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    Default Ali Curtis evaluation thread

    Ali Curtis was named January 3, 2019 as GM.

    Here's what he's "accomplished" so far:

    1. Drafted Griffen Dorsey. Has played 0 minutes so far.

    2. Re-signed Tsubasa Endoh. Has played 0 minutes so far and doesn't really address any needs.

    3. Re-signed Jordan Hamilton. Fairly decent as a secondary player, not a Jozy backup.

    4. Signed Noble Okello from TFC II. Has played 0 minutes so far.

    5. Signed Terrence Boyd. Underwhelming in the 6 games he's played.

    6. Signed Quentin Westberg. This is really a Vanney signing, Curtis did the paperwork.

    7. Signed Alejandro Pozuelo. Manning took the lead on this one, Curtis can't really take credit.

    8. Signed Richie Laryea. Orlando cast off. Played 3 games, underwhelming player.

    So in 4 months of work, when you exclude re-signing players, signing TFC II players, and players that should be credited to Manning or Vanney (or Bez in the case of Dorsey), he's managed to sign Terrence Boyd and Richie Laryea.

    So tell me:

    (a) Why did we sign a GM who couldn't find work anywhere else and seemed super-glad just to have a job? Couldn't we have waited and not rushed to find the first unemplyed GM who looks like a nice guy?
    (b) What exactly does Curtis bring to the table? So far the deals he's initiated look like they have failed to meet the team's needs.

    I doubt they are going to fire Curtis so soon, but so far he doesn't look like he's delivering what we need to have a successful team. I like his personality, but personality is not enough.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-17-2019 at 08:54 AM.
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    So I guess whenever a good signing is made you're just going to chalk it up to someone else's hard work? Is this a "Curtis evaluation" thread or a "Curtis hate" on thread?

    Looking at all those you've listed - there is no way those were signings done in a silo. He had to have had heavy input from others to make those signings. If not, then what you are saying is this club is in complete disarray and there is a huge amount of strife between the coaching staff and the head office.

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    Just to add to the assessment discussion - Curtis' face on the announcement of the GE deal but then the quote is from another person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Just to add to the assessment discussion - Curtis' face on the announcement of the GE deal but then the quote is from another person.
    haha, that big sign on the NW corner was a shock. Hadn't seen anything about this. So players get clean dishes and clothes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    6. Signed Quentin Westberg. This is really a Vanney signing, Curtis did the paperwork.


    7. Signed Alejandro Pozuelo. Manning took the lead on this one, Curtis can't really take credit.
    I hate these types of rationalizations and always have. He is the GM of the team and he will have significant input on every player going in and out of the club. Regardless of the optics of a particular signing and who else may have been involved it's ultimately his job to make player personnel decisions and so he's responsible for every one of them, full stop.

    Some people did the same thing with Bez and it was telling how the narrative shifted. I saw people ascribe 100% of the Defoe signing to Leiweke and then suddenly when that went south and people still had serious doubts about Bez he started being given partial credit - or blame at that point - for it. When we signed Giovinco most people saw it as another score for Leiweke, despite him having one foot out the MLSE door at that point. And again as the team improved and Bez proved his worth I saw him get more and more credit for signing Giovinco in the first place (which he deserved).

    So picking and choosing signings to make Curtis look better or worse doesn't fly if you ask me. Westberg was a good addition, Pozuelo a tremendous one, he gets credit for both and he also deserves criticism for leaving us with an extremely barebones team until the summer due to waiting on his moves and some poor depth moves he has made.

    I will say this, we've seen teams make awesome runs in this league spurned on by summer signings time and time again so I think Curtis can redeem himself yet this season, but there's no room for error now. He needs to make probably 3 significant signings in the summer window and he needs to hit on all 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    So I guess whenever a good signing is made you're just going to chalk it up to someone else's hard work? Is this a "Curtis evaluation" thread or a "Curtis hate" on thread?

    Looking at all those you've listed - there is no way those were signings done in a silo. He had to have had heavy input from others to make those signings. If not, then what you are saying is this club is in complete disarray and there is a huge amount of strife between the coaching staff and the head office.
    Huh? The only player of note on that list is Pozuelo and we know that was mostly Manning. The timing of the other signings should make it clear that those were Curtis' picks.

    "Whenever a good signing is made.." we can discuss who's hard work it is but we've been waiting ages for even a decent signing. I said it in the other thread but Curtis can't pull the trigger on anything or is stuck in RBNY mentality. If it comes down between Vanney and Curtis I'd rather keep Vanney. We know he can deliver when he has decent tools - Curtis isn't giving him shit. Why? Does he want Vanney out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    I hate these types of rationalizations and always have. He is the GM of the team and he will have significant input on every player going in and out of the club. Regardless of the optics of a particular signing and who else may have been involved it's ultimately his job to make player personnel decisions and so he's responsible for every one of them, full stop.
    That's how a GM should work... not sure if that has been the case so far. Maybe it's due to him needing to get up to speed...

    I'm hoping he will work out and build a great team. I just haven't seen it yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwade View Post
    Curtis isn't giving him shit. Why? Does he want Vanney out?
    Interesting theory. Praise Vanney as a "good coach" at the beginning, then work to undermine him so he can justify replacing him with his own guy. Wouldn't be the first time that has happened...

    A good question is the nature of the conflict Curtis had with his coach at RBNY that led to his departure. Is he more Machiavellian than he appears?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Interesting theory. Praise Vanney as a "good coach" at the beginning, then work to undermine him so he can justify replacing him with his own guy. Wouldn't be the first time that has happened...

    A good question is the nature of the conflict Curtis had with his coach at RBNY that led to his departure. Is he more Machiavellian than he appears?
    Getting flashbacks to Mariner getting Iro(left footed CB) who had lead feet trying to play in Winter's 4-3-3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Getting flashbacks to Mariner getting Iro(left footed CB) who had lead feet trying to play in Winter's 4-3-3.
    There could easily be lots of flashbacks to the Mariner/Winter days; and don't forget good ole' Earl Cochrane either. Andy Iro is but one example. How about the indomitable Geovanny Caicedo? And Mariner walking through the TFC offices, crowing & high-fiving staff after Winter got canned?

    I highly doubt Curtis is that Machiavellian; nor does Vanney appear to be as much of a fish out of water as Aron Winter at TFC. But I don't know details of Curtis' time at NYRB. At least he wasn't promised one job at TFC, and then assigned to a different one after an import was flown in.

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    I think it's not really appropriate to evaluate his signings yet. Outside of Poz, Vanneys paw prints are all over a lot of the signings. Let's not forget he is also technical director. I think Boyd is the only full on Curtis signing at present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Ali Curtis was named January 3, 2019 as GM.

    Here's what he's "accomplished" so far:

    1. Drafted Griffen Dorsey. Has played 0 minutes so far.

    2. Re-signed Tsubasa Endoh. Has played 0 minutes so far and doesn't really address any needs.

    3. Re-signed Jordan Hamilton. Fairly decent as a secondary player, not a Jozy backup.

    4. Signed Noble Okello from TFC II. Has played 0 minutes so far.

    5. Signed Terrence Boyd. Underwhelming in the 6 games he's played.

    6. Signed Quentin Westberg. This is really a Vanney signing, Curtis did the paperwork.

    7. Signed Alejandro Pozuelo. Manning took the lead on this one, Curtis can't really take credit.

    8. Signed Richie Laryea. Orlando cast off. Played 3 games, underwhelming player.

    So in 4 months of work, when you exclude re-signing players, signing TFC II players, and players that should be credited to Manning or Vanney (or Bez in the case of Dorsey), he's managed to sign Terrence Boyd and Richie Laryea.

    So tell me:

    (a) Why did we sign a GM who couldn't find work anywhere else and seemed super-glad just to have a job? Couldn't we have waited and not rushed to find the first unemplyed GM who looks like a nice guy?
    (b) What exactly does Curtis bring to the table? So far the deals he's initiated look like they have failed to meet the team's needs.

    I doubt they are going to fire Curtis so soon, but so far he doesn't look like he's delivering what we need to have a successful team. I like his personality, but personality is not enough.
    Pretty shocking when compared with Bez/Lewi.... Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t they bring us: Giovinco, VV, Altidore, Bradley, Cheyrou, Mavinga, Rohan, Hasler, and a few others I cannot remember.

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    LOL thats an odd "evaluation."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I think it's not really appropriate to evaluate his signings yet. Outside of Poz, Vanneys paw prints are all over a lot of the signings. Let's not forget he is also technical director. I think Boyd is the only full on Curtis signing at present.
    That's actually my point. What exactly is Curtis doing? I've given him Laryea as well as Boyd. Neither signing is stellar.

    Here's what Bez did in his first four months:

    Added:
    Jackson
    Gilberto
    Morrow
    Hamilton
    De Rosario
    Defoe
    Bradley

    Got rid of:
    Thomas
    Russell
    Earnshaw
    Braun
    Koevermans
    Frei
    Convey

    and just one month later he picked up Cesar on loan.

    While not all of these were good choices (losing Frei in particular), there was a lot of work to improve the club. While our roster isn't in the same state that it was in 2013, you'd expect more work from Curtis to improve the roster. Our needs are well known.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-17-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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    So this is meant to be a comparison thread it seems. Funny cause people are wondering WTF Bez is doing with Cowlumbus so far. Its way too early for this stuff, give the guy the summer transfer window at the very least before making conclusions i say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Pretty shocking when compared with Bez/Lewi.... Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t they bring us: Giovinco, VV, Altidore, Bradley, Cheyrou, Mavinga, Rohan, Hasler, and a few others I cannot remember.
    The golden age of TFC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I think it's not really appropriate to evaluate his signings yet. Outside of Poz, Vanneys paw prints are all over a lot of the signings. Let's not forget he is also technical director. I think Boyd is the only full on Curtis signing at present.
    Pozo isn’t really a Curtis signing. He was a player they’ve wanted here since before Curtis arrived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Pozo isn’t really a Curtis signing. He was a player they’ve wanted here since before Curtis arrived.
    I'm not classing him as a Curtis signing. The point is Boyd is the only one that looks like a pure Curtis move.

    Layrea was a flyer after Vanney had a look at him in camp. Curtis likely just pushed the paper on that one. The rest of them Vanney had pre-existing knowledge or relationships with them.
    Last edited by Areathrasher; 05-17-2019 at 01:45 PM.

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    For now I am not counting anything for or against Curtis. He came in cold, late on in the window and we don't know exactly what went down with certain deals.

    This summer is big test #1 and it's an easier window to work in. He screws this one up and then I guess we're doing the NYRB thing and building from academy up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Pretty shocking when compared with Bez/Lewi.... Correct me if I am wrong, didn’t they bring us: Giovinco, VV, Altidore, Bradley, Cheyrou, Mavinga, Rohan, Hasler, and a few others I cannot remember.
    Wrong Ricketts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    That's actually my point. What exactly is Curtis doing? I've given him Laryea as well as Boyd. Neither signing is stellar.

    Here's what Bez did in his first four months:

    Added:
    Jackson
    Gilberto
    Morrow
    Hamilton
    De Rosario
    Defoe
    Bradley

    Got rid of:
    Thomas
    Russell
    Earnshaw
    Braun
    Koevermans
    Frei
    Convey

    and just one month later he picked up Cesar on loan.

    While not all of these were good choices (losing Frei in particular), there was a lot of work to improve the club. While our roster isn't in the same state that it was in 2013, you'd expect more work from Curtis to improve the roster. Our needs are well known.
    Nelsen and Leiwekie had a lot of involvement in those. So not sure it's a like for like comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwade View Post
    The golden age of TFC.
    of MLSE Real Estate deals. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with anything.
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    I think Atlanta's coach has something to say about this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I think Atlanta's coach has something to say about this thread.
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    It's not fair to do a list for Curtis, given the pre-existing situation with Manning and Vanney.

    Even Boyd - he was part of the USMNT setup for years, it's not like anyone “discovered” him.

    When we trade for or sign and ex NYRB player, we'll know it was Curtis.

    There isn’t much of a point in having a separate Curtis thread, I see the conversation around him and Manning as identical. I always thought same thing about Bez btw... until Manning gave him rope in 2018, which didn’t go well

    The only thing I suspect, but am not totally sure about, is that Curtis bungled the tactics and diligence on Pozo's contract situation with Genk, which cost TFC a bunch of heartache and a couple of million dollars. But he and Manning did land a fine player there.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    It's not fair to do a list for Curtis, given the pre-existing situation with Manning and Vanney.

    Even Boyd - he was part of the USMNT setup for years, it's not like anyone “discovered” him.

    When we trade for or sign and ex NYRB player, we'll know it was Curtis.

    There isn’t much of a point in having a separate Curtis thread, I see the conversation around him and Manning as identical. I always thought same thing about Bez btw... until Manning gave him rope in 2018, which didn’t go well

    The only thing I suspect, but am not totally sure about, is that Curtis bungled the tactics and diligence on Pozo's contract situation with Genk, which cost TFC a bunch of heartache and a couple of million dollars.
    Can we have Adams then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Can we have Adams then?
    How about Miazga?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    How about Miazga?
    Porque no los dos?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Nelsen and Leiwekie had a lot of involvement in those. So not sure it's a like for like comparison.
    Was O'dea around during when Bez was hired?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Porque no los dos?
    Need two number one allocation slots.

    It's interesting. What if the sale by NYRB to Leipzig was just an accounting fiction, and TFC bid $5M for Adams this summer. Would Roten Bullen HQ take that?

    I would love to see the looks on NYRB supporters if we did that.
    Last edited by ensco; 05-17-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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