Ali Curtis evaluation thread

[PizzaEatingYeti]

I am left with the feeling the MLSE Board is asleep at the wheel here. The investment in the team is really commendable. What are they getting back? And why are we doing the equivalent of handing over the keys to our Ferrari to a couple of bus drivers? High quality management is the cheapest expenditure in this whole project. Find people with a vision that matches the budget, not these guys.

I think this is the crux of the matter for TFC.

MLSE being a billion-dollar corporate entity, and also owning The Leafs and the Raps plus the Argos, TFC and the Argos being the 3rd and 4th fiddle in this sports team's quartet, but this 3rd fiddle is considered very far as importance from that 2nd fiddle (the Raps). This is why I think if results are not proper compared with the investitions, too much time (2-4 seasons?) need to pass for the upper MLSE management to look seriously at TFC, and take radical measures themselves (like replacing Manning for ex.).

TFC's parent being such a corporate entity is really a double edged sword: yes, they invest in the team, they will always be probably among the biggest 6 spenders in MLS, but they will never care that much about the results corellated with this spending as would a company, or a person (some billionaire) who would own just a single major league sports team.
That will just never happen.

Once (maybe 1 year ago) I posted that if we look at spendings on everything which is TFC, our team is the biggest underachiever in MLS since it's existence. The majority of those who expressed their views on my post, said that's not true.
But I am still firmly holding that same opinion.

[noimpactinmtl]

I think this is the crux of the matter for TFC.

MLSE being a billion-dollar corporate entity, and also owning The Leafs and the Raps plus the Argos, TFC and the Argos being the 3rd and 4th fiddle in this sports team's quartet, but this 3rd fiddle is considered very far as importance from that 2nd fiddle (the Raps). This is why I think if results are not proper compared with the investitions, too much time (2-4 seasons?) need to pass for the upper MLSE management to look seriously at TFC, and take radical measures themselves (like replacing Manning for ex.).

TFC's parent being such a corporate entity is really a double edged sword: yes, they invest in the team, they will always be probably among the biggest 6 spenders in MLS, but they will never care that much about the results corellated with this spending as would a company, or a person (some billionaire) who would own just a single major league sports team.
That will just never happen.

Once (maybe 1 year ago) I posted that if we look at spendings on everything which is TFC, our team is the biggest underachiever in MLS since it's existence. The majority of those who expressed their views on my post, said that's not true.
But I am still firmly holding that same opinion.

The flip side is you end up with a Jerry Jones or a Harold Ballard type of owner. MLSE has been good for the past decade when they stay out of the way and trust their employees (Masai, Shanny and Manning/Bezbatchenko/Vanney) to do their jobs. It's when things go wrong that hands-off owners gets exposed for their lack of expertise.

[Ultra & Proud]

No idea how to embed a Tweet so:

#TFCLive goalkeeper Quentin Westberg contracted the #COVID19 virus - as did his wife Ania and all four of their young children - when they returned to Toronto from France this year, hence his late arrival to pre-season camp and his not starting any games earlier this season #MLS

The fact that Curtis held info like this so close to the vest and let a goalkeeper controversy start is ridiculous unless Westberg asked for privacy. Which he probably didn't as it's out now and it really doesn't make sense to keep it a secret anyway.

And going by my earlier Curtis time metrics, this news is coming out after roughly 2 weeks of Ali Curtis time (so 2 months for the rest of us) and after Westberg already started 2 matches and the controversy is over.

[portu]

No idea how to embed a Tweet so:



The fact that Curtis held info like this so close to the vest and let a goalkeeper controversy start is ridiculous unless Westberg asked for privacy. Which he probably didn't as it's out now and it really doesn't make sense to keep it a secret anyway.

And going by my earlier Curtis time metrics, this news is coming out after roughly 2 weeks of Ali Curtis time (so 2 months for the rest of us) and after Westberg already started 2 matches and the controversy is over.

I strongly disagree. This is medical info. Keeping this info private is an absolute expectation and no one has any right to it. I’m just glad that they’re okay and I hope this info was acquired and disseminated with consent.

[djking2]

I'm just gonna check back every now and then to see if they fired Armas yet

[ag futbol]

No idea how to embed a Tweet so:



The fact that Curtis held info like this so close to the vest and let a goalkeeper controversy start is ridiculous unless Westberg asked for privacy. Which he probably didn't as it's out now and it really doesn't make sense to keep it a secret anyway.

And going by my earlier Curtis time metrics, this news is coming out after roughly 2 weeks of Ali Curtis time (so 2 months for the rest of us) and after Westberg already started 2 matches and the controversy is over.

It all seems a little bit odd to be talking about this now. If I look at our first game of the MLS season against Vancouver and the second game against club Leon… Westberg is there, on the bench.

Did they have to hold him back a bit while he gained fitness? Sure, fair ball. But at some point that ended and they were clearly trying Bono on as the permanent starter.

Releasing this info now, after you’ve posted one win in 10 games, is just trying to re-write history.

I’ll look forward to next week’s press release how it only appeared like we played Auro at CM, but really, he was still a fullback.

[noxx98]

It's unclear how this info came out, particularly since Buffery is the only one running with this.. I know in the NBA teams have not announced who has COVID, it's been up to the players to decide whether to release it. Maybe Westberg didn't want to share the news previously for some reason. I hope in this instance it wasn't the team leaking the info and is instead Westberg finally feeling comfortable sharing things.

[jloome]

It all seems a little bit odd to be talking about this now. If I look at our first game of the MLS season against Vancouver and the second game against club Leon… Westberg is there, on the bench.

Did they have to hold him back a bit while he gained fitness? Sure, fair ball. But at some point that ended and they were clearly trying Bono on as the permanent starter.

Releasing this info now, after you’ve posted one win in 10 games, is just trying to re-write history.

I’ll look forward to next week’s press release how it only appeared like we played Auro at CM, but really, he was still a fullback.

A lot of excuses dripping out when convenient.

[Ultra & Proud]

It's unclear how this info came out, particularly since Buffery is the only one running with this.. I know in the NBA teams have not announced who has COVID, it's been up to the players to decide whether to release it. Maybe Westberg didn't want to share the news previously for some reason. I hope in this instance it wasn't the team leaking the info and is instead Westberg finally feeling comfortable sharing things.

Actually NBA does. For instance Chris Paul out for Covid protocol last week and various Scottish & English players at the Euros. Sure they shouldn't name his family but other leagues are using the term Covid protocol. There shouldn't be a stigma for getting Covid. Who cares as long as the person is okay? I had and I really don't care who knows it.

[noxx98]

Actually NBA does. For instance Chris Paul out for Covid protocol last week and various Scottish & English players at the Euros. Sure they shouldn't name his family but other leagues are using the term Covid protocol. There shouldn't be a stigma for getting Covid. Who cares as long as the person is okay? I had and I really don't care who knows it.

Covid protocol is different than having covid. Covid protocol includes just being a close contact of someone who had it. Although it was confirmed that Chris Paul tested positive later.
When the raptors had their outbreak, players self announced if they had tested positive. The team only said they were in health and safety protocol.

[Ultra & Proud]

Covid protocol is different than having covid. Covid protocol includes just being a close contact of someone who had it. Although it was confirmed that Chris Paul tested positive later.
When the raptors had their outbreak, players self announced if they had tested positive. The team only said they were in health and safety protocol.

Yes but the point is Curtis could have said that term and then there's no questions, no angst, no mystery. Didn't have to say he had it. Just say protocol then quarantine then getting into match fitness. Basically the communication sucks.

[ensco]

It better not be mgmt wanting it both ways. If it is, there's no faster way to lose the room.

What I mean by both ways: If Bono had been great, or good enough to be moved, then it's just “weren’t we smart”. But now it's “we had no choice”.

This may not be the case, but I can tell you who will know- it’s the players.

[spe18]

Yes but the point is Curtis could have said that term and then there's no questions, no angst, no mystery. Didn't have to say he had it. Just say protocol then quarantine then getting into match fitness. Basically the communication sucks.

Is a club in MLS actually required to annouce that someone is in covid protocol?

And if not, and a player specifically requests that the info not get released (not saying that this is what Westberg had requested), then does a club not have a right to honour that request?

Anyhow, since I don't believe the league actually has such requirement, and this is involving someone's personal (and their family's) health, I think it's best if we just leave it at this.

[Ultra & Proud]

It better not be mgmt wanting it both ways. If it is, there's no faster way to lose the room.

What I mean by both ways: If Bono had been great, or good enough to be moved, then it's just “weren’t we smart”. But now it's “we had no choice”.

This may not be the case, but I can tell you who will know- it’s the players.

I never thought of this but it makes a lot of sense with who is in control of our team.

[portu]

I think the only reason Armas still has a job is because the players love him. It’s actually insane that we suck this bad and players haven’t been like “fuck this”.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think the only reason Armas still has a job is because the players love him. It’s actually insane that we suck this bad and players haven’t been like “fuck this”.

I think he's a "one of the boys" type manager. He must be and from all accounts he is a nice, straight up kind of guy and people like him for that. I worked with all kinds of people at my job and I tolerated a very, very dumb and lazy guy for over a year because he was a very nice guy so I gave him a lot of leeway to grow. In contrast I had a nasty, know it all lady a couple months ago and she lasted a few weeks before I was done and she was gone.

[Bushmancan]

Has Jozy refused to train with the team, did he explicitly said something that should have him banned, if so why hasn't Jozy been fined?

Without any communications, Curtis' action say there is no role for Jozy on the team. Is Jozy even in Orlando?

Massively confused with what is going on...

I understand Jozy's silence but MLSE & Manning, come on!! Ali has created a circus....

EDIT - found this but it is two weeks old. Cant be crickets forever. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/toron...options-are-on

EDIT2 - https://www.ovaciondigital.com.uy/ma...-llamaron.html

[spe18]

Has Jozy refused to train with the team, did he explicitly said something that should have him banned, if so why hasn't Jozy been fined?

Without any communications, Curtis' action say there is no role for Jozy on the team. Is Jozy even in Orlando?

Massively confused with what is going on...

I understand Jozy's silence but MLSE & Manning, come on!! Ali has created a circus....

EDIT - found this but it is two weeks old. Cant be crickets forever. https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/toron...options-are-on

EDIT2 - https://www.ovaciondigital.com.uy/ma...-llamaron.html

As per your "edits", I believe you have answered your own question, as I was going to post this in reply:

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-fc-says-i...dore-1.1646987
"That conversation will be handled internally," he added. "It will be a club decision. And it will incorporate what I would say is the totality of the time that Jozy has been with the club, such that we arrive at a resolution that is in the best interests of the club — and moves us closer to being in a position to win a championship."
Previously the only comment the MLS club had made on the Altidore situation was that it was an "internal matter that we are keeping in-house."

[Richard]

If Ali doesn't fire him before next game he needs to be sacked as well.

Manning needs to put on his big boy pants and take some ownership here too.

[Auzzy]

If Ali doesn't fire him before next game he needs to be sacked as well.

Manning needs to put on his big boy pants and take some ownership here too.

Ali will resolve the Armas situation two weeks after he resolves the Jozy situation.

[MikeForbes]

Ali is gonna use Armas as a meat shield. But, questions are gonna start being raised by the board as to why they made the Armas hire in the first place and wasted their money. He will get one more manager hire before Manning uses Curtis as his own meat shield.

[Auzzy]

Ali is gonna use Armas as a meat shield. But, questions are gonna start being raised by the board as to why they made the Armas hire in the first place and wasted their money. He will get one more manager hire before Manning uses Curtis as his own meat shield.

It's sad isn't it? We're probably gonna spin the coaching turnstile a couple more times before things get fixed, like the bad old days of TFC. Lots of player turnover as each guy wants to bring some of his style of players. No continuity. Lots of budget money lost to panic deals, player buyouts, or even players getting banished.

[Kamp Berg]

There are a lot of reasons to fire Ali Curtis, but not finding the team new #1 & #3 CBs in the off-season is reason enough.

[benito]

Please fire Curtis.

[MikeForbes]

Yep. Time for Curtis to go too.

[FootBallAZ]

Fire Curtis ali

[rydermike]

Reason he won't be fired

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/torontofc/status/1371917649760944130?lang=ca

[Oldtimer]

From March.

[rydermike]

From March.

I know. I posted it as a face-palm and the reason he won't be fired

[DinamoTFC]

Curtis has lost the plot completely