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  1. #511
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    Regardless of the "cap hit", TFC still has an internal budget. Jozy on 6M is insane. Think of the top tier strikers you could get for that and play more than 50% of the time. Sheesh, you could get two 3M strikers and have really good depth.

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Regardless of the "cap hit", TFC still has an internal budget. Jozy on 6M is insane. Think of the top tier strikers you could get for that and play more than 50% of the time. Sheesh, you could get two 3M strikers and have really good depth.
    Not in MLS, you get one guy for 6M and one for 216K 🤦🏼

  3. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Because he wasn’t going to re-sign for less, and the FO couldn’t risk losing him after losing two of our best players before the season even began.
    Should have let him go instead and have this year be a development year. That salary is going to cost us big time.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    Not in MLS, you get one guy for 6M and one for 216K 🤦🏼
    Well with all the TAM, GAM, SPAM in this league anything is possible.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Should have let him go instead and have this year be a development year. That salary is going to cost us big time.
    Why would it cost us? It’s the same as any other DP salary whether we pay him the minimum DP salary or $100 million.

    It may make players ask for more money or make it harder to ship him off if need be, but it’s obvious the FO wasn’t looking for his replacement.

  6. #516
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    I have always loved Jozy and always will... so with that disclaimer out of the way, I get how he is worth $6.3M

    He was about to go on a free, so the right way to look at it is $19M for 3 years. Fernandez at Portland is costing them $13M for 3 years, but most of that is in the transfer. I think Jozy is priced about right relative to other high end strikers (same as Vela and dos Santos).

    It's the price of eggs. Those guys, serious strikers, are expensive.

    Diego Valeri is the same age and stage as Gio was, and he's on $2.4M. Gio's camp didn’t care about that, but Manning had to....
    Last edited by ensco; 06-12-2019 at 11:34 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Well with all the TAM, GAM, SPAM in this league anything is possible.
    That’s not how it works though.

  8. #518
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    I really would like to know who approved the signing of Boyd at $214k guaranteed salary? That person needs firing.

    It will be very interesting to see how the summer window goes we've cut salaries by 15% over last year but are still the highest paying team in the league and are woefully underperforming for the money spent.
    The accountant would say let Bradley go and replace with 2 TAM players $1million each - if you can't compete then it is your problem. It's not clear that this is the plan.

    The whole DP salary structure thing is starting cripple this league. TFC's average salary is $762k...only 4 of the 29 make that. Imagine a team with 4-5 Pozuelo calibre players for the same net spend?

  9. #519
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    Today: "Jozy ain't worth.."

    A month ago: "Without Jozy we can't..."


    *********

    Thoughts:

    Zavs &/or Auro traded in July would not surprise me

    Ciman is OK price

    Pozuelo at that price is a steal

    Bradley next year is a big question

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Today: "Jozy ain't worth.."

    A month ago: "Without Jozy we can't..."


    *********

    Thoughts:

    Zavs &/or Auro traded in July would not surprise me

    Ciman is OK price

    Pozuelo at that price is a steal

    Bradley next year is a big question
    I’d like to see Zavaleta gone, but I don’t see it happening while Vanney is here. Besides, who would want him on that salary? Plus, with OG coming in I’m guessing they probably put Moor out to pasture and keep Zavaleta under the guise that we have no one from Jr level ready to step up and have just brought in two CBs this season.

    It’s unfortunate, but I think we’re stuck with him.

    Bradley is one of the main issues, as I think we’ve brought up in the past. Either restructure the midfield so he’s not needed, bring him down to a TAM salary, or bring in a replacement on a TAM salary (or find a diamond in the rough).

  11. #521
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    Two expansion teams coming in next year. Sell em on an experienced cup winning CB for some funny money to get rid of Zavs.

    EDIT: Come to think of it, next season could be an option year for him...
    Last edited by Areathrasher; 06-12-2019 at 12:24 PM.

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Two expansion teams coming in next year. Sell em on an experienced cup winning CB for some funny money to get rid of Zavs.
    Hopefully one is his hometown.

  13. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Hopefully one is his hometown.
    Every expansion team has thrown down big allocation dollars on a domestic CB. Curtis gotta go selling to Nashville. Doubt Miami would.

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Today: "Jozy ain't worth.."

    A month ago: "Without Jozy we can't..."
    Both are true

    6.1m on a player who plays ~50% of minutes and is worth 11.25 regular season goals a season is a potentially huge opportunity cost for TFC

    Without Jozy we're a far worse team precisely *because* we have to play half our minutes without him *and* don't have a DP slot and 6m salary to spend on someone else who could play instead. In a Jozy-less TFC we aren't just starting Boyd or J-Hams like we are in a world where he's on the books but injured/suspended/with the US

    In our current salary set up, without Jozy we're a worse team. That doesn't mean getting into our current salary set up was the right call. This looks like a panic move after fan backlash.

    In the team and on form, sure he's probably worth close to that or at least I wouldn't hate it - but someone here ran the numbers and he plays 50% of our minutes over the course of his TFC contract. That's an absurd drop on someone with that production and could really impact FO willingness to invest in big contracts going forward
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 06-12-2019 at 12:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Both are true

    6.1m on a player who plays ~50% of minutes and is worth 11.25 regular season goals a season is a potentially huge opportunity cost for TFC

    Without Jozy we're a far worse team precisely *because* we have to play half our minutes without him *and* don't have a DP slot and 6m salary to spend on someone else who could play instead. In a Jozy-less TFC we aren't just starting Boyd or J-Hams like we are in a world where he's on the books but injured/suspended/with the US

    In our current salary set up, without Jozy we're a worse team. That doesn't mean getting into our current salary set up was the right call. This looks like a panic move after fan backlash.

    In the team and on form, sure he's probably worth close to that or at least I wouldn't hate it - but someone here ran the numbers and he plays 50% of our minutes over the course of his TFC contract. That's an absurd drop on someone with that production and could really impact FO willingness to invest in big contracts going forward
    I highly doubt the money people care about the players or even know their names half the time, they just look at numbers.

  16. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    I highly doubt the money people care about the players or even know their names half the time, they just look at numbers.
    Right. So here's the number they care about, revenue generated - total spend. Our spend is high and the team isn't performing because we haven't spent it wisely, they wont care that we could replace Jozy or whatever down the line they may simply look and say "Investing huge money into TFC isn't working, cut it back" because we're not spending their money effectively. It wont be that they're mad about Jozys pay to minutes played but they will care about salary spend to performance

    I'd have to check but is our $ spent: points the worst in the league? If not it'd be pretty damn close. That is a metric that ultimately drives revenue through interest in the team and that's what they'll care about

  17. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Right. So here's the number they care about, revenue generated - total spend. Our spend is high and the team isn't performing because we haven't spent it wisely, they wont care that we could replace Jozy or whatever down the line they may simply look and say "Investing huge money into TFC isn't working, cut it back" because we're not spending their money effectively. It wont be that they're mad about Jozys pay to minutes played but they will care about salary spend to performance

    I'd have to check but is our $ spent: points the worst in the league? If not it'd be pretty damn close. That is a metric that ultimately drives revenue through interest in the team and that's what they'll care about
    That’s assuming MLSE cares about revenue for investment into TFC, which they probably don’t (at least to some extent).

    If that were the case, there really wouldn’t be a bunch of teams in empty stadiums playing to a TV audience of no one.

    Chicago has a huge budget as well, with poor results, but I doubt there’s a lot of revenue there considering how poor the brand is, that they’re spending money to get out of a boondoggle stadium contract, that TV money is low, and that no one goes to games, etc.

  18. #528
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    [QUOTE=JoesphNdo;1901313
    I'd have to check but is our $ spent: points the worst in the league? If not it'd be pretty damn close. That is a metric that ultimately drives revenue through interest in the team and that's what they'll care about[/QUOTE]


  19. #529
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    The discussion of total budget for each team is a red herring.

    When it comes to DP's, teams spend to get what they want/need.

    You wanted Michael Bradley back in 2015? You paid $6 million for 4 years.

  20. #530
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    I don't know if any of you watch Bleacher Report's "Game of Zones" NBA/GoT spoof, but they also have "Champions" which is a ECL/Big Brother spoof. I was watching the first episode of the second season and just about spit out my drink when I saw their depiction of MLS at the 2:30 mark.



    Do you guys think that portrayal of MLS is still accurate?

  21. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The discussion of total budget for each team is a red herring.

    When it comes to DP's, teams spend to get what they want/need.

    You wanted Michael Bradley back in 2015? You paid $6 million for 4 years.
    Money spent on players is consistently shown as the best predictor of success in sports. MLS is no different.

    We paid $6 million for Bradley and Vancouver probably spends $1 million on whoever they get. Sure, in two years time Vancouver could be paying $1.2 and TFC could be paying $5 for the same quality players as conditions have changed but the fact remains TFC is spending ~5x as much. And for 5x as much that should be equaling more success if we do our homework right.

  22. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Money spent on players is consistently shown as the best predictor of success in sports. MLS is no different.

    We paid $6 million for Bradley and Vancouver probably spends $1 million on whoever they get. Sure, in two years time Vancouver could be paying $1.2 and TFC could be paying $5 for the same quality players as conditions have changed but the fact remains TFC is spending ~5x as much. And for 5x as much that should be equaling more success if we do our homework right.
    ‘should and ‘if’ being the operative words there

  23. #533
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    I think Jozy gets paid over 6 million if he hits a bunch of performance based bonuses which seem unlikely how injured he is. Pretty much everyone who is overpaid is an American.

    The worst contracts on the team imo are Bono, Zavs, Bradley (decent player but not worth 6 mill), Jozy (injury pone), Moor(Injury prone and old)

  24. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Can't believe Jozy got a pay rise. Wish I could show up to work 50% of the time and get a raise.
    Wise or not, this is his original contract. Not the extension.

  25. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    That’s assuming MLSE cares about revenue for investment into TFC, which they probably don’t (at least to some extent).

    If that were the case, there really wouldn’t be a bunch of teams in empty stadiums playing to a TV audience of no one.

    Chicago has a huge budget as well, with poor results, but I doubt there’s a lot of revenue there considering how poor the brand is, that they’re spending money to get out of a boondoggle stadium contract, that TV money is low, and that no one goes to games, etc.
    You're right in that they may not care about revenue today so much, in reality they care about revenue plus brand value plus future earn potential etc. But make no mistake, bell and Rogers care about the bottom line and only the bottom line and they won't keep throwing money into a fire pit forever if we have less to show for it than other teams who spend less than we do, they're a business not a sugar daddy. Investing the money poorly could have serious repercussions on our chances of getting that kind of money in the future

  26. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Do you guys think that portrayal of MLS is still accurate?
    No its not but BR sells clicks so the deep knowledge to do the series right has to be from the EPL/Euros - there's no clicks in MLS for BR.

  27. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    You're right in that they may not care about revenue today so much, in reality they care about revenue plus brand value plus future earn potential etc. But make no mistake, bell and Rogers care about the bottom line and only the bottom line and they won't keep throwing money into a fire pit forever if we have less to show for it than other teams who spend less than we do, they're a business not a sugar daddy. Investing the money poorly could have serious repercussions on our chances of getting that kind of money in the future
    The franchise itself is the investment, and the value doesn’t really decrease due to poor performance. They can build a super team in the future when revenues are more than a drop in the bucket and it’s a big money-making sport.

  28. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    The franchise itself is the investment, and the value doesn’t really decrease due to poor performance. They can build a super team in the future when revenues are more than a drop in the bucket and it’s a big money-making sport.
    Sure but the revenues are reliant on hype. They need sold out stadiums, media interest and tv ratings - that's what they're buying. Winning is just a way to get to the bottom line. There is no way you can look at our return on spend and compare it to the other teams in the league on *any* metric and conclude that MLSE are getting value for their money. Right now they could turn off the faucet and basically not hurt their return much at all

  29. #539
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    The investment thought process goes:

    You'd rather be in on the potential then outwards looking at it warily in case it takes off

    &

    World Cup 94 did so much for MLS afterwards & it is "obvious" that World Cup 2026 is going to do even BIGGER things for MLS afterwards in Canada.

    &

    World soccer is changing so quickly the chance to be in now on what could be a main force in that game in 20 years is not something to be ignored.



    I'm not sure I buy all that but that's the thinking.


    *********

    MLSE proved they are in this for the long haul with the Pozuelo transfer fee. Now that doesn't mean that the Bell/Rogers aspect of all this could come crashing down in the next 5 years & TFC gets sold off to Quatar Investments or something like that.

    But, right now, MLSE is seriously interested in investing in this team.

  30. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Sure but the revenues are reliant on hype. They need sold out stadiums, media interest and tv ratings - that's what they're buying. Winning is just a way to get to the bottom line. There is no way you can look at our return on spend and compare it to the other teams in the league on *any* metric and conclude that MLSE are getting value for their money. Right now they could turn off the faucet and basically not hurt their return much at all
    The franchise fee alone is worth like 2/3 or more the value of the club at this point. Jozy and Bradley will be gone relatively soon and the pittance in money will be off the books.

    No matter how hyped TFC are due to good performance the metrics of media interest and tv ratings alone would be enough to make MLSE turn off the faucet.

 

 

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