TFC 2019 player in-season moves/speculation/rumours [Seba-free zone from page 74 on]

[portu]

I'm not sure what this even means???

Replace Pozuelo with Giovinco and you could say the same thing about our team the last 3 years....and please don't say Vazquez would be able to handle it...he wouldn't....
This is the nature of this league...a couple players will be carrying your offence, and that's that...

Not sure why it was good enough then and now no?

Is this team the finished product? No.
Should management have acted sooner, so that we were a more complete team closer to the season? Sure, but considering the sudden departure of Bez, its understandable.

But easy schedule or not, we still have a very good record. This team last year was unable to win games they are winning this year so far, and that is with an incomplete squad.
If the right pieces are identified and brought in, this team I say has the potential to be right next to our 2017 team....

This side, under Vanney, is built on the performances of its stars. I think that's a valid way of putting a team together. But, I also think that there are several drawbacks to that. For example, the inability to replicate actions on the pitch when your stars are out. I've been harping on having a proficient third striker, or in this case a back-up striker, for a long time. This isn't new.

This team could be as good as 2017. But if Jozy, Pozo or Michael go down for significant time? No way. Maybe Oso could pick up the slack for Pozo, but there aren't even near replacement level guys for Jozy or Michael. Yes, teams often rely on certain individuals to produce. However, most teams wouldn't have their seasons shot to shit if one of those individuals were gone. That illustrates my issue with the offence, which is more about roster composition than anything else.

[OgtheDim]

I get why some people are saying "It's OK, get the right person" & "our attack is good". My qualms are not about our team now. It's about performance on the management side.


They say there is a defined need that needs to be addressed and that was defined publically back in October.
They say they always have lists of "the right person" just in case and for every position.

BUT

Nothing got over the line. Like it or not, if your job is to make this team better, and you have prepared for these occasions and you have a need you defined 7 months ago, your job is to get something over the line by now that fits that need.


I would think that as part of developing the lists they would have also detailed "how do we close this" outlines - with the understanding that weirdness is going to happen.

BUT.... they have spent a good bit of the last week making darn sure the whole "we have never had to deal with such negotiations before" messaging is front and centre. We are being provided excuses.

But, come on - it's tough for everybody trying to get footballers in this age. 2019 is not 2014. Sorry, but if you want to get people in modern soccer who are on your lists, then you are going to have to deal with weirdness. You are going to have to be prepared to deal with that and get the job done.

And, yes, we will be Ok as a team for now, but to me, this is like an academy - if you don't put in the hard work now and accomplish things now, you won't be able to compete long term.

[Oldtimer]

This side, under Vanney, is built on the performances of its stars. I think that's a valid way of putting a team together. But, I also think that there are several drawbacks to that. For example, the inability to replicate actions on the pitch when your stars are out. I've been harping on having a proficient third striker, or in this case a back-up striker, for a long time. This isn't new.

This team could be as good as 2017. But if Jozy, Pozo or Michael go down for significant time? No way. Maybe Oso could pick up the slack for Pozo, but there aren't even near replacement level guys for Jozy or Michael. Yes, teams often rely on certain individuals to produce. However, most teams wouldn't have their seasons shot to shit if one of those individuals were gone. That illustrates my issue with the offence, which is more about roster composition than anything else.

Isn't every MLS squad bent on being a contending side having similar issues? Sporting KC gets injuries trying to play in the CCL and now their regular season is in the dumps.

It's been quite a few years since RSL won the Cup with a lunch bucket squad. Reliance now is on a few key pieces. It's a problem with the whole DP model.

[Defoe]

I'd rather Curtis take the slow and thought out approach rather than jump at anything to plug holes and make us happy because with that we end up with guys like Aketxe or Kanatari or maybe even a new Iro.

I'll take the right deal over the fast deal any day regardless of our record in May.

I agree with this. The goal is long term sustainability and winning championships not short term stop gaps. To win in Champions league every TAM and DP position will have to be basically perfect

[TFC Tifoso]

This side, under Vanney, is built on the performances of its stars. I think that's a valid way of putting a team together. But, I also think that there are several drawbacks to that. For example, the inability to replicate actions on the pitch when your stars are out. I've been harping on having a proficient third striker, or in this case a back-up striker, for a long time. This isn't new.

This team could be as good as 2017. But if Jozy, Pozo or Michael go down for significant time? No way. Maybe Oso could pick up the slack for Pozo, but there aren't even near replacement level guys for Jozy or Michael. Yes, teams often rely on certain individuals to produce. However, most teams wouldn't have their seasons shot to shit if one of those individuals were gone. That illustrates my issue with the offence, which is more about roster composition than anything else.

Fair enough, but consider this....

Remove Messi, Coutinho, and Suarez from Barca. Can the team replicate their actions? No.
Salah and Firmino are out for Liverpool today. Is anybody giving them a chance, as slim as it was? No.
Ronaldo left Real Madrid for Juve. The team has been a shadow of itself this year.

Point being that this is not a TFC problem....its a soccer/sports problem.
Any team in the world will rely on its stars to be successful...that's why they're the best players on their teams or even in the sport.

I understand the ones above are extreme examples, but the point is relevant even to the best teams in the world.
The point is emphasised imo even more in MLS...you go as far as your best players.

Like I said before, I do feel that the squad is incomplete by a player as far as having the right players in out Best XI.
But if the ask is to have quality waiting to come in too, that's a bit much for me.

[ag futbol]

In the grand scheme of things, I’m okay with waiting on a DP and getting that one right. For the others... they have to push them though.

Looking at the Argos though. That one has to be getting attention from the CFL more broadly. It’s not an economically viable entity right now if not for the TV rights and ownerships deep pockets.

Agreed we should have our own president and be separated from whatever the football team needs.

Really? On the back paid attendance that is probably hovering around 10k? Well I feel a lot better about the CPl’s prospects now

[OgtheDim]

Darren O'Dea has retired


Not sure what we are going to do without the annual rumours

[DFloorDanny]

I get why some people are saying "It's OK, get the right person" & "our attack is good". My qualms are not about our team now. It's about performance on the management side.


They say there is a defined need that needs to be addressed and that was defined publically back in October.
They say they always have lists of "the right person" just in case and for every position.

BUT

Nothing got over the line. Like it or not, if your job is to make this team better, and you have prepared for these occasions and you have a need you defined 7 months ago, your job is to get something over the line by now that fits that need.


I would think that as part of developing the lists they would have also detailed "how do we close this" outlines - with the understanding that weirdness is going to happen.

BUT.... they have spent a good bit of the last week making darn sure the whole "we have never had to deal with such negotiations before" messaging is front and centre. We are being provided excuses.

But, come on - it's tough for everybody trying to get footballers in this age. 2019 is not 2014. Sorry, but if you want to get people in modern soccer who are on your lists, then you are going to have to deal with weirdness. You are going to have to be prepared to deal with that and get the job done.

And, yes, we will be Ok as a team for now, but to me, this is like an academy - if you don't put in the hard work now and accomplish things now, you won't be able to compete long term.

Not that anyone asked, but since this is the topic of discussion. I'm echoing these comments. Either the due diligence is too strict, or they just aren't identifying enough targets early, or both. When the team is making promises that it can't keep, it is reasonable to question their strategy. More than 2 months ago, they promised us TAM players, they promised us a winger, they talked about reinforcing the back line. They have signed nobody. That's not going to cut it.

[reggie]

we still have 12 hrs ...we can start the hasler back to tfc rumours

[ag futbol]

I get why some people are saying "It's OK, get the right person" & "our attack is good". My qualms are not about our team now. It's about performance on the management side.


They say there is a defined need that needs to be addressed and that was defined publically back in October.
They say they always have lists of "the right person" just in case and for every position.

BUT

Nothing got over the line. Like it or not, if your job is to make this team better, and you have prepared for these occasions and you have a need you defined 7 months ago, your job is to get something over the line by now that fits that need.


I would think that as part of developing the lists they would have also detailed "how do we close this" outlines - with the understanding that weirdness is going to happen.

BUT.... they have spent a good bit of the last week making darn sure the whole "we have never had to deal with such negotiations before" messaging is front and centre. We are being provided excuses.

But, come on - it's tough for everybody trying to get footballers in this age. 2019 is not 2014. Sorry, but if you want to get people in modern soccer who are on your lists, then you are going to have to deal with weirdness. You are going to have to be prepared to deal with that and get the job done.

And, yes, we will be Ok as a team for now, but to me, this is like an academy - if you don't put in the hard work now and accomplish things now, you won't be able to compete long term.

Agreed, patience is one thing, this is something else. Everything with these guys is a delay.

We’ll eventually sign the players we need then something else will come up. There needs to be more proactive management.

Say what you will about VDW and Aketxe, those were proactive signings. The way fullbacks and box-to-box kids have evolved in this league post our championship season has been fascinating to see. They were partially on the right track there but the moves seemed odd at the time. Unfortunately the players themselves did not work out but it would have been stellar to kick Delgado to the bench for someone who plays at an atuesta type level

[fergiejr]

Darren O'Dea has retired


Not sure what we are going to do without the annual rumours

He's going into coaching. There's your rumour... ;-)

[Ultra & Proud]

They say there is a defined need that needs to be addressed and that was defined publically back in October.
They say they always have lists of "the right person" just in case and for every position.

BUT

Nothing got over the line. Like it or not, if your job is to make this team better, and you have prepared for these occasions and you have a need you defined 7 months ago, your job is to get something over the line by now that fits that need.


I would think that as part of developing the lists they would have also detailed "how do we close this" outlines - with the understanding that weirdness is going to happen.

Since then we did get DeLeon (seen as wide player), Ciman (CB depth), and later Poz to fill some of those gaps. Now with just bringing in anyone in May, you are crippling the chance to possibly get someone better in July when you don't have to factor in the ridiculous amortized transfer fee shit. In effect by waiting 2.5 months you could get a better quality TAM player or even 2 instead of one if their contracts are expired. Jumping in now and getting someone like Gonzalez at probably near the TAM max then we just bottled that TAM spot for July and we couldn't even get a fair judgment on him as he will probably miss a bit of time with acclimatizing to our squad and the Gold Cup. Then if he turns out to be a pylon then we're ballsed when it really matters after the summer window is over.

Also continuity is a factor in our recent success and too much overturning of the squad at once may unsettle it, especially when performing fairly well.

[stegosaurus]

Fair enough, but consider this....

Remove Messi, Coutinho, and Suarez from Barca. Can the team replicate their actions? No.
Salah and Firmino are out for Liverpool today. Is anybody giving them a chance, as slim as it was? No.
Ronaldo left Real Madrid for Juve. The team has been a shadow of itself this year.

Point being that this is not a TFC problem....its a soccer/sports problem.
Any team in the world will rely on its stars to be successful...that's why they're the best players on their teams or even in the sport.

I understand the ones above are extreme examples, but the point is relevant even to the best teams in the world.
The point is emphasised imo even more in MLS...you go as far as your best players.

Like I said before, I do feel that the squad is incomplete by a player as far as having the right players in out Best XI.
But if the ask is to have quality waiting to come in too, that's a bit much for me.

It’s true to an extent, but a bit superficial. Just looking at Barca: when Suarez was in poor form they can just play differently, Coutinho was a massive boondoggle and hardly a “star,” and when you lose Neymar you just buy a Dembele.

They get the players they want, they have extensive youth development, and a roster with players who can step on the pitch and perform even if they aren’t stars.

Compare that to TFC.

[Ultra & Proud]

MLS is a league where your team over the long haul is as good as your weakest players in the XI.

Stars like Zlatan/Valerie/BWP could paper over flaws with goals and assists but when it comes to playoffs, title matches, and down to the wire positioning battles I expect teams to tighten up and goals to become more difficult and then every play counts. When it gets to chess match level with squads of comparable talent usually any weak link will be exposed over time and then that team is punished. This is why I get concerned when I see Zavaleta, Bono, and sometimes Delgado out there. In a game of inches any of them can cost you severely in one simple moment. I am okay with Westburg for now and in a perfect world we get a Jansen/Menedez type player up front and push Osorio in Delgado's spot and that makes our XI better and gives us a decent option off the bench.

[stegosaurus]

I think all the “we need x y or z” is just a symptom of an ineffective FO.

Injuries did derail our season last year, but unfortunately not much has been changed to prevent situations like this. We had a long off season and while Pozo is wonderful, they dealt with it in a really bad way, there’s no real journalism or transparency, and they lied over and over again about getting players during this window.

They mismanaged the contract situations to some extent, and we ended up needing to replace two of our best players on short order, as well as more than one player speaking to internal issues.

We hire a lot of USMNT players for a lot of money in some cases when we could probably just find better players and pay them less (keeping in mind I like Bradley and Altidore). Why is the FO so intent on doing favours for the USSF and players like Zavaleta and Spencer?

I’m not Vanney-out. I like him. That said, he can’t manage ego players, at times makes questionable tactical decisions, and I’m pretty convinced our big win and his COTY recognition has him thinking we can play like the best teams or implement systems that we just can’t play flawlessly (at the moment).

Needing one forward player or one defender is really just recognizing that our FO hasn’t done their job effectively enough and that our tactics and personnel have left us vulnerable at the back.

Wins and goals early in the season are nice, but there’s a lot going on behind the scenes that needs to be addressed more than simply adding a player or two.

[OgtheDim]

Not that anyone asked, but since this is the topic of discussion. I'm echoing these comments. Either the due diligence is too strict, or they just aren't identifying enough targets early, or both. When the team is making promises that it can't keep, it is reasonable to question their strategy. More than 2 months ago, they promised us TAM players, they promised us a winger, they talked about reinforcing the back line. They have signed nobody. That's not going to cut it.

You know, I can sorta see the Gonzalez thing waiting until July because that was a need not really noticed until we saw that Moor has long term injury issues & Ciman isn't quite up to speed yet.


So that I'm willing to be patient with.

But the wide attacking player? Vanney was talking to journos about this last Septmeber so I'm pretty darn sure its been in discussions he would have had with Bez for well before that. They have known about this need for a LONG time. Now, maybe losing VV & Seba threw those plans out the window.

But, why send Telfer (they're only left sided wide attacking player) out on loan if you don't have a probable left sided attacking wide player lined up?

If you do the prep well enough, you can get something done. Seems a lot of journos have bought the "it was difficult" line when realisticaly yes, it was difficult - like it is for everybody - if you do the prep well enough, you can get something done.


Either scouting has to be better or Bez didn't leave enough info for Curtis to be able to get the job done.

[Initial B]

Or the options that they are looking at aren't good enough to warrant pulling a deal like they did for Poz. I think we can agree that TFC right now is a mid table team - that won't change in the next two months. So long as they're still in the playoff race come July, the Brain Trust will hold off to try and get the best bang-for-the-buck players they possibly can when the summer transfer season starts.

[reggie]

You know, I can sorta see the Gonzalez thing waiting until July because that was a need not really noticed until we saw that Moor has long term injury issues & Ciman isn't quite up to speed yet.


So that I'm willing to be patient with.

But the wide attacking player? Vanney was talking to journos about this last Septmeber so I'm pretty darn sure its been in discussions he would have had with Bez for well before that. They have known about this need for a LONG time. Now, maybe losing VV & Seba threw those plans out the window.

But, why send Telfer (they're only left sided wide attacking player) out on loan if you don't have a probable left sided attacking wide player lined up?

If you do the prep well enough, you can get something done. Seems a lot of journos have bought the "it was difficult" line when realisticaly yes, it was difficult - like it is for everybody - if you do the prep well enough, you can get something done.


Either scouting has to be better or Bez didn't leave enough info for Curtis to be able to get the job done.

i totally agree with you,,,epic fail by the FO,vanney must be pissed

[Bobo]

I think this is more than poor scouting; I don't think Vanney and the front office know exactly what they want to do, or at least aren't all committed to doing it. All this talk about wide play, yet only DeLeon can do the job (for the most part) effectively. Of their other options with first-team experience, one was loaned to the CPL and one is buried in USL; all while carrying an abundance of center midfielders.

[Oldtimer]

I think this is more than poor scouting; I don't think Vanney and the front office know exactly what they want to do, or at least aren't all committed to doing it. All this talk about wide play, yet only DeLeon can do the job (for the most part) effectively. Of their other options with first-team experience, one was loaned to the CPL and one is buried in USL; all while carrying an abundance of center midfielders.

I think Vanney knows perfectly well what he wants to do, it's just that Curtis hasn't given him the players to do it. To be fair, Curtis is having to pick up the pieces left by Bez's sudden departure, he should be judged by what he gets done in summer.

[Oldtimer]

Since we've been discussing mercenaries who leave for whoever pays the most money, Mavinga is one of those for whom lifestyle is also an important factor:

Last year when I went back to Europe, I told my agent that I didn’t want (to go anywhere) else because here I’m very happy and my family is happy as well. (I re-signed) not because of the money.“Maybe in Europe I can get more money, but now is about the life. You have to be happy and enjoy your life. You can get more money but if you’re not happy, you’re not going to play your best football. I played in so many countries before I came here. And when I came here I felt like this was the best for me.
“I love this place. That’s why I’m happy to play for this team,” he added. “I enjoy every moment. I know I am comfortable. For me, Toronto is one of the best cities in the world, so I’m very happy and proud to play for this team.”

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...pired-campaign

[jabbronies]

I think all the “we need x y or z” is just a symptom of an ineffective FO. Injuries did derail our season last year, but unfortunately not much has been changed to prevent situations like this. We had a long off season and while Pozo is wonderful, they dealt with it in a really bad way, there’s no real journalism or transparency, and they lied over and over again about getting players during this window.

They mismanaged the contract situations to some extent, and we ended up needing to replace two of our best players on short order, as well as more than one player speaking to internal issues.

I don't understand this sentiment at all.
We lost Gio because FO didn't want to pay him money that could go to a 27 year old who is just as game changing. We lost Vasquez because we didn't want to pay him a wage that could be used for a younger player. Are you saying the FO fucked up by not paying these guys what they wanted? Didn't they in turn go out and get a better player that can do both of those vacant roles? Don't we now have the flexibility to go out and get more holes filled with this whole thing transpiring the way it did? Not sure how you see that as a fuck up.

I’m not Vanney-out. I like him. That said, he can’t manage ego players, at times makes questionable tactical decisions, and I’m pretty convinced our big win and his COTY recognition has him thinking we can play like the best teams or implement systems that we just can’t play flawlessly (at the moment).

- TFC has the best start they have ever had to a season. Even better than the 2017 season. I don't understand the criticism you have of Vanney. I get he makes questionable decisions, but they are made for a reason and they are still getting us results. Fact is, TFC need to upgrade in a couple positions, and the team can't be held back by the players who can't keep up in those positions.

Needing one forward player or one defender is really just recognizing that our FO hasn’t done their job effectively enough and that our tactics and personnel have left us vulnerable at the back.

If 80% of your team can play the style you are striving for, you don't install a crap system that only works for that crap 20%. You replace that 20%. it's that easy.

The problem is, it just doesn't happen that fast - it doesn't happen that fast anywhere in the soccer world. Until it does - which could be immediate with the right signing, do you go with a crap system and then have to adapt everyone once the new guys come in? That sounds like Shit planning to me.

Wins and goals early in the season are nice, but there’s a lot going on behind the scenes that needs to be addressed more than simply adding a player or two

- What needs to be addressed behind the scenes? Why? Because cos Altidore lashed out about a trainer issue?
I don't see that situation as it played out as a major problem. I see that as someone who has passion for the club speaking his mind and I see a President who didn't blow things out of the water and rectified the situation.

[69Chevy396]

It is hard to imagine how a manager and scout, bent on making a signing or two, can travel to Italy and Argentina, and come back holding nothing but their dicks. There are so many players in those two countries who would benefit this team. As I said in an earlier post, it would have been better for TFC to lose to Orlando. FO now believes this team is good enough for a playoff gate or two, and are willing to wait until they resolve the Bradley DP issue....reminds me of Seba....are they quietly hoping Bradley asks for a trade to his dad’s club? At this point, without Bez, I don’t hold much confidence in this FO....

[69Chevy396]

- TFC has the best start they have ever had to a season. Even better than the 2017 season. I don't understand the criticism you have of Vanney. I get he makes questionable decisions, but they are made for a reason and they are still getting us results. Fact is, TFC need to upgrade in a couple positions, and the team can't be held back by the players who can't keep up in those positions.

It is true, TFC has played well to start this season. However, they have had an easy schedule, plus they have yet to beat a contender. If just being a decent MLS club, is all that we care about, than yes, this season, we will be a decent club, and likely miss the playoffs, or fail to win a game , if we do get there.

[Bobo]

I think Vanney knows perfectly well what he wants to do, it's just that Curtis hasn't given him the players to do it. To be fair, Curtis is having to pick up the pieces left by Bez's sudden departure, he should be judged by what he gets done in summer.

Endoh hasn't made an appearance this season and you'd have to assume Vanney would have given the OK to loan Telfer. While there may be other factors at play, and while the in-house options may not be overly stimulating, Vanney hasn't seemed too concerned in the wide players at his disposal.

[OgtheDim]

I think Vanney knows perfectly well what he wants to do, it's just that Curtis hasn't given him the players to do it. To be fair, Curtis is having to pick up the pieces left by Bez's sudden departure, he should be judged by what he gets done in summer.

Which is why I don't think the lack of being able to get somebody is down to Curtis - I put this prep down to Bez and the scouting (which they said they worked to improve in the offseason)

Spitballing here, but sometimes when a person has been in a job for awhile, they just assume their own knowledge will be around to deal with things.


And, I'm going to say this again even though I got shot down at the time - I would not call Bez 2018 year a great success. Apart from Auro, I'm trying to think of somebody or a move that has turned out well from that year.

[Oldtimer]

Endoh hasn't made an appearance this season and you'd have to assume Vanney would have given the OK to loan Telfer. While there may be other factors at play, and while the in-house options may not be overly stimulating, Vanney hasn't seemed too concerned in the wide players at his disposal.

I sure hope that you are not suggesting that Endoh is the solution. Frankly, I'm surprised he was renewed. I guess Vanney figures that he still has potential that could come out with some more practice with TFC2.

[Areathrasher]

Remember when Curtis said to Wheeler there wasn't much of a trade market?

Since then...
A flurry of GAM for TAM trades
David Guzman from Timbers to the Crew
Calvo to the Fire
And now a good young winger in Jonathan Lewis looks to be headed to the Rapids for a boat ton of funny money...
EDIT: Atlanta traded for Meram too

[stegosaurus]

I don't understand this sentiment at all.
We lost Gio because FO didn't want to pay him money that could go to a 27 year old who is just as game changing. We lost Vasquez because we didn't want to pay him a wage that could be used for a younger player. Are you saying the FO fucked up by not paying these guys what they wanted? Didn't they in turn go out and get a better player that can do both of those vacant roles? Don't we now have the flexibility to go out and get more holes filled with this whole thing transpiring the way it did? Not sure how you see that as a fuck up.


- TFC has the best start they have ever had to a season. Even better than the 2017 season. I don't understand the criticism you have of Vanney. I get he makes questionable decisions, but they are made for a reason and they are still getting us results. Fact is, TFC need to upgrade in a couple positions, and the team can't be held back by the players who can't keep up in those positions.


If 80% of your team can play the style you are striving for, you don't install a crap system that only works for that crap 20%. You replace that 20%. it's that easy.

The problem is, it just doesn't happen that fast - it doesn't happen that fast anywhere in the soccer world. Until it does - which could be immediate with the right signing, do you go with a crap system and then have to adapt everyone once the new guys come in? That sounds like Shit planning to me.



- What needs to be addressed behind the scenes? Why? Because cos Altidore lashed out about a trainer issue?
I don't see that situation as it played out as a major problem. I see that as someone who has passion for the club speaking his mind and I see a President who didn't blow things out of the water and rectified the situation.

No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying they mishandled contract issues while players were still playing for us. Just look at Seba and Jozy.

You’re not really addressing what I’m saying. I’m not saying we should adopt a new system or anything like that; I’m just pointing it out. I like winning too, but beating a bunch of bad teams with extreme scorelines isn’t telling the whole story.

Nothing I’m saying is mystifying. The FO has mishandled numerous things and keeps radio silence except to lie to us about acquiring players. Not acquiring the players we need limits Vanney’s ability to play the way he wants, but we also don’t have the players to even run other systems so it doesn’t matter.

Edit: I wasn’t even referring to the Jozy issue, but that was almost certainly avoidable and Manning came off looking out of touch when he did respond to the issue. They fixed it, but that doesn’t mean it should have happened in the first place.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not acquiring the players we need limits Vanney’s ability to play the way he wants

This is a blessing in disguise as what Vanney wants us to do will kill us with our current roster.