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  1. #241
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    ^I don't think we know enough about the China story to have an opinion on it. It is easy for me to imagine Manning quashing any deal last offseason. We were coming off a championship, going into CCL, that would have been a PR disaster.

    I think we overrate lifestyle here. We see stories like that of Vazquez, and it makes us feel good, but Vazquez did not take much of a hit to come/stay here.

    Seba has a lot of money, sure, but he has a lot of earning power, and his earning power is ending very shortly.

    It's a mercenary profession. The list of guys who took a last deal far away for the money is long. The list of the ones who didn't is short.

    I sincerely hope he does not go to Saudi Arabia, but he should do what is right for him.
    Last edited by ensco; 11-16-2018 at 10:09 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Money talks but I know if I had a young family that would be low on the list of places I would be interested living in for a few years.
    If I was a human, that would be low on the list of places I'd take money from let alone live

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^I don't think we know enough about the China story to have an opinion on it. It is easy for me to imagine Manning quashing any deal last offseason. We were coming off a championship, going into CCL, that would have been a PR disaster.
    If a star player wants to leave, he leaves, end of. That's the same world over. Plus Manning and Bez are both on the record that they don't want any players here who don't want to be here.

    I'm not saying it's impossible that he goes to Saudi (or China, or back to Serie A). I think the most likely thing, though, is agent leverage for a new contract.

    I agree that lifestyle wasn't the main thing, TFC unloaded the Brinks truck to bring him over. It is a factor though.

    I kind of know these things first hand because my dad worked for a couple of years (senior consulting engineering) in Saudi. He hated every second though the cash was great. Our family stayed put in Canada.

    If he did go over with his family he and his partner would have to formally marry as women are not allowed in the presence of any man who is not a legal relative (they are unbelievably strict about this). The children would go to an American ex pat school. It's rare for expat women to be allowed to work. Life consists of shopping and hanging around with other expats in foreigner compounds and is quite dull. No religious or civic liberty. Possession of alcohol results in a public flogging and expulsion. Religious police enforce a strict dress code on women. Honestly I can't see his partner going for it.

    If he went over it would be with his partner and kids living elsewhere. It's pretty hard to do, I know it was hard for our family.

    Life is more than just money.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-16-2018 at 10:41 AM.

  4. #244
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    The fact is Giovinco has been linked to a number of teams since arriving here, offering a variety of things (better soccer in Mexico and Italy, a bench role on Barcelona, lots of money in China) and he's never really come close to leaving. I realize I was probably unclear; I meant unbelievable that Giovinco would seriously consider it, not that the team is interested.

    MLS is unique in being able to offer high wages, great lifestyle, decent soccer, and a sweet spot of fame and attention within league circles and relative anonymity outside it. Nowhere else in the world has this mix. That's why Giovinco is still here despite pretty constant interest from other clubs since he's arrived.

    If I'm TFC I try to get him on a 3 year extension this summer.

  5. #245
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    I agree with Ensco, we do overrate the lifestyle here sometimes. Going to Saudi is one thing, but going to China and especially Beijing or Shanghai is not much of a change for someone earning what Seba would earn. Issues there have been more with the management of clubs, like actually getting paid. However living in Shanghai? I've spent some time there, in the right situation its one of the great cities of the world to live in. If i'm Seba and got offered a 2-3 year deal to go at substantially more $$ it would be very very appealing.

  6. #246
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    Jorge Jesus is a pretty big time manager.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    The fact is Giovinco has been linked to a number of teams since arriving here, offering a variety of things (better soccer in Mexico and Italy, a bench role on Barcelona, lots of money in China) and he's never really come close to leaving. I realize I was probably unclear; I meant unbelievable that Giovinco would seriously consider it, not that the team is interested.

    MLS is unique in being able to offer high wages, great lifestyle, decent soccer, and a sweet spot of fame and attention within league circles and relative anonymity outside it. Nowhere else in the world has this mix. That's why Giovinco is still here despite pretty constant interest from other clubs since he's arrived.

    If I'm TFC I try to get him on a 3 year extension this summer.
    Same here. Giovinco has been misused a lot by playing him alone up front when Altidore was injured. Giovinco needs to have a strong player to play off of and short of that he's not very effective. At least consistently.

  8. #248
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    Not very effective? He was 5th in assists in the league this year. He changed his game to adapt to what the team needed from him. (Last year he wasn't in the top 20 and Vazquez was 2nd)

    Meanwhile he was 12th in goals, dropping from 8th. Still respectable.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    Not very effective? He was 5th in assists in the league this year. He changed his game to adapt to what the team needed from him. (Last year he wasn't in the top 20 and Vazquez was 2nd)

    Meanwhile he was 12th in goals, dropping from 8th. Still respectable.
    I agree that we should keep him, but we have to get more out of his potential than what we saw this season. A lot of that has to do with Altidore out (when they are together they are both lethal) and all the injuries. I should have said that he could be more effective, and not that he wasn't very effective. He's still a star, but at 8 million bucks a year we need more from him for that money.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    but at 8 million bucks a year we need more from him for that money.
    Whether the DP costs $8M or $1.51M it shouldn't make any difference because the cap hit is the same and MLSE can afford a few bucks on players. The bottom line is winning and who will help that happen.

    Does Seba give us a better chance at winning than not having him? Yes.

    Could we get better for less? Maybe.

    Could we land a dud and balls up another season? Possibly.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Whether the DP costs $8M or $1.51M it shouldn't make any difference because the cap hit is the same and MLSE can afford a few bucks on players. The bottom line is winning and who will help that happen.

    Does Seba give us a better chance at winning than not having him? Yes.

    Could we get better for less? Maybe.

    Could we land a dud and balls up another season? Possibly.
    It matters if we can use that 8 million dollars to get a more effective player. We always need to take that into consideration.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    It matters if we can use that 8 million dollars to get a more effective player. We always need to take that into consideration.
    Potentially a more effective player. No guarantees unless you sign someone MLS proven. Every high priced DP brought in has risks. Who would have thought Pirlo would be NASL caliber when he got to NYC? Or the procession of DP underachievers who consistently failed Orlando? With Giovinco you have a proven commodity and you know what you're going to get; top 10 in goals, top 10 in assists, and pretty durable considering his size and how much he gets roughed up.

  13. #253
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    Part of me wonders if MLSE want to blow it up, and might be more interested in this Saudi idea than Seba is.

    This sank beneath the waves at the time, but I do wonder what exact "distractions" and "agendas" Bradley was talking about here

    https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...n-tfcs-descent
    Last edited by ensco; 11-16-2018 at 04:35 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    Probably the least believable club he's been linked to yet.
    at first I agreed with you, however now I have my doubts. this story may be true.

    since 2015 he has been here 4 years at $7M per seaon 28M USD $37M CDN

    howerver half of that money is taxed away so he is left with $19M CDN


    if he goes to Saudi for same money for 3 years that would be $28M CDN
    but here is the kicker: he would pay $0 in taxes so he would have another $28M in the bank after 3 years
    vs $14M CDN after taxes in Canada

    Is it worth it to do this to your family for $14M dollars more??
    that is 3 years of your young children's life

    plus most of these stories are BS designed to keep the buzz going to sell tickets

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This sank beneath the waves at the time, but I do wonder what exact "distractions" and "agendas" Bradley was talking about here

    https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...n-tfcs-descent
    I am sure Seba's contract is one of the agendas. Seba brought up his contract in the middle of the season if I recall and that's going to cause a struggling team more distractions than it needs. That's an issue for sure but we were already fairly sunk by that point. Altidore was quieter about it but it wouldn't shock me if he let his contract status affect himself and the team. He was a bit odd all year when he wasn't injured. All conjecture but I am not sure about VDW's attitude either. Considering his talent level it would be hard to say he was giving his all. Bring in some high priced floaters and that can have a negative effect on the lower paid younger guys busting balls on a daily basis to right the ship.

    For sure lots of issues throughout the squad but I think 2019 will probably be the last kick at this can. That's probably why no contract extensions yet. Have to see how it goes before deciding the 2020 direction and with MLS evolving every year now we have to change with it fast or get left behind like has happened to a lot teams in the past decade.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 11-16-2018 at 05:34 PM.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    at first I agreed with you, however now I have my doubts. this story may be true.

    since 2015 he has been here 4 years at $7M per seaon 28M USD $37M CDN

    howerver half of that money is taxed away so he is left with $19M CDN


    if he goes to Saudi for same money for 3 years that would be $28M CDN
    but here is the kicker: he would pay $0 in taxes so he would have another $28M in the bank after 3 years
    vs $14M CDN after taxes in Canada

    Is it worth it to do this to your family for $14M dollars more??
    that is 3 years of your young children's life

    plus most of these stories are BS designed to keep the buzz going to sell tickets
    But after 2019 he wont be offered 7 million from any MLS club. So he can get his 7 this year (3.5 post tax). Or TFC can collect a transfer fee now and Seba can sign an extended contract with the Saudi team, heck lets say for 4 years. then he clears 28 million more and retires rather than 3.5 + ???.

    It makes sense, why earn less in MLS or Italy, SA is a 6 hour flight from Italy, might as well move the family back and earn the last big paycheck.
    Last edited by SirBobSaget; 11-17-2018 at 12:07 AM.

  17. #257
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    That information looked more like somebody in management talking about their wish list - their's a certain amount of quiet but chest out bravado involved in business in the Middle East.

    "Oh, yeah, we are going for him. And this guy is our next target. "

    Translation

    "We are professionals and serious."

    I suspect the target of this talk is the financial backers of the team.

  18. #258
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    IF there is interest in Seba from China or Saudi Arabia remember that he has another season with TFC. It seems that folks in this thread are approaching his future as if he and his agent are shopping him around and making decisions. That would only hold true if he signs nothing from TFC in the year ahead and finishes his contract.
    Fact is that TFC would be the ones shopping him around right now. It is the potential contract auction that would be of interest to them. Trouble is that if you sell Seba now, you had better have another name waiting in the wings. If you hold onto him and hope TFC 2019 is a rebound year, then Seba is going to be part of the success and will get a new TFC contract. If you hold onto him and TFC 2019 is another stinker, then selling him in the summer (eg Saudi Arabia football season is August to April) means a smaller return.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I am sure Seba's contract is one of the agendas. Seba brought up his contract in the middle of the season if I recall and that's going to cause a struggling team more distractions than it needs. That's an issue for sure but we were already fairly sunk by that point. Altidore was quieter about it but it wouldn't shock me if he let his contract status affect himself and the team. He was a bit odd all year when he wasn't injured. All conjecture but I am not sure about VDW's attitude either. Considering his talent level it would be hard to say he was giving his all. Bring in some high priced floaters and that can have a negative effect on the lower paid younger guys busting balls on a daily basis to right the ship. (more)
    i think you are right. there is more to it, but this rings true, particularly VDW and Jozy.

  20. #260
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    Read a report by a journo that VDW was vocal in the dressing room taking a leadership role when Moor was out - but that info only came out at the end of the season.

    The yelling during the game he and Seba did back in August(?) might have been a good thing.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Whether the DP costs $8M or $1.51M it shouldn't make any difference because the cap hit is the same and MLSE can afford a few bucks on players. The bottom line is winning and who will help that happen.

    Does Seba give us a better chance at winning than not having him? Yes.

    Could we get better for less? Maybe.

    Could we land a dud and balls up another season? Possibly.
    Your crystal ball sucks. We need more concrete answers than this lol

  22. #262
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    So Jorge Jesus confirmed the interest in Seba

    Jonathan Soriano and Sebastian Giovinco, two players with European football experience, are Al Hilal's clear objectives for the January market, confirmed Jorge Jesus in an interview with the newspaper A Bola .
    "At first hand I will say that Al Hilal is negotiating two players for January. They will be two starters, a Spaniard in China, Soriano, and an Italian who was considered the MLS best player, a short man from Toronto [Giovinco]. I do not know if it will be possible, "said the coach.
    It is recalled that Soriano, advanced Spanish, was several times associated with Benfica in the years of command of Jorge Jesus.

    http://www.zerozero.pt/news.php?id=235167

  23. #263
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    "A short man from Toronto"

  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    So Jorge Jesus confirmed the interest in Seba

    Jonathan Soriano and Sebastian Giovinco, two players with European football experience, are Al Hilal's clear objectives for the January market, confirmed Jorge Jesus in an interview with the newspaper A Bola .
    "At first hand I will say that Al Hilal is negotiating two players for January. They will be two starters, a Spaniard in China, Soriano, and an Italian who was considered the MLS best player, a short man from Toronto [Giovinco]. I do not know if it will be possible, "said the coach.
    It is recalled that Soriano, advanced Spanish, was several times associated with Benfica in the years of command of Jorge Jesus.

    http://www.zerozero.pt/news.php?id=235167
    as a sporting fan, how many times with Jorge Jesus screw me over

  25. #265
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    Sergio Leon linked to NYCFC and TFC.

    https://as.com/futbol/2018/10/11/pri...o_rsoc=comp_tw

  26. #266
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    Per Molinaro, Octavio Zambrano wants Osorio on loan next season for his Colombian team as they gear up for a Copa Libertadores run: https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/colo...rio-loan-2019/

    I don't see the point of loaning him immediately after signing him to a big contract. If he wants to go we should just sell him and get a nice transfer fee.

  27. #267
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    Zambrano is a cheeky fucker asking for a player on loan after said player signed a bumper extension.



  28. #268
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    Hmmm. Very unusual and a clear violation of the code by which clubs operate. MLS should demand a retraction and an apology from the Colombian federation.

    Somebody senses weakness somewhere.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  29. #269
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    Zambrano probably wants to play him as a defender.

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    (Sam Stejskal) mlssoccer.com

    Source tells me that the club is finalizing a deal to permanently acquire Auro from São Paulo. Ager Aketxe is unlikely to return in 2019......


 

 

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