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    Hopefully Tigre let Janson go but they just qualified for the Copa Libertadores even though they got relegated. I am not sure if they will be willing to let him go now.

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    TFC: Slowest team ever

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    I seem to remember a guy who played in Mexico and had a shit year, them came to TFC and was a great addition, I'll just wait and see how Omar pans out.

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    Herculez Gomez?


    Quote Originally Posted by Derko View Post
    I seem to remember a guy who played in Mexico and had a shit year, them came to TFC and was a great addition, I'll just wait and see how Omar pans out.

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    You can tell it’s been a poor 1.5 years when everyone is upset with a signing.

    Has our defence been shit? Absolutely. At the end of the day some of the best defenders in this league are the local products without pace or vision. I’m hoping Gonzalez will be able to give us the same leadership of guys like Chad Marshall, Drew Moor, Michael Parkhurst, Liam Ridgewell, Matt Hedges, Matt Besler. When I think of those guys my expectation would be that Gonzalez fits right in with them or is potentially better than all the above. Risky play for sure but getting a guy who knows the league and is coming from Mexico isn’t a bad thing.

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    I can't imagine Omar being slower than Moor. I don't see this as the best signing or use of Tam but I also don't see how this isn't an upgrade to what we had before.

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    One aspect of this that if you listen to Caldwell go on about - we currently have 3 decent enough CB's of which only 1 is first and foremost thinking as a defender- Moor. Mavinga & Ciman like to make the tackle & like to pass the ball. Moor likes to defend. Its a different skill set.

    Like him or not, Gonzalez always thinks about the defence first. He likes to defend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    One aspect of this that if you listen to Caldwell go on about - we currently have 3 decent enough CB's of which only 1 is first and foremost thinking as a defender- Moor. Mavinga & Ciman like to make the tackle & like to pass the ball. Moor likes to defend. Its a different skill set.

    Like him or not, Gonzalez always thinks about the defence first. He likes to defend.
    I look at him like a younger more athletic Moor who happens to be a giant and good on set pieces. What’s not to like? I think some people on here expect Virgil Van Dyke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikmacdo View Post
    I look at him like a younger more athletic Moor who happens to be a giant and good on set pieces. What’s not to like? I think some people on here expect Virgil Van Dyke.
    I think part of it is the USMNT bit - particularly post Boyd. Its like our scouting us "US Cap? Done"

  10. #2110
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I think part of it is the USMNT bit - particularly post Boyd. Its like our scouting us "US Cap? Done"
    OK, but i would hope people are a bit more intelligent and respectful than that. Omar is one of the best CB's that ever played in this league, lets see what he does now of course but at this point I'm very optimistic and damn pleased that our GM turned Nick Haglund into Omar Gonzalez. What a ridiculous steal!

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    The players see this stuff. They read social media. The reaction here has my blood boiling. Support the player for christsakes!

    This reaction to Gonzalez is unreal to me. So much unfair anger.

    I don’t believe a single person here really has any insight into how Gonzalez did at Atlas, and btw riding the pines in Mexico does not say anything about chances of success in MLS. Jesus, people, Victor Vazquez didn’t come here 38 years ago. It was two years ago!

    Also this USMNT stuff is overwrought. It's probably a fair criticism of the Boyd signing, but Gonzalez was an MLS stud for years. His signing is about a lot more than USMNT status.

    It may or may not work out but you can see how it's a reasonable TAM signing. We turned Hagglund into Gonzalez, I'm sorry, but that is not a bad thing to have done, pretty much anyone would, but if you read this it seems like 90% of opinion is that Gonzalez for Hagglund is idiocy.

    (As a side note, people seem to be confused about the value of these allocation order spots. They are not THAT valuable.)

    People are projecting their feelings about Curtis or whomever onto the player.... it's complete BS.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by JT Red127 View Post
    OK, but i would hope people are a bit more intelligent and respectful than that. Omar is one of the best CB's that ever played in this league, lets see what he does now of course but at this point I'm very optimistic and damn pleased that our GM turned Nick Haglund into Omar Gonzalez. What a ridiculous steal!
    It’s not quite that easy. Nick Haglund costs peanuts, Omar Gonzalez costs real money. In a capped league we can’t afford to make mistakes on bigger signings.

    Omar has to live up to his pay packet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The players see this stuff. They read social media. The reaction here has my blood boiling. Support the player for christsakes!

    This reaction to Gonzalez is unreal to me. So much unfair anger.

    I don’t believe a single person here really has any insight into how Gonzalez did at Atlas, and btw riding the pines in Mexico does not say anything about chances of success in MLS. Jesus, people, Victor Vazquez didn’t come here 38 years ago. It was two years ago!

    Also this USMNT stuff is overwrought. It's probably a fair criticism of the Boyd signing, but Gonzalez was an MLS stud for years. His signing is about a lot more than USMNT status.

    It may or may not work out but you can see how it's a reasonable TAM signing. We turned Hagglund into Gonzalez, I'm sorry, but that is not a bad thing to have done, pretty much anyone would, but if you read this it seems like 90% of opinion is that Gonzalez for Hagglund is idiocy.

    (As a side note, people seem to be confused about the value of these allocation order spots. They are not THAT valuable.)

    People are projecting their feelings about Curtis or whomever onto the player.... it's complete BS.
    I dont read these posts as criticism about Omar, but as uncertainty about him. Given continued concern about Management, which are pretty justified given the past 18 - 20 months since Beitashour was let go, people are nervous about Management's judgment. When you are thinking that its hard to see "Haggs for Omar" and easy to see "Here is another aging USMNT player".

    I am hoping he will be great. But it is damning that Ciman wasnt the solution. Someone dropped the ball there.

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    The Ciman not good enough yet thing is damning.

    The "we are getting in another guy ASAP back there" is good news.

    Fleecing Cinci to be in this position is a +.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    But it is damning that Ciman wasnt the solution. Someone dropped the ball there.
    I don’t understand criticism of the Ciman signing either.

    Ciman was a dominant player at LAFC until the day he left. That was only 9 months ago.

    But it hasn’t worked. Either the player has had a massive unexpected dropoff in performance due to age/injury, or something is wrong with the way he is being used here. I think it is the latter.

    I think one of the attractive elements of this is that Gonzalez will allow Ciman to play his game.
    Last edited by ensco; 06-04-2019 at 09:55 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don’t understand criticism of the Ciman signing either.

    Ciman was a dominant player at LAFC until the day he left. That was only 9 months ago.

    But it hasn’t worked. Either the player has had a massive unexpected dropoff in performance due to age/injury, or something is wrong with the way he is being used here. I think it is the latter.

    I think one of the attractive elements of this is that Gonzalez will allow Ciman to play his game.
    I wouldn't describe him as dominant. I think LA were happy to see him go, and Zimmerman was clearly their guy. But I think your point about how he's been used here is right. As is Caldwell's observation about having two defenders prone to adventures. I doesn't work well. Questions should really be asked of Vanney about how he approaches defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don’t understand criticism of the Ciman signing either.

    Ciman was a dominant player at LAFC until the day he left. That was only 9 months ago.

    But it hasn’t worked. Either the player has had a massive unexpected dropoff in performance due to age/injury, or something is wrong with the way he is being used here. I think it is the latter.
    You know, this is one of those things where I really never got why he had this big reputation. With LAFC he looked particularly gaf prone. I think at least 1-2 others on the board noted the same thing. Not that any of us are geniuses here but to see him continue on in a similar vein here was not all that surprising.

    Maybe i’m being harsh but that’s my honest recollection of what I saw watching him play in LA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    You know, this is one of those things where I really never got why he had this big reputation. With LAFC he looked particularly gaf prone. I think at least 1-2 others on the board noted the same thing. Not that any of us are geniuses here but to see him continue on in a similar vein here was not all that surprising.

    Maybe i’m being harsh but that’s my honest recollection of what I saw watching him play in LA.
    He always has been, even at MTL.

    That doesn’t mean he’s a bad defender, necessarily, it means that the system needs to accommodate those shortfalls in skillset.

    I always saw Ciman as being able to step in for Mavinga (who was injured repeatedly almost all year long) as a ball playing CB in Vanney’s possession system (which is something you need to play this way).

    OG was probably meant to come in during the first window but obviously they were holding out for more money or something. OG is meant to be the Moor replacement, as Moor seems close to retiring and was also constantly injured.

    Ciman doesn’t play that role, but he’s an adequate backup defender if he steps back and adopts a more fixed role when he needs to. Plus, as someone mentioned above, defensive pairings take time to gel.

    Zavaleta can’t realistically fill in for either role, as he isn’t good on the ball, can’t pass well, and doesn’t have the defensive IQ to control the back or even defend appropriately in a system with a lot of pressure on the defense.

    I think OG is a wait and see signing. He could potentially do well here. If he doesn’t, then the FO needs to question their scouting and transfer policies (they should already be). If he does do well, then good stuff.

  19. #2119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The players see this stuff. They read social media. The reaction here has my blood boiling. Support the player for christsakes!

    This reaction to Gonzalez is unreal to me. So much unfair anger.

    I don’t believe a single person here really has any insight into how Gonzalez did at Atlas, and btw riding the pines in Mexico does not say anything about chances of success in MLS. Jesus, people, Victor Vazquez didn’t come here 38 years ago. It was two years ago!

    Also this USMNT stuff is overwrought. It's probably a fair criticism of the Boyd signing, but Gonzalez was an MLS stud for years. His signing is about a lot more than USMNT status.

    It may or may not work out but you can see how it's a reasonable TAM signing. We turned Hagglund into Gonzalez, I'm sorry, but that is not a bad thing to have done, pretty much anyone would, but if you read this it seems like 90% of opinion is that Gonzalez for Hagglund is idiocy.

    (As a side note, people seem to be confused about the value of these allocation order spots. They are not THAT valuable.)

    People are projecting their feelings about Curtis or whomever onto the player.... it's complete BS.
    I would agree with this analysis. For months, many on this board have been complaining about management not making a move to strengthen our backline, then when we do, and there is some pretty harsh commentary on someone who will soon be a Red. I agree that there is some uncertainty about this move, but we are not Man City or Barcelona, with bags of money and people desperate to play here. I think this is a reasonable move, to bring in a player, on TAM, who was a force in MLS. Yes, he is a bit older now and maybe he wasn't a huge success at Atlas, but someone mentioned Victor Vazquez as another player who was not a huge success in Mexico, and I wear my Vazquez sweater proudly to games all the time!

    Yes, there is no guarantee that Omar will be a success, but any player move comes with risk. The backline is the biggest gap we have right now and I for one will be rooting for OG to fill it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    You know, this is one of those things where I really never got why he had this big reputation. With LAFC he looked particularly gaf prone. I think at least 1-2 others on the board noted the same thing. Not that any of us are geniuses here but to see him continue on in a similar vein here was not all that surprising.

    Maybe i’m being harsh but that’s my honest recollection of what I saw watching him play in LA.
    I didn’t see him very often last year, but I sure noticed that LAFC's 2018 season went into the tank pretty much the day Ciman left.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I didn’t see him very often last year, but I sure noticed that LAFC's 2018 season went into the tank pretty much the day Ciman left.
    They were suspect defensively with Ciman there too. And his head went after not making the Belgium world cup sqaud. Look up LAFC fan comments from around the time he left, he was pretty bad for the two months leading up to going to France.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I didn’t see him very often last year, but I sure noticed that LAFC's 2018 season went into the tank pretty much the day Ciman left.
    Or when Kaye and some other parts of the mid got injured. That would be the statistically backed explanation at least.

    Walker Zimmerman is an upgrade over Ciman. Don’t think that’s much of a debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    It’s not quite that easy. Nick Haglund costs peanuts, Omar Gonzalez costs real money. In a capped league we can’t afford to make mistakes on bigger signings.

    Omar has to live up to his pay packet.
    OK. Doesnt everyone? This is one of the greatest CB in league history and he's 30 years old. I think worth the "gamble" if you call it that. Nick Haglund cost peanuts because he got you peanuts, I want to be building towards a championship again and Omar wins. Track record speaks for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JT Red127 View Post
    OK. Doesnt everyone? This is one of the greatest CB in league history and he's 30 years old. I think worth the "gamble" if you call it that. Nick Haglund cost peanuts because he got you peanuts, I want to be building towards a championship again and Omar wins. Track record speaks for itself.
    He was one of the best back when we lost 9 in a row. Remember that. It was a long time ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don’t understand criticism of the Ciman signing either.

    Ciman was a dominant player at LAFC until the day he left. That was only 9 months ago.

    But it hasn’t worked. Either the player has had a massive unexpected dropoff in performance due to age/injury, or something is wrong with the way he is being used here. I think it is the latter.

    I think one of the attractive elements of this is that Gonzalez will allow Ciman to play his game.
    If he isn't being used correctly, and we have the same coach as before he was signed, it doesn't speak very well for the recruitment strategy, n'est pas? Ciman's performances are improving, but he is taking a long time to bed in for a player who is experienced in the league, long enough that they have to get Gonzalez. At a minimum they didnt expect to have to get OG when they got Ciman. There was certainly no inkling then that he was the first of two expensive CB's

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    Ciman has been terrible this season.
    What he did 9 months ago is irrelevant.
    During his time here, he has done nothing worthy of staying in the lineup.

    I am glad we got Gonzalez, whether he is or is not the same player as he was with LA, he surely is an improvement over the Nephew and Ciman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menelaos View Post
    Ciman has been terrible this season.
    What he did 9 months ago is irrelevant.
    During his time here, he has done nothing worthy of staying in the lineup.

    I am glad we got Gonzalez, whether he is or is not the same player as he was with LA, he surely is an improvement over the Nephew and Ciman.
    He hasn’t been that bad lately. I dont think he has cost TFC any goals in the last few games while MAvinga and Moor have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikmacdo View Post
    He hasn’t been that bad lately. I dont think he has cost TFC any goals in the last few games while MAvinga and Moor have.
    Overall, he cost more goals this season, has made more mistakes and is a weaker defender than them.
    There is also the fact they won us a Treble, so they get a longer pass than he does.

    Or are you honestly telling me you rather have him at the back over Moor and/or Mavinga? I sure as hell would not.

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    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    the players see this stuff. They read social media. The reaction here has my blood boiling. Support the player for christsakes!

    This reaction to gonzalez is unreal to me. So much unfair anger.

    I don’t believe a single person here really has any insight into how gonzalez did at atlas, and btw riding the pines in mexico does not say anything about chances of success in mls. Jesus, people, victor vazquez didn’t come here 38 years ago. It was two years ago!

    Also this usmnt stuff is overwrought. It's probably a fair criticism of the boyd signing, but gonzalez was an mls stud for years. His signing is about a lot more than usmnt status.

    It may or may not work out but you can see how it's a reasonable tam signing. We turned hagglund into gonzalez, i'm sorry, but that is not a bad thing to have done, pretty much anyone would, but if you read this it seems like 90% of opinion is that gonzalez for hagglund is idiocy.

    (as a side note, people seem to be confused about the value of these allocation order spots. They are not that valuable.)

    people are projecting their feelings about curtis or whomever onto the player.... It's complete bs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The players see this stuff. They read social media. The reaction here has my blood boiling. Support the player for christsakes!

    This reaction to Gonzalez is unreal to me. So much unfair anger.

    I don’t believe a single person here really has any insight into how Gonzalez did at Atlas, and btw riding the pines in Mexico does not say anything about chances of success in MLS. Jesus, people, Victor Vazquez didn’t come here 38 years ago. It was two years ago!

    Also this USMNT stuff is overwrought. It's probably a fair criticism of the Boyd signing, but Gonzalez was an MLS stud for years. His signing is about a lot more than USMNT status.

    It may or may not work out but you can see how it's a reasonable TAM signing. We turned Hagglund into Gonzalez, I'm sorry, but that is not a bad thing to have done, pretty much anyone would, but if you read this it seems like 90% of opinion is that Gonzalez for Hagglund is idiocy.

    (As a side note, people seem to be confused about the value of these allocation order spots. They are not THAT valuable.)

    People are projecting their feelings about Curtis or whomever onto the player.... it's complete BS.
    Add me to the list of people echoing these sentiments. And on a similar note, can we can the "Nephew" crap? Zavaletta was a valuable player whose form and career have taken a downturn and he's deservedly been dropped down the depth chart accordingly. I don't see any favoritism at at play but even if you do, derisively calling him "the Nephew" makes you sound like either a Grade 2 kid or a US president.

 

 

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