisfied your expectations after nine of those seasons.

    It always baffles my mind how little patience and how little heart some people have towards the club. It only proves you’re not a lifelong fan anyway; I believe they call them ‘fairweather’.
    How long have LAFC and Atlanta been in the league? How about NYFC? Seattle? Portland?
    You may have enjoyed 7 years of humiliating incompetence and failure, labelling it “support”, instead of blind acquiescence. People watch sports entertainment for multiple reasons that do not include being attached by the hip to organization and players.

    I suffered through years of the worst football and it was Seba who changed that. I would have signed him for 20 million per season just to say thank you.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •