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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I am catching up here but I don’t buy the narrative that has emerged that Armas was 100% Curtis' hire. Like, I don’t buy it whatsoever. Manning knew Armas but even if he didn’t…sorry, he owns it too.

    All of it.

    It's Manning's responsibility to see that this level of decision is done right. NFW does he get to pretend otherwise, with clever body language.

    He hired Curtis. You buy the ticket, you take the ride.

    I get that something was very off in that press conference but I would be very careful jumping to conclusions based on body language.

    Manning's a survivor.
    yeah good points. He’s going to be pushing for a visible separation, as he played with Armas too.

    Other people who have think he’ll be a great coach someday. Calen Carr went into his leadership skills a little on Extratime.

    I’m not sure he’s tactically bright enough, although it’s hard to say. He may have agreed to too much just to get the job, set himself up for failure with a system that he knew was a square peg.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I can’t help but wonder if Manning has the ability to hire someone that can steer a club through change or is his only plan to preach stability? Manning has always done well stepping into situations where stability makes sense, that has no bearing on how well he navigates change.
    Not sure why there's this sudden necessity for change with our FO. It's not like our system got passed by in the modern game. Yes we moved too slow under Vanney, sure we operated more horizontal than vertical, and obviously we weren't in good enough shape to run, run, run but those are minor things to adjust. Never understood the need for a full and total overhaul of something that was working just fine unless it's just to pad some certain egos so any success would be "mine" instead of Vanney's in any way.

    So I hope Manning's survival instinct and previous history steers him more to tweaking what we have rather than doing another stupid and reckless rebuild.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 07-07-2021 at 02:54 PM.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I am catching up here but I don’t buy the narrative that has emerged that Armas was 100% Curtis' hire. Like, I don’t buy it whatsoever. Manning knew Armas but even if he didn’t…sorry, he owns it too.

    All of it.

    It's Manning's responsibility to see that this level of decision is done right. NFW does he get to pretend otherwise, with clever body language.

    He hired Curtis. You buy the ticket, you take the ride.

    I get that something was very off in that press conference but I would be very careful jumping to conclusions based on body language.

    Manning's a survivor.
    C'mon man, obviously it wasn't a blind hire. That's not what's being said.

    What's being said is Curtis was given the ability to weigh heavier / take the lead on the hire and was able to convince Manning that this was the right approach. And like a good leader, Manning trusted his employee and went along for the ride.

    Curtis obviously thinks highly in Armas and I believe he still thinks with time? transfer windows? being at home? all 3? that Armas vision, one that was clearly conceived at NYRB, could have come to fruition.

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    I wonder if the next hire won’t be long term because the board hasn’t allowed Manning and Curtis to make a full time hire.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I wonder if the next hire won’t be long term because the board hasn’t allowed Manning and Curtis to make a full time hire.
    It’s a fair question.

    There seems to be some debate as to whether Curtis and / or Manning have the authority to hire the coach on their own without approaching the board.

    I would suspect previously it required approval but probably didn’t receive a lot of scrutiny. It is a pretty key hire and if the board isn’t going to sign off on an item like that (at least in passing) I almost wonder if they do a much of anything at all.

    This time out, whatever they propose is going to be receive a lot more scrutiny. And their initial proposal might also be tailored by more specific direction by the board (“experienced coach meeting these criteria”).

    Basically, they’re on a short leash

  6. #126
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    Based on it being Manning reaching out to Jozy, I get the sense that Manning had given Curtis/Armas the freedom to make decisions but has since stepped in and taken over to try and fix things given how things have gone so far this season. Manning also apparently reached out to Jozy nearly a week before Armas was fired.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    It’s a fair question.

    There seems to be some debate as to whether Curtis and / or Manning have the authority to hire the coach on their own without approaching the board.

    I would suspect previously it required approval but probably didn’t receive a lot of scrutiny. It is a pretty key hire and if the board isn’t going to sign off on an item like that (at least in passing) I almost wonder if they do a much of anything at all.

    This time out, whatever they propose is going to be receive a lot more scrutiny. And their initial proposal might also be tailored by more specific direction by the board (“experienced coach meeting these criteria”).

    Basically, they’re on a short leash
    I think Manning's leash is a lot longer than Curtis' but I highly doubt Curtis will be making any major decisions on his own from here on. I think Manning knows "his" guy blew this last last hire and that plus waiting so long to make a change has hurt is reputation overall.

    New manager will 100% be a Manning hire. Curtis might get to present some possible lower level player deals to Manning but I think final decision on all moves will be Manning now.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Curtis is just a lame duck GM now only focusing on writing contracts and working the cap.

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    It's pretty interesting that Manning didn’t tell Curtis to contact Jozy, but instead just went and did it himself.

    This belongs in the Curtis evaluation thread. As evidence that he is done.

    I am sure Curtis will feel that he had Manning's support in freezing Jozy, they discussed and agreed, blah blah yadda yadda.

    Manning is a survivor, and he is running a survival master class here.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-12-2021 at 12:34 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    It's pretty interesting that Manning didn’t tell Curtis to contact Jozy, but instead just went and did it himself.

    This belongs in the Curtis evaluation thread.

    As evidence that he is done.
    Almost need a TFC Management evaluation thread... Hard to talk about one without talking about the other.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Almost need a TFC Management evaluation thread... Hard to talk about one without talking about the other.
    I think the separation between the two will become more and more evident as days go by. I don't think they were very close anyway besides Curtis being Manning's hire. His mistake was trusting his buddy not to screw everything up and now he has to step in and fix everything while Ali sports the dunce cap in the corner for a while. Like ensco said, I think Curtis is finished unless he is comfortable with collecting a cheque and doing pretty much nothing going forward. Although if Manning makes any errors along the way they will fall on Ali's head. Wouldn't surprise me if he quit at some point.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 07-12-2021 at 12:37 PM.

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    Based on Davidson’s direct quote from Curtis, were we not supposed to receive clarification on the interim coach by today?

    Talk about a way to hang your credibility publicly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Based on Davidson’s direct quote from Curtis, were we not supposed to receive clarification on the interim coach by today?

    Talk about a way to hang your credibility publicly.
    Not the first time he will miss a deadline he was stupid enough to announce to the media. Or the last.

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    When Curtis was first hired, I thought he was a "Vanney" hire, as they were close or something. Does anybody remember that or did Vanney just go along with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think Manning's leash is a lot longer than Curtis' but I highly doubt Curtis will be making any major decisions on his own from here on. I think Manning knows "his" guy blew this last last hire and that plus waiting so long to make a change has hurt is reputation overall.

    New manager will 100% be a Manning hire. Curtis might get to present some possible lower level player deals to Manning but I think final decision on all moves will be Manning now.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Curtis is just a lame duck GM now only focusing on writing contracts and working the cap.
    Regarding the bold part, this is what we should have in place from the beginning. Let the lawyer GM be the cap wizard, and leave the football manager in charge of player recruitment/tactics etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.O. View Post
    When Curtis was first hired, I thought he was a "Vanney" hire, as they were close or something. Does anybody remember that or did Vanney just go along with it?
    When Curtis was hired, TFC said that Curtis was at the top of the list for both Vanney and Manning. Vanney spent the day with him and gave his stamp of approval on the hiring.
    https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mls...enko-1.4964795

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    When Curtis was hired, TFC said that Curtis was at the top of the list for both Vanney and Manning. Vanney spent the day with him and gave his stamp of approval on the hiring.
    https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mls...enko-1.4964795
    I could see this, because Curtis can say the right things and comes across as cerebral, but appears to be lacking in the implementation and execution phases of player procurement. I think Vanney must have realized this early on and prepped himself for an exit.

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    If you are ascribing meaning to what Bradley said postgame about Armas the day before Armas was canned, or what Vanney said about Curtis when he was hired… you have never worked in a company.

    I am not saying that Bradley or Vanney are lying. I am saying they are doing their job.

    There is simply no value to these statements, there cannot be. You support your boss' hire, no matter who you are or where you work.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    posting the same message in curtis ali thread for this one:


    its on manning for fully listening and supporting Curtis prior to understanding what was happening.

    Also no one brought up TFC social media team, they need to be let go for posting all those cringe worth posts recently.

    Clearly this was directive of upper management with pictures of bono, bradley sound bite or mavinga's tweet.

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    Hate to tell you this but social media is not paid to reflect the pain of the fans - although every one of them I've interacted with in all sports do in person. That's not what social media for companies do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Hate to tell you this but social media is not paid to reflect the pain of the fans - although every one of them I've interacted with in all sports do in person. That's not what social media for companies do.

    okay what i meant was, someone who was giving clear direction to the social media team should be let go....if that is curtis or manning.

    we all saw thru those dumb posts.


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    FWIW, Manning is the centre face today - not unexpected.

    This is a win for him.

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    Gotta give Manning some respect for basically using the loophole to get games going in Toronto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    FWIW, Manning is the centre face today - not unexpected.

    This is a win for him.
    Yes agree.

    If the feds don’t quietly demand his head from Bell and Roger’s for doing this, that is…
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Yes agree.

    If the feds don’t quietly demand his head from Bell and Roger’s for doing this, that is…
    So wait the head of our country can put on a Habs jersey, let people watch a game of hockey in an enclosed arena and 20,000 clearly social distancing outside the Bell Centre (not) but TFC can’t host 7000 fans, most first responders, outside watching fully vaccinated teams.

    Tell you what, giddy up and get your TFC shirt on PM. it’s an election year, don’t ya know.

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    The more I think about this, the more I think this is a genius play by Manning. He has changed the channel with his bosses, who wants to talk about Armas or Curtis now?

    Manning went and did what 90% of Canada's business elite want to do, which is to tell the feds to cut the politics, eff off, and stop with the nonsensical elements of the border restrictions. (It doesn’t hurt that the “science” is on Manning's side, not letting fully vaxxed Americans in is really a bit unfair and even offensive, if Americans are letting fully vaxxed Canadians in - even if the Canadian government rules are “popular” because the Canadian public is pretty anti-American, doesn’t care about fairness, and doesn’t understand the stats.)

    None will be happier tonight than Friisdahl's friends at Air Canada, all of whom will be calling him in admiration and owe him drinks for this.

    If it doesn’t work, and the feds force Manning out, so what? Manning isn’t Brendan Shanahan, what does he care what his rep is in Canada? He didn’t emigrate here, he is here to do a job and will leave when it's over. This way he wouldn’t go out for screwing up the team, he goes out in a blaze of glory, and will get big severance and have no trouble getting another similar gig in the US on the back of this.

    I absolutely effing love this. What an operator. My respect for Manning has gone up 500% today.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-14-2021 at 08:56 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  26. #146
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    It's not clear that Manning did anything special. Only fully vaccinated players and staff will be allowed (for now). Apparently all MLS players have work permits for US and Canada anyway. Therefore a National Interest Exemption is not needed for these two games. In fact I read this from a Quebec journalist (translated): "Behind the scenes, I'm told the federal government wanted to pre-approve THE ENTIRE MLS plan (including for players who aren't fully vaccinated), but MLS surprised Ottawa by making the announcement today. #IMFC #CFMTL" (from @RomainSchue)

    Probably one of the things that needed to be clarified was if Orlando and NYRB would be OK to play w/o unvaxed players (if they even have any of those).

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The more I think about this, the more I think this is a genius play by Manning.

    He has changed the channel with his bosses, who wants to talk about Armas or Curtis now? Manning went and did what 3/4 of Canada's business elite want to do, which is get Trudeau to cut the nonsense on the border restrictions. Not letting fully vaxxed Americans in is really quite galling, even if it's “popular” because the public doesn’t understand the stats.

    None will be happier than Friisdahl's friends at Air Canada, all of whom will be calling him in admiration and owe him drinks for this.

    If it doesn’t work, so what? Manning didn’t emigrate here, he is here to do a job and will leave when it's over. This way he wouldn’t go out for screwing up the team, he goes out in a blaze of glory, and will get big severance and have no trouble getting another gig on the back of this.

    I absolutely effing love this. What an operator. My respect for Manning has gone up 500% today.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 07-14-2021 at 08:56 PM.

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    Its worked.


    Manning took the July 5th NIE exemption for players with work permits for both countries, made sure players had that (4 Cinci players went earlier this week to NYC to get work permits), got the province to provide guidelines & ....its done.





    The only way this is an issue is if an individual doesn't have a work permit for Canada - nothing new in MLS.


    Now, I suspect this is how it worked


    a) MLSE works with feds & provinces to get guidelines in place & work for an exemption under NIE

    b) Somebody under Manning but sure as hell Manning is going to take the credit, has worked out a plan B - work permits with the July 5 exemption - probably worked it all out since the July 5 exemption was announced because these guys have been very sure of themselves about all this going to happen

    c) MLSE tells MLS "Get all players for these 3 games work permits. They should have them anyways but make sure of it"

    d) Feds balk at NIE because would look bad 2 weeks before an election call - Trudeau went hard against opening up early today at a presser - they were NOT going to give an NIE

    e) MLS implements plan B - "Ok, so, well we are going to go down this route for now & will work on the NIE in the future" (for the anti-vaxxers sake but probably ain't going to work all that hard)

    f) MLS announces games go ahead (so not targeting just MLSE or Saputo)

    g) Feds get an out "well, its approved already so...but we are working hard with them on this"

    h) Impact & TFC gets games

    i) Manning looks like a genius
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 07-14-2021 at 09:04 PM.

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    It's not clear that Manning did anything special.
    It's not that Manning/TFC are breaking the law or something, it's the politics. TFC are sticking a finger in the eye of the feds by clearly and publicly end-running them and rushing them.

    That is remarkable, something no other CEO in Canada has been willing to do.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-14-2021 at 09:35 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I predict Manning and Curtis are gone by the end of next season.

    The roster and cap are an insufficient mess and Manning can’t blame Curtis without explaining why he didn’t notice any of this before the contract extension.

    We don’t have the defensive depth to compete. Their one chance to salvage this is that Omar’s contract is almost up. So if they knock his replacement out of the park AND nail a pair of competitors at striker and centre back, the board will likely overlook disgruntled fans and no title runs.

    But they’ve set the stage to need a bit of luck.

    I wonder if Manning has typical suit sense and is arranging a sideways move.

    His kid got a scholarship to Fordham so I imagine he’ll be leaving the youth setup.

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    If only we had a cheap depth LB somewhere in the organization….

    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

 

 

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