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  1. #31
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    You know, I would be okay with losing to Philly on Saturday if it means we beat them on Sunday. Having severe 2001 flashbacks here...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Westberg not Bono please.
    YES...Been focusing on Bono's distribution. It is almost as if the guy is posing for Vogue with each quick. No wonder they go astray!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Something about our idea of development at this club and squad management is terribly wrong. I hear way too much about “playing the same style as the first team” for easy integration of players. While that is an oft-used phrase by many clubs, we seem to live by it more than most.
    I think development at TFC is problematic as well. They recognized the issue of trying to play younger kids against second div lifers and MLS players needing minutes by autorelegating the squad, but now we don’t have anyone to bridge that gap except what, loans to CPL and second division teams?

    Plus it removes the ability to send someone like Hamilton or whoever down just to get minutes, because even someone like Hamilton was excelling at that level but couldn’t put it together against better opposition.

    Losing players like Kaye who turn out well is also an issue, but I remember Lovitz being absolutely awful here and now he’s okay at MTL and was even getting USMNT call ups.

    We also lost a lot of strong depth players. Someone like Cheyrou could change the tempo of the game. Our off the bench option is now Fraser who I don’t see being able to do that. There was also some variety in having a guy like Hagglund who is good in the air and on set pieces, or even players like Cooper.

    Vanney did adapt tactics in the past because he had the ability to at least choose between two formations... now we seem stuck with one that we don’t even have the players for.

    Part of the issue is really a lack of Vazquez, who was basically a 4th DP. The FO lucked out. Sure, we can stick Pozo in now, but that leaves us down a DP-calibre attacking player even when Jozy is fit.

    Think about it... Vazquez didn’t need to track back to our box to retrieve balls, Jozy was tracking back a lot, Seba stayed up top, and Bradley didn’t need to run everywhere like a madman. This also left our defense less pressured, Morrow was spectacular and Beita played well too.

    We had four people who were dangerous up front (Seba, Jozy, Vazquez, and Morrow), and you couldn’t just foul to stop us because that was almost always a goal. Now teams foul us heavily going forward and we lose a lot of momentum that way.

  4. #34
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    Great post up there Jloome. Lots of good points.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Great post up there Jloome. Lots of good points.
    I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Stick View Post
    I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.
    I've coached youth. Most kids coaches prefer fast players as it's easy to win at that level with speed. When these kids get older their coaches have a real challenge retraining them to be more technical. I know, I tried to teach positioning and they were like "let's just boot it down the field and our fast player will get it." It took a lot of patience to teach something different.

    TFC Academy and TFC2 are trying to teach their kids the same type of technical skills that they expect of the first team but I'm sure it's an incredible challenge. Some players will never be able to relearn. It's all part of why our CMNT is underperforming.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Stick View Post
    I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.
    Interesting, I would have almost said the opposite. Certainly speed is not big on their checklist. Our midfield is painfully slow.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Stick View Post
    I am pretty sure the big problem in developing players is this: Management loves athletes more than skilled players.
    Spencer was an athlete?!?!?!


    Some of our CB defender draft picks were excellent athletes who couldn't play the position technically. There was a thinly veiled Vanny interview where he basically said most North American CB's out of college are not taught how to deal with more then 1 person coming at a them - i.e. how do you deal with a 2 defenders vs. 2 attackers situation.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Spencer was an athlete?!?!?!


    Some of our CB defender draft picks were excellent athletes who couldn't play the position technically. There was a thinly veiled Vanny interview where he basically said most North American CB's out of college are not taught how to deal with more then 1 person coming at a them - i.e. how do you deal with a 2 defenders vs. 2 attackers situation.
    The college route is another thing entirely that has also led to poor development both for clubs and national teams, along with pay2play (which exists at the college level too).

  11. #41
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    GAME DAY


    **************

    So the weekly Pravda (we listen so you don't have to) indicated that Moor & Jozy spent all week training with TFCII.

    &


    Moor says he is 100%. "Calves are something I have to take care of". I think he starts which is huge. He breaks down Philly well - worth a listen to his interview with journos to understand his mind.

    https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2019/0...?autoplay=true

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    In 2017 (our year) all the commentators kept saying how we had the deepest bench in the league. Injuries did not stop us because there was always a good player available. Two years later we are complaining that we have no depth or that the depth we do have isn’t used properly or doesn’t get a chance to develop.

    I watched the second half of the Vancouver-Portland game last night and the thing that stood out was neither of those teams wasted time with constant back passes. They got the ball and quickly moved it up the field. Not recklessly. Just quickly. It was exciting attacking football without either team being able to finish. That, at least, is more interesting than our methodical slow build up without a finish. It’s like Vanney has told our players they must wait for the opposing team to set up their defense before we can go forward.

    While you watch today’s game, say out loud “back pass” and “forward pass” as the play develops. You’ll soon see that most of what our team does is start in a good position and slowly retreat into our own half. Then they try to move it forward and lose the ball to a well established defense.

    We need better tactics and better squad rotation and development. Both of those responsibilities fall on the manager.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC John View Post
    In 2017 (our year) all the commentators kept saying how we had the deepest bench in the league. Injuries did not stop us because there was always a good player available. Two years later we are complaining that we have no depth or that the depth we do have isn’t used properly or doesn’t get a chance to develop.

    I watched the second half of the Vancouver-Portland game last night and the thing that stood out was neither of those teams wasted time with constant back passes. They got the ball and quickly moved it up the field. Not recklessly. Just quickly. It was exciting attacking football without either team being able to finish. That, at least, is more interesting than our methodical slow build up without a finish. It’s like Vanney has told our players they must wait for the opposing team to set up their defense before we can go forward.

    While you watch today’s game, say out loud “back pass” and “forward pass” as the play develops. You’ll soon see that most of what our team does is start in a good position and slowly retreat into our own half. Then they try to move it forward and lose the ball to a well established defense.

    We need better tactics and better squad rotation and development. Both of those responsibilities fall on the manager.
    Like I said before, I think Vanney is trying to get them to move it faster. He mentions it often in his pressers and interviews. I just think that methodical approach is ingrained in the team and especially in Bradley. I think the only way to fix it is to have some different players in there. Players with decent pace. Hopefully a winger (or two) can help but I think we need a new mid at the base of the midfield to facilitate quicker play unless adding a winger and pushing Osorio into Delgado's spot fixes it.

  14. #44
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    I will be very pissed on Vanney if we start this match again with just a single striker.
    And the two up-front guys can be of course just Hamilton and Akinola.

    It has been demonstrated too many times this season that if we're playing with a lone starter forward other than Josy, that won't cut it...

  15. #45
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    Thank you. I wonder how hands on Curtis will be. Jesse Marsch was at odds with him over interference in NY so I can’t imagine he’ll just ignore the problem in favour of always spending more.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think you’ve hit on a number of good points here and an interesting topic overall.

    Something about our idea of development at this club and squad management is terribly wrong. I hear way too much about “playing the same style as the first team” for easy integration of players. While that is an oft-used phrase by many clubs, we seem to live by it more than most.

    We play a certain system during a game. Player A subs out, player B goes in. When player B is less established, the change is almost always plug-and-play, with no change in formation on account of their attributes. Everyone less established is thought of as needing to fit a system as opposed to the system fitting (or even slightly adjusting) for the player. It’s tough to succeed under those circumstances and it also explains some of up-and-down performances of our substitutes. Sometimes Chapman will get a role he’s suited for and look fantastic. Sometimes he gets a dog-shit assignment and everyone groans he can’t do the job.

    There needs to be more consideration of the tools we have at our disposal and getting the potential out of certain guys and less formational rigidity. We re-jig our entire lineup so Zavs can come on as a CB in a back three FFS. But can we not play Hamilton with a second striker? Find ways where Osorio and Chapman don’t have to play as wingers? These things help the team and the players.
    THis is a really good point. Tactically we’re built like a premiership squad with strength through 23 players, but what mls team can put that out there? Remember how long it took him to acknowledge we needed more than one tactical set? We played 532 exclusively for awfully long time before other teams figured it out. So yeah, he
    Might just be putting them in positions. Where they can t succeed.

    And I actually liked Lovitz. He did okay in limited time.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaEatingYeti View Post
    I will be very pissed on Vanney if we start this match again with just a single striker.
    And the two up-front guys can be of course just Hamilton and Akinola.

    It has been demonstrated too many times this season that if we're playing with a lone starter forward other than Josy, that won't cut it...
    If it's Boyd up top I will flip out lol.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think you’ve hit on a number of good points here and an interesting topic overall.

    Something about our idea of development at this club and squad management is terribly wrong. I hear way too much about “playing the same style as the first team” for easy integration of players. While that is an oft-used phrase by many clubs, we seem to live by it more than most.

    We play a certain system during a game. Player A subs out, player B goes in. When player B is less established, the change is almost always plug-and-play, with no change in formation on account of their attributes. Everyone less established is thought of as needing to fit a system as opposed to the system fitting (or even slightly adjusting) for the player. It’s tough to succeed under those circumstances and it also explains some of up-and-down performances of our substitutes. Sometimes Chapman will get a role he’s suited for and look fantastic. Sometimes he gets a dog-shit assignment and everyone groans he can’t do the job.

    There needs to be more consideration of the tools we have at our disposal and getting the potential out of certain guys and less formational rigidity. We re-jig our entire lineup so Zavs can come on as a CB in a back three FFS. But can we not play Hamilton with a second striker? Find ways where Osorio and Chapman don’t have to play as wingers? These things help the team and the players.
    Great post. Spot on.

  19. #49
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    Single striker again, Hamilton.

    Jozy only striker option on the bench.

    Oh well, we'll see.

  20. #50
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    The new blond guy looks promising..

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The new blond guy looks promising..
    Not there yet. Who has the new ‘do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Not there yet. Who has the new ‘do?
    Alexander Pottswell. He’s a new TAM winger from England.

  23. #53
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    ‘Bout time they brought a winger in...

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    I don't what's up today but we're 3 minutes in and they seem way more up for this then almost any match I've seen this season

  25. #55
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    Sure sign this makes me old but i’m Not sure I can tolerate looking at Auro and Mavinga with those haircuts.

    The smell of bleach is coming out of my TV

    Edit: oh no, they got Pozuelo too
    Last edited by ag futbol; 05-11-2019 at 02:19 PM.

  26. #56
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    There needs to be more gutsy fullback play here if we are going to break through. Everyone is waiting for somebody else to make runs and again Hamilton is on an island by himself. Pozuelo is not a 2nd forward by any stretch of the imagination

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    There needs to be more gutsy fullback play here if we are going to break through. Everyone is waiting for somebody else to make runs and again Hamilton is on an island by himself. Pozuelo is not a 2nd forward by any stretch of the imagination
    I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all. Guys seem fluid today, we just haven't had the ball enough. When we do it looks positive.

  28. #58
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    Bradley ripping into Zavelata.

  29. #59
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    Geez, stadium is half empty. What's going on?

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    Nice play there b/w Pozo and Marky.

 

 

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