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  1. #1861
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^You are wrong. The buyer may have had a provisional deal in place with Fabregas or Ronaldo or whomever, but I am saying that in every case you cite above there was some interaction between the two clubs before the legal docs (usually notice of termination) were executed.

    In. every. case.

    If you think we gave Genk and additional 2M euros because we are nice guys, well... you are welcome to your opinion.
    Spanish club presidents promise players before they're elected in charge of the term. How, therefore, can they have an agreement with the club when they aren't even in charge of the team yet? They'll have spoken to the player though and verbally agreed a team. It's why transfers happen nearly instantly when the clubs agree a price.

    So. Not. in. every. case. Japp Stam literally left Man United because he publicly outed them for doing this.

    Nobody said we gave Genk 2m to be nice, we gave Genk 2m to ensure we got our man early and since we didn't want to go through some long drawn out court case to decide if a release clause was valid or not, nobody did, including Genk. It was a negotiation. Both sides had some leverage, and a price (below market value) was agreed

    What I'm saying is nobody cares what we did, clubs do far nastier shit than this and nobody bats an eye lid. You seem to think we'll try to buy a player from a team next year and they'll be like 'no you're the boogeymen who ruined Genks season!', they won't, they'll say 'do you have the cash?' same as every transfer. They wouldn't know, nor would they care, about the outcome of the Belgian league in 2019
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 05-17-2019 at 12:19 PM.

  2. #1862
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    Whatever that Jaap Stam story was, fine, you can find an example for anything I guess.

    You are wrong, it matters, relationships matter, how you govern yourself inside the culture matters. The fact that money speaks most of all doesn’t change that.

    Not playing the last word game. If you are not a neophyte about business, you sure are posting like one.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  3. #1863
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    Quote Originally Posted by bought with blo View Post
    That is a bunch of unfounded supposition. That free form story telling they were doing to relate the Poz transfer story did not sound like two people covering up for each other. They both knew the facts and were even helping each other remember them. Manning even left the interview to verify information from his email.
    So unless you have third party sourcing that tells you Curtis screwed up, he is the dilligent magic worker that got a fantastic DP over the line in record time just like his boss said. DP deals usually take 6 months or more to pull together. That is why Carlos Vela ended up in LA so far I. Advance of LA actually playing soccer. Manning stated in the interview that the extra couple of million was there to make Genk happy, to give them some kind of win, so that they could both keep their heads up and avoid court.
    Outside of the DP deals though our hands are tied by budget, we can't just go throwing more money at the problem because of the salary budget. Getting deals done takes time. I would rather get it right slowly than wrong quickly. We were fortunate that Poz worked bout both fast and good. That is the exception not the norm
    Look at Portland. Brian Fernandez was a transfer at least three windows and many targets long. And that is for a DP that they were willing to pay 10 million for.
    Are you Manning,
    Are you Manning,
    Are you Manning in Disguise?

  4. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Whatever that Jaap Stam story was, fine, you can find an example for anything I guess.

    You are wrong, it matters, relationships matter, how you govern yourself inside the culture matters. The fact that money speaks most of all doesn’t change that.

    Not playing the last word game. If you are not a neophyte about business, you sure are posting like one.
    Sure they do - just the outcome of the Belgian league in 2019 isn't going to change any relationship, same as a two year public courting of Cesc Fabregas involving players putting a Barca jersey on him and club and players courting him to come and a president guaranteeing his signing if elected while he was under contract at Arsenal with no deal struck hasn't stopped anyone dealing with Barcelona.

    Japp Stam was the norm, not an isolated example, he just said it publicly

    If people still do business with PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man United etc then they sure as shit will do business with us. If you think that a club will say 'yep, we would sell player x to you, but you ruined Genks season, so we'll sell the same player to someone else for less' then I don't know what else to say

  5. #1865
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    I’m not looking to delve in to every detail of this and not sure where I stand on this whole saga ...

    But, claiming people continue to do business with PSG, MANU, etc. so they will with us too is apples and oranges.

    It’s like saying Wal-Mart squeezes their suppliers and continues to do business, why can’t the local convenience store?

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    From sport.ch:
    Stephan Lichtsteiner will probably leave Arsenal, now Canadians express their interest.

    At Arsenal, the captain of the Swiss national team signed a contract for the current season. This contract is unlikely to be extended, so Lichtsteiner has to move on after 23 appearances for the Londoners. According to
    Blick , the Toronto FC from Major League Soccer is interested in him. In the current championship, the Canadians are on the sixth place. In the past three years, Toronto has each secured the Canadian Cup victory.

  7. #1867
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    From sport.ch:
    Stephan Lichtsteiner will probably leave Arsenal, now Canadians express their interest.

    At Arsenal, the captain of the Swiss national team signed a contract for the current season. This contract is unlikely to be extended, so Lichtsteiner has to move on after 23 appearances for the Londoners. According to
    Blick , the Toronto FC from Major League Soccer is interested in him. In the current championship, the Canadians are on the sixth place. In the past three years, Toronto has each secured the Canadian Cup victory.
    If they dont want robben why would they want this guy? Fake news.

  8. #1868
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I’m not looking to delve in to every detail of this and not sure where I stand on this whole saga ...

    But, claiming people continue to do business with PSG, MANU, etc. so they will with us too is apples and oranges.

    It’s like saying Wal-Mart squeezes their suppliers and continues to do business, why can’t the local convenience store?
    more like the convenience stores at a gas station. Its still MLSE, your just dealing with the smallest branch of it

  9. #1869
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    From sport.ch:
    Stephan Lichtsteiner will probably leave Arsenal, now Canadians express their interest.



    At Arsenal, the captain of the Swiss national team signed a contract for the current season. This contract is unlikely to be extended, so Lichtsteiner has to move on after 23 appearances for the Londoners. According to
    Blick , the Toronto FC from Major League Soccer is interested in him. In the current championship, the Canadians are on the sixth place. In the past three years, Toronto has each secured the Canadian Cup victory.
    I'm not against signing older players. As long as the price is right. We could use more experience.

  10. #1870
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    From sport.ch:
    Stephan Lichtsteiner will probably leave Arsenal, now Canadians express their interest.



    At Arsenal, the captain of the Swiss national team signed a contract for the current season. This contract is unlikely to be extended, so Lichtsteiner has to move on after 23 appearances for the Londoners. According to
    Blick , the Toronto FC from Major League Soccer is interested in him. In the current championship, the Canadians are on the sixth place. In the past three years, Toronto has each secured the Canadian Cup victory.
    Ah, Stephan Lichsteiner from Switzerland, plays out of London, England.

  11. #1871
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    more like the convenience stores at a gas station. Its still MLSE, your just dealing with the smallest branch of it
    But bargaining power is defined by influence over the sport of soccer in this case. The fact MLSE is active in Hockey, CFL, and Basketball or is otherwise owned by a few large telco’s really doesn’t mean too much.

    Unless Genk has some great replacement for Andersen I don’t know about ...

  12. #1872
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    But bargaining power is defined by influence over the sport of soccer in this case. The fact MLSE is active in Hockey, CFL, and Basketball or is otherwise owned by a few large telco’s really doesn’t mean too much.

    Unless Genk has some great replacement for Andersen I don’t know about ...
    Even without looking at the legal ramifications the question of transfer dealings can involve so much shadiness that it can be difficult to even do business in some cases. And you’re right; going about transfers improperly does impact how other teams deal with you. There are plenty of teams run by huge egos or complete lunatics.

    Look at Dembele or Coutinho for some big recent deals that will strain further transfers between the clubs involved.

    If you have a bad relationship with the club, you’re going to pay more or just not get transfers at all. De Jong and De Ligt will both end up at Barcelona precisely because they have a good relationship with Ajax.

    That’s without even delving into contract and agent shenanigans and everything else. In many cases it isn’t just cut and dry.

  13. #1873
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Even without looking at the legal ramifications the question of transfer dealings can involve so much shadiness that it can be difficult to even do business in some cases. And you’re right; going about transfers improperly does impact how other teams deal with you. There are plenty of teams run by huge egos or complete lunatics.

    Look at Dembele or Coutinho for some big recent deals that will strain further transfers between the clubs involved.

    If you have a bad relationship with the club, you’re going to pay more or just not get transfers at all. De Jong and De Ligt will both end up at Barcelona precisely because they have a good relationship with Ajax.

    That’s without even delving into contract and agent shenanigans and everything else. In many cases it isn’t just cut and dry.
    I could see that. I honestly don’t know if any of this sticks or not (don’t really have an opinion here). Just at face value, saying the mega clubs get away with it so we should too doesn’t really fly.

    To use another dank analogy from these boards recently: we are Tsubasa Edoh and PSG/ Barca are all over 6’4

  14. #1874
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    Ah yeah I meant more in the grand scheme of things far, far, far worse things happen for transfers every single season. Nobody in Europe cares, or probably even knows, about a transfer between a Belgian and Canadian team never mind would be so outraged as to ostracize us - this was not a big story in Europe. Bottom line is future transfers will come down to whether we can pay more for player x than the competition is willing too, same as before, same as it always is. Whether written statements can supersede contracts in Belgian law or whether we were entitled to trigger the release clause or not is not going to part of the thought process of random European clubs where tapping up, and even doing so publicly & with no release clauses, is standard

  15. #1875
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    I'm not against Lichsteiner coming to TFC, if the price is right. (Meaning, less than max salary cap hit wages)
    Ashley Cole and Bacary Sagna has done well enough in MLS on their last legs. (and they came to the league on cheap) Lichsteiner would fill a gap at RB. Auro = Jackson
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  16. #1876
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    Arsenal bid 40 million and 1 Euro to trigger Suarez's release clause a few years back. They did not negotiate first or ask anything. It was a shit move and looked at poorly but it affected nothing going forward.

    These things do happen all the time. At least we didn't get nailed for tampering or bribing agents like some European teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Arsenal bid 40 million and 1 Euro to trigger Suarez's release clause a few years back. They did not negotiate first or ask anything. It was a shit move and looked at poorly but it affected nothing going forward.

    These things do happen all the time. At least we didn't get nailed for tampering or bribing agents like some European teams.
    It wasn't a release clause.

    And that is nowhere near the same as what we did.

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    In my twitter feed, I read two cryptic tweets, one liked by Mavinga, inferring that he may be leaving in some capacity relating to his national team

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    In my twitter feed, I read two cryptic tweets, one liked by Mavinga, inferring that he may be leaving in some capacity relating to his national team
    It wouldn’t be “his” national team; he’s a French youth international.

    If he did end up getting recruited by the DR Congo NT he’d be gone for the Africa Cup of Nations matches in June... but I doubt it as he’s never been on their radar.

    In other news, he was talking to Lacazette about the Raptors, and Laca replied “Can we talk about it next year?”

    CONFIRMED: Lacazette to TFC next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    CONFIRMED: Lacazette to TFC next year.
    Well that would improve Curtis' rating on his evaluation thread

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    *watches Robben score*

    Man, I’m glad the FO didn’t pursue that one during the transfer window.

  22. #1882
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    It wouldn’t be “his” national team; he’s a French youth international.

    If he did end up getting recruited by the DR Congo NT he’d be gone for the Africa Cup of Nations matches in June... but I doubt it as he’s never been on their radar.

    In other news, he was talking to Lacazette about the Raptors, and Laca replied “Can we talk about it next year?”

    CONFIRMED: Lacazette to TFC next year.
    He's already played for the Congo though.

  23. #1883
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    *watches Robben score*

    Man, I’m glad the FO didn’t pursue that one during the transfer window.
    Cue 8 people screaming about MLS 1.0 and not being a retirement league.

    Because Pirlo counts but Villa doesn’t.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomLawrence View Post
    He's already played for the Congo though.
    I thought he only played there ages ago after his only callup when France basically said he wouldn’t play at the senior level.

    I also thought he’d been dumped by them (DR Congo) as well, but I don’t really follow African football.

  25. #1885
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    Posting this because these are the types of guys that would be on our summer radar... younger USMNT winger that wouldn’t cost millions (or would he?)

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/footba...-united-states
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Posting this because these are the types of guys that would be on our summer radar... younger USMNT winger that wouldn’t cost millions (or would he?)

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/footba...-united-states
    Four goals and five assists in 13 super lïg matches is not bad at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Four goals and five assists in 13 super lïg matches is not bad at all
    Pft, Wondo scored 4 goals today!

    I wish we scored 4 goals today.

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    Didn't Gareth Wheeler tell us like a month ago that at least one notable signing was imminent probably two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonc View Post
    Didn't Gareth Wheeler tell us like a month ago that at least one notable signing was imminent probably two.
    The FO told us that.

  30. #1890
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonc View Post
    Didn't Gareth Wheeler tell us like a month ago that at least one notable signing was imminent probably two.
    At this point I don't think it would matter and probably better off to not have signed anyone. It may have papered over the real issues. Better to root out the problems now and if Vanney gets shown the door it's better for the new guy to make those signings.

 

 

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