My sense is this is more he's too trusting. He gave Ali carte blanche under the mantra if you hire good people, you let them do their job. He's done the same for Bob.Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud
His likely position is that if he has the right people, they won't want him constantly looking over their shoulders.
And in this case, because of BOb's track record at LA and his own background in U.S. soccer, he is clearly not seeing the whole picture.
I get this and it makes sense to a degree. At my work I put people in charge of various tasks and I almost never check on them until there's problems or complaints from customers then I go look. I don't wait until there's chaos before I do it either because it's important to be on top of issues.
On top of that I don't like making the same mistake twice so if there's a possible issue or something happened in the past, I will keep my eye on that always even with different staff. Seems like Bill never learned that lesson from the Curtis era and it will eventually be his downfall.
The issue, as always with these fundamental team direction things, is above Manning.
Can Bogers be anything but dysfunctional at the Board level?
There is a fair bit of smoke around the idea that Masai is unhappy.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ob-nba-gm-says
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
IN retrospect, MLSE has always strived for big fanfare, big spending and and RESOLUTE underachievement when it comes to results. Take a look at the last 20 years of Leafs, Raptors and TFC and I think you'll notice that success has been an anomaly for the corporate bigwigs.
I am beginning to believe that they don't care about the teams as long as the merch and the condos continue to sell.
MLSE is in dire need of an operational president to oversee all its teams. Someone from the sports world who will bring excellence is respect to something other than just finances. It’s crazy to think a board of corporate bigwigs will care about anything other than finances. No wonder underperforming is the norm. Very reminiscent of the hospital boards focus on budgets instead of outcomes.
Darn! My main supposition for some time has been the possibility that Masai was that unofficial, corporate organizational chart, back channel, relationship guy that might act as a circuit breaker between BB/BM- some of their other business silos and the MLSE Board; for Tanenbaum. Then again, ERogers- notoriously difficult, even stingy, may be re-focused, re-invigorated and starting to flex- for measured spends, now that his Family sitch and the Shaw matter are mostly settled- still some hiccups there and that the Rogers Centre’s Reno has extended it’s life. All, IMHO, so that the eventual battle- Baseball vs. Football(s), for the CNE grounds/any new stadium(s) builds may occur within the next ten years. Also, do not even get me started about Bell, what direction they may take with/at MLSE, given the status of their arms length relationship ship with MTL, the private transactions between the Gillette and Molson Families and the now possible murky involvement of the KSA/PIF in Groupe CH.
I have no inside knowledge, just supposition based on my understanding of modern corporate structures and finances. It’s firsthand complicated and even sabotaged my attempts to benefit corporations I’ve worked for. It’s all about blind allegiance to accounting bottom lines now, regardless of the false narratives and long term damage it produces. Sickening really, especially taken into context with important things like health care, let alone sports.
I agree. However, I think the other thing they are missing is credible board members / advisors providing counsel.
Someone with any of the teams, in this case Manning, feeds them a story about why things aren’t on plan, they have no industry experience to understand if it’s a credible story or not.
^^
In the business dealings I occasionally have had involving large corporate- regional, national and international- entities, it has been my experience that it can unfortunately be as much about relationships as performance. Such structures, inherently, may foment fiefdoms if good governance checks and balances are not always followed.
Absolutely, silos are such a common pitfall.
They had one in Tim Lieweke, but he was too much (too competent?) for the board to handle. They don't want constant success because eventually viewers get bored. They want irregular bouts of success to keep fans coming back season after season. It's pure Skinnerian Conditioning.
The unsaid dirty secret of professional sports
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Brilliant yes this is true
It wasn't that clever, you give the MLSE Board way too much credit. They wanted a corporate yes-man and Lieweke wasn't it, he was too much of a leader with strong ideas. Manning fits what they want so much, he got to run the Argos.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
The knives are out! Et tu Brute? A pressure squeeze? A general correlation may be made from some published reports that MLSE Board reviews are being lead internally against franchise budgets/spends by Rogers through ERogers and TStafferi. Externally, Bell seems to be leading the media/public effort via TSN against TFC…
JdeGuzman… ‘The coach has to go’, ‘Embarrasing’.
Sapong and Quioto seem to exchange punches!
https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/video/de-g...nymore~2672778
Check out this tweet at [URL]https://twitter.com/TSNSoccer/status/1657605931524399106[/URL]
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 05-14-2023 at 02:24 AM.
Someone, anyone, please tell me Manning and Bradley were fired last night? Or this morning? Please?
They are destroying this club.
Last edited by Hala Hrvatska; 05-14-2023 at 07:16 AM.
Not much to destroy any more, because the meticulous destruction job was started years ago.
Now the rot has eaten everything, the base of the construction too, but the base can be not rebuilt.
I mean the ownership of TFC being MLSE can't be changed, and that's the alpha and omega of all the problems with this teams.
The ownership is why this team will never become what the true supporters were hoping for.
Really worrying from that Singh piece that they thought the youth players had real value.
It basically means Manning has paid no attention to the actual football, the actual development, and was just trusting Ali Curtis completely. Ali was really the only one hyping Singh, Nelsen etc. He was the one quoted in the Guardian about JMR, he was the one pushing this as our future.
Now, instead of assuming his buffoonishly incompetent friend was incompetent in all areas, he's rolled us into this season on the assumption their sale would pay for good players.
The level of incompetence at this point is bordering on staggering.
Bell and Rogers marriage is fracturing I think.
I remember posting on this board, and being absolutely bewildered, when it was reported we were valuing JMR at $20 million: https://www.tsn.ca/european-clubs-tr...utty-1.1763085
I still can't believe this was seriously floated. $20 million. lol.
i can understand the insigne signing in the context of the 2021 season and need to regain relevance in the market and get fans back onside.
however now it does look like having 14 million a year in one DP (who isnt a 30 goal a year player) as opposed to 2 -5 mill a year DPs and maybe a couple u22 initiative signings via transfer fees looks to be seriously hindering the squad, and that's squarely on bill manning.
we really need a football man in that role. commercial considerations are fine (and necessary, most clubs do it to some extent), but it shouldn't be at the expense of the team.
That’s such a shame though and really a byproduct of the massive Armas face-plant and some other things.
I thought the early Pozuelo version of TFC was a fun one to root for. It wasn’t about names or hype but the football was fantastic. We just cheaped out and delayed getting a winger (among other things). Otherwise, we’d probably have a second star on the jersey to show for it.
So I talked to my team source again. The general sentiment is that Manning recognizes what's going on, they recognize the player mix and tactics aren't working but they're going to keep working on it, and that it would be easier without all the injuries.
I may not agree with the approach but my general sense is that he's sincere in that; his belief is that Bob's record in MLS suggests it makes more sense to keep working towards the right squad and tactics than it does to fire a manager and start over. They're not wedded to just using LAFC bob ball.
He's apparently aware of the specific issues, the lack of cohesion, the Italians not really producing, the supporting cast etc. He's not happy about it.
I'm not sure he has a lot of other options. Certainly, he figures the season is still early enough to turn it around. I think they feel a bit floored by having 10 guys out.
Last edited by jloome; 05-14-2023 at 10:02 PM.
This all sounds reasonable and probably what should be happening. Hiring and firing multiple people left and right might make some of us who are stuck in our living rooms and perhaps bored with our lives feel better, but in the context of something that adheres to reality (actual humans and human relationships, real contracts and promises, a humongous always slow moving ownership, mistakes, wrong turns and getting some stuff right as well), this is what should be happening.
And if we’re going to see out the season we may as well drop some of the hostility and a little bit of the irrationality (I’m not pointing to you but to the general tenor of the board of late … and even much more so to idiots throwing things at players and offering them general stupidity for support in the stadium) and get something far more interesting out of all of this for ourselves.
So holding Manning accountable for this mess he created means we are bored with our lives and stuck in our living rooms? Get over yourself dude with all the little passive agressive jibes....you literally called one poster's opinions "dumb" a few weeks back...so how about you drop the "hostility" and let posters post their opinions? Anyone one else would be fired already in any other club...but Manning continues to destroy us...and there is nothing "irrational" about calling him out.
You can make every excuse in the book for Manning and Bradley, and you are entitled too...same with everyone calling them out. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
With that being said...
Manning I hope is fired today. Enough is enough. HE brought Curtis here...HE brought Armas here...HE brought Bradley here....its all on him. HE must be accountable for the disaster he has created. We are a laughingstock in the MLS now...despite the highest payroll in the league. Time to go. And bring in someone competent and return to winning ways.
I wonder if Manning thinks in any way he is responsible for the mess due to HIS hires? Curtis, Armas, Bradley...and does he think he has been an epic failure in his role in terms of producing a winning team?
I just am shocked how little MLSE holds Manning accountable. He literally couldn't do worse..and has no fear of being let go. So we just lose and ho hum...nothing to see here.
Great video...Kilbane with the Bradley piece...and DeGuzman this one...
FINALLY, some media is calling out the club...I wish others would as well...put a little heat on Manning and Bradley....and also MLSE.
Yeh, well..there's a reason why I mute some people's posts.
There's a point I reach when I know there is unlikely to be a good outcome of a game - or season - where I start looking for sparks for the future. I went into Saturday expecting little & did get some little things. I have not given up on the season yet - when I start posting "2024 TFC will take that" then you'll know I have.
What Manning thinks about how he is doing is kind of irrelevant, no? (You kind of make this point in your second sentence, I see that.)
We went through a lot of this with Teachers and Peddie. The press was always asking Peddie for a self evaluation even though all the MLSE teams were horrible. Not surprisingly, he always had thoughtful answers … on how he was actually doing great!
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
General comment. I also feel there is too much anger, and have backed away from the board a bit. I am not here to spend a lot of negative energy.
They absolutely suck right now. It is injuries and bad roster moves. We all know it. We can’t have a new manager every year, this isn’t Italy. The team is owned by mostly uncaring suits, we all know that too. If they replaced Manning mid season, they would be very unlikely to have a good idea on what to do next, we all know that also.
We probably just have to ride it out, they will play better.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
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