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  1. #3421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    I'm just referring to the general feedback from this thread, I could be wrong but I think most people want
    Listen to OG, board stats show only 1% of board users post to any thread daily. You can't assume * any * consensus of the 99% who don't post based on the 1% with the loudest mouths (or keyboards in this case). As OG has pointed out, most people don't want to get involved in what they view as poorly informed discussions.

    The discussion on Jozy is a perfect illustration of this. Because he spent a fair amount of time injured last season and this, a couple of people on this board have made snap judgments that those injuries show that he's getting over the hill. While the most recent injury certainly isn't that (a 20 year old would have been equally taken out), for the other ones we actually don't know one way or another, as we don't have access to his medical records. It could be 100% true it could be completely off base. We just don't know. So most people refrain from commenting on Jozy.

    So you are free to give your own opinion, but don't claim that your opinion is backed up by a majority when 99% haven't voted.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-25-2019 at 06:47 AM.

  2. #3422
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    Regardless of opinion on Jozy there is no 'getting rid' of him, even if we let him go on a free there isn't another team on the planet that would cover the wage he's on. Whatever you think about it the decision on Jozy was made when we reupped the contract

  3. #3423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Listen to OG, board stats show only 1% of board users post to any thread daily. You can't assume * any * consensus of the 99% who don't post based on the 1% with the loudest mouths (or keyboards in this case). As OG has pointed out, most people don't want to get involved in what they view as poorly informed discussions.

    The discussion on Jozy is a perfect illustration of this. Because he spent a fair amount of time injured last season and this, a couple of people on this board have made snap judgments that those injuries show that he's getting over the hill. While the most recent injury certainly isn't that (a 20 year old would have been equally taken out), for the other ones we actually don't know one way or another, as we don't have access to his medical records. It could be 100% true it could be completely off base. We just don't know. So most people refrain from commenting on Jozy.

    So you are free to give your own opinion, but don't claim that your opinion is backed up by a majority when 99% haven't voted.
    I withdraw my comment regarding consensus.

    It is however best long term for the club to move him for someone younger and more durable as it's a huge cost to have a DP miss so many important games. it seems to be a popular opinion (on this board and the other forum I use for TFC) to use the DP spot and large financial commitment on a player or multiple player's who are more durable that having a rising stock not a declining one.

  4. #3424
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Regardless of opinion on Jozy there is no 'getting rid' of him, even if we let him go on a free there isn't another team on the planet that would cover the wage he's on. Whatever you think about it the decision on Jozy was made when we reupped the contract
    China? Qatar? Saudi Arabia?

    Players get signed and moved a year later all the time this is football not hockey

  5. #3425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    China? Qatar? Saudi Arabia?

    Players get signed and moved a year later all the time this is football not hockey
    Although the player has to agree with the move. I'm not sure if Jozy would be down to move to one of those countries. He's not exactly in dire need of more money, given his current wages and his girlfriend is a top 25 tennis player who also makes millions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    You just can't resist appealing to a non-existent consensus ("it seems to be a popular opinion") ...

    Anyway, it's your opinion that Jozy should go, you are free to feel that way. You may be right. I won't comment, as I don't have the medical reports...
    I want to be correct in my language for clarity sake. It's an opinion that many have, but I don't have proof it's a consensus or majority. I should be more clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Although the player has to agree with the move. I'm not sure if Jozy would be down to move to one of those countries. He's not exactly in dire need of more money, given his current wages and his girlfriend is a top 25 tennis player who also makes millions.
    I can't say I'd be able to persuade him to leave, but I'd sure as hell try and I think there would be interest. The fact that Diomande makes 935 k, Herber makes 785 k and Altidore makes 6+ million is just insane
    Last edited by Defoe; 10-25-2019 at 09:34 AM.

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    If we sign a DP winger, which I think we will, I don’t think Benezet is coming back. His buy back clause plus salary would have to make him an auto starter, which I don’t think he is. Plus, with DP winger, you have: DP winger, Endoh, Gallardo, Shaff, and even Deleon if need be who can play wing (that’s if he doesn’t get scooped up in the expansion draft).

    My opinion on him has changed. I liked him when he first got here, but I think he’s been brutal this post season. Missed passes everywhere, losing the ball to easily, not tracking back etc. Plus I think there are better players we can loan in if need be.

  8. #3428
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC1154ever View Post
    If we sign a DP winger, which I think we will, I don’t think Benezet is coming back. His buy back clause plus salary would have to make him an auto starter, which I don’t think he is. Plus, with DP winger, you have: DP winger, Endoh, Gallardo, Shaff, and even Deleon if need be who can play wing (that’s if he doesn’t get scooped up in the expansion draft).

    My opinion on him has changed. I liked him when he first got here, but I think he’s been brutal this post season. Missed passes everywhere, losing the ball to easily, not tracking back etc. Plus I think there are better players we can loan in if need be.
    yah, hes not the complete package but I think he can be a really good winger. Just doesn't match the intensity of the rest of the team sometimes.

  9. #3429
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Although the player has to agree with the move. I'm not sure if Jozy would be down to move to one of those countries. He's not exactly in dire need of more money, given his current wages and his girlfriend is a top 25 tennis player who also makes millions.
    Sometimes people treat transfers on this board like its football manager

  10. #3430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    I want to be correct in my language for clarity sake. It's an opinion that many have, but I don't have proof it's a consensus or majority. I should be more clear.



    I can't say I'd be able to persuade him to leave, but I'd sure as hell try and I think there would be interest. The fact that Diomande makes 935 k, Herber makes 785 k and Altidore makes 6+ million is just insane
    it may be, but there is no guarantee we get a good scorer if we let Jozy go - look at Pity Martinez for example, and the whole history of TFC post Dichio except for DeRo, Danny K and Seba. it isnt a sure thing at all. Jozy is.

  11. #3431
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    He is the kind of player that will show up in the next two games and be the difference maker & potentially win us another MLS Cup. For me he was a more important player than Giovinco in both MLS Cup Finals that we were in. Gio had performance anxiety when it got to the final matches. Altidore... was immense and was the difference. My money would be on him to do it again.

  12. #3432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    I want to be correct in my language for clarity sake. It's an opinion that many have, but I don't have proof it's a consensus or majority. I should be more clear.



    I can't say I'd be able to persuade him to leave, but I'd sure as hell try and I think there would be interest. The fact that Diomande makes 935 k, Herber makes 785 k and Altidore makes 6+ million is just insane
    That's why you go out and get a TAM forward. At best he makes Jozy expendable and at worst he provides real depth when Jozy inevitably can't play.

  13. #3433
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    That's why you go out and get a TAM forward. At best he makes Jozy expendable and at worst he provides real depth when Jozy inevitably can't play.
    This is what we probably have to do. I love Jozy, he is worth a DP spot, but we probably need a second legit striker to be a dominant team a la 2017
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  14. #3434
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is what we probably have to do. I love Jozy, he is worth a DP spot, but we probably need a second legit striker to be a dominant team a la 2017
    This is it. Preferably one who could play wide as well so they can both get out there together. That will all come down to the new CBA though. Hopefully it goes up to a decent level.

  15. #3435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    He is the kind of player that will show up in the next two games and be the difference maker & potentially win us another MLS Cup. For me he was a more important player than Giovinco in both MLS Cup Finals that we were in. Gio had performance anxiety when it got to the final matches. Altidore... was immense and was the difference. My money would be on him to do it again.
    I agree with the sentiment but the comment isn’t quite fair.... Gio passed to Jozy directly for that first goal against Seattle. In fact that first goal in 2017 was a pure team play Morrow - Vasquez - Gio - Jozy. (Actually there was a fifth pass but cant remember)

    How about this... lets just win the MLS Cup and then debate which team was better...
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 10-27-2019 at 08:28 AM.

  16. #3436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I agree with the sentiment but the comment isn’t quite fair.... Gio passed to Jozy directly for that first goal against Seattle. In fact that first goal in 2017 was a pure team play Morrow - Vasquez - Gio - Jozy. (Actually there was a fifth pass but cant remember)
    Went back to look at it and it was Moor to Bradley to Morrow to VV to Seba to Jozy. It was pretty impressive and I'm sure there's another one of those goals in the team that will be executed at some point these playoffs.
    Honestly, I just want to see Seattle-TFC in the final just to bring all this talk of Atlanta and LAFC bet-teams-evar to a screeching halt.

  17. #3437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Honestly, I just want to see Seattle-TFC in the final just to bring all this talk of Atlanta and LAFC bet-teams-evar to a screeching halt.
    x10.

  18. #3438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I agree with the sentiment but the comment isn’t quite fair.... Gio passed to Jozy directly for that first goal against Seattle. In fact that first goal in 2017 was a pure team play Morrow - Vasquez - Gio - Jozy. (Actually there was a fifth pass but cant remember)

    How about this... lets just win the MLS Cup and then debate which team was better...
    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Went back to look at it and it was Moor to Bradley to Morrow to VV to Seba to Jozy. It was pretty impressive and I'm sure there's another one of those goals in the team that will be executed at some point these playoffs.
    Honestly, I just want to see Seattle-TFC in the final just to bring all this talk of Atlanta and LAFC bet-teams-evar to a screeching halt.
    Incomplete sequence in both cases, see starting 2:08 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrT-cbQKb50

    - Delegado intercepts a Seattle pass / one-touch to Moor. (This was also a key part of the play, and Delgado has often played this role!)
    - Moor one-touch to Bradley
    - Bradley one-touch to Morrow
    - Morrow one-touch to Vazquez
    - Vazquez one-touch to Giovinco
    - Giovinco two-touch to Altidore
    - Jozy one touch to set himself up; then shoots & scores.

    Thanks for giving me an excuse to re-watch that 10 more times!

  19. #3439
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    There are so many chances that could have been breath taking goals from that game. The Vazquez diagonal Ball to Seba, the Delgado laser, the Bradley half volley, etc... Thank goodness we won.

  20. #3440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Incomplete sequence in both cases, see starting 2:08 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrT-cbQKb50

    - Delegado intercepts a Seattle pass / one-touch to Moor. (This was also a key part of the play, and Delgado has often played this role!)
    - Moor one-touch to Bradley
    - Bradley one-touch to Morrow
    - Morrow one-touch to Vazquez
    - Vazquez one-touch to Giovinco
    - Giovinco two-touch to Altidore
    - Jozy one touch to set himself up; then shoots & scores.

    Thanks for giving me an excuse to re-watch that 10 more times!
    Thank you for posting. Bloody brilliant.

  21. #3441
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Thank you for posting. Bloody brilliant.
    Brilliant and thanks, was kind of doing it from memory, knew instinctively it was more than 4 and Gio did the final unlocking.

  22. #3442
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    If TFC had Jozef Martinez on 3 million this season instead of Jozy at 6 million and 20ish games they would be hosting this eastern final. Jozy is way too injury prone for the pay. There are many other MLS strikers playing most games producing the same on a fraction of the wages.

    Jordan Hamilton had 4 MLS goals while Altidore had 11. Think about that.
    Last edited by SirBobSaget; 10-27-2019 at 10:58 PM.

  23. #3443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    He is the kind of player that will show up in the next two games and be the difference maker & potentially win us another MLS Cup. For me he was a more important player than Giovinco in both MLS Cup Finals that we were in. Gio had performance anxiety when it got to the final matches. Altidore... was immense and was the difference. My money would be on him to do it again.
    In order to make the difference he has to be healthy, which he isn't.

  24. #3444
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    Pedro from Chelsea is a free agent. That could be an interesting option as a DP.

  25. #3445
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    If TFC had Jozef Martinez on 3 million this season instead of Jozy at 6 million and 20ish games they would be hosting this eastern final. Jozy is way too injury prone for the pay. There are many other MLS strikers playing most games producing the same on a fraction of the wages.

    Jordan Hamilton had 4 MLS goals while Altidore had 11. Think about that.
    yes. but if we had the other Martinez we wouldn't even be in the eastern final. There is no guarantee that if we recruit someone new he will work out. MLS history is littered with signings of strikers who did not work out. And of unexpected ones who did - like BWP.

  26. #3446
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    Every time Jozy is injured, the same discussion happens:

    "Is he worth it?"

    As soon as he comes back, the same discussion happens:

    "Oh MY GAWD I'm glad he is with us as he is unique in the league and going right now"


    *****

    I'm not sure of the solution but I would temper any "he's not good enough" talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Thank you for posting. Bloody brilliant.
    oh man, i forgot about the early saves /misses.

    but that pass from VV at 44 sec, i had never seen it. I cant believe he even tried it

    https://youtu.be/vrT-cbQKb50
    Last edited by C.Ronaldo; 10-28-2019 at 02:35 PM.

  28. #3448
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    I still can't believe we got rid of Stefan Frei so we could keep Joe Bendik

  29. #3449
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    I still can't believe we got rid of Stefan Frei so we could keep Joe Bendik
    Those were our 'special' years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Those were our 'special' years.
    If we never let him go we would be a 2-time MLS Cup Champion. He was the sole reason Seattle won in 2016. We might even be Concacaf Champs had he stayed. Felt it was a dumb move then, now I realize dumb is an understatement. It was a stupid move.
    Last edited by rydermike; 10-28-2019 at 07:25 PM.

 

 

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