Well if Giovinco goes then they might as well trash 2019 and do the rebuild now. I'd hate to see us try to get a few short term 'patches' to take a final risky run at trophies and fail. Might as well sell off whoever isn't in the 2020 picture, play youth and whatever TAM targets they must be working on now, and take a run at some DPs in the summer window.
If Al Halil offers a transfer fee anywhere close to what they paid for Gomis, it would make it very difficult for TFC to say no to.
I'm assuming they have already submitted an offer which was for little to nothing, hence TFC declined. They've got 3 days to work out a deal before the window closes. If Giovinco leaves before the season starts that would be very unfortunate as I was hoping to see him one last time this year!
You’re free to feel the way you want about the situation. I would have preferred we at least have made a serious attempt to extend him. I might feel better if you told me where the goals will come from this year.Originally Posted by reggie
If the front office screws this up I'll have to find a way to express my extreme disappointment - the only one I can think of is boycotting beer sales this year. By "screws it up" I mean two things: not giving our heroes the heroes send off they deserve (letting them go gently into the good night) - and secondly, ensuring that the team stays strong with appropriate and excellent replacement players. If they don't do this, and they already have my ticket money, they don't deserve my beer money too.
Rebuild should not be part of our vocabulary. I'm just so sick of that term.
Sell Giovinco and bring in the next top world footballer in the summer.
We are the Yankees/Dodgers of the North Amercan football and fans need to remind MLSE of that. We don't accept mediocrity.
Without Vazquez and Seba, TFC will be lucky to win 10 games
im not the gm or coach,im a season ticket holder since day 1,i will support the team no matter who is on the field.
Gomez is (slightly) younger, more effective at this point, and has a longer contract. I don't think TFC receives a 15M fee. I think 10M is enough for TFC to accept for a 32 y/o on the last year of his deal; the club can turn that into two transfer fees and still have some left over. The replacement may not be Seba-level, but it's the more sustainable way - both in MLS and throughout world football.
The timing isn't all that unexpected, but man, it still sucks.
I know. Thats why I said close.
Manning/Curtis should use that as a reference point and get as close to 10M as possible.
We haven't really shown that to be honest. Atlanta is, if anything.
Would love to be proved wrong but numbers and profit speak louder.
If management feels we need a rebuild (an actual rebuild like the leafs) and cleaning house and getting transfer money back for Altidore, Giovinco, Vazquez and maybe even Bradley, then i'm all for it. That's 20-30 million in savings we can use in the future.
Holding on to these players, winning nothing and then losing them for nothing is even worse if management values that 20-30 million and i'm sure they do.
Doesn't necessarily mean tear it down and start from ground zero but at some point we need to get younger and more importantly, faster. That can happen pretty fast if we do good scouting and spend proper money but still the adjustment period will take a season or so to be at full speed.
Defence and midfield are too good for that (baring injuries). And I highly doubt we go in without at least an AM replacement.
We are, with our current squad minus Seba, a playoff team. We need 3 players to make us contenders for everything. A stud striker, a good passing AM & an everyday RB. A left sided attacker would be nice too.
CCL though - I think we have issues in Panama to be honest.
I believe there are only two ot three Serie A players earning more than Seba’s US $7 mil. Most are in their 30s. Few European star players in their prime would come to MLS, like Seba did. South America is hit or miss. That monster in Atlanta barely made it off the bench in Torino. Lots of ageing avg EPL players, disinterested ones like VDW, broken down ones like poor Vazquez.....where exactly does TFC expect to land a player who can draw the fans, score remarkable goals, make wonderful assists, improve the mediocre players around him, play the game with intensity and emotion? I know....he is called Giovinco.
I realize he is on a different planet, but Ronaldo signed that uber contract at 33. If he trains properly, Seba could remain an elite level MLS star until he is 37 or 38.....
If we lose Seba, then what are the odds of getting one of Atlanta's 4 DPs on loan? I'll take Almiron, please!
Seriously, Whatever moves are made now should be looked at in context of the summer transfer window. Let's take stock of what we have right now: The central defence consists of Ciman and Mavinga (with Moor and Zavs as backup), with Bradley backstopping them. There aren't too many attacks in this league that will easily break into the box and score. We have Auro on one wing and Morrow on the other. They're serviceable as fullbacks or wingbacks, but may be lacking in pace. We have Osorio and Delgado in the middle, both National team players and one was the CCL Golden Boot winner and are familiar with each other. It's just the attack that we'll have trouble with if Seba and/or Jozy leave and a lack of depth and untested talent that we've picked up through the draft and the offseason. I think we can win 10 games, and Bradley doesn't strike me as being one to put up with a tanking mentality. Let's all take a deep breath and see what happens this year - we might be surprised. As Doug Smith is fond of saying, "that's why they play the games."
I don’t think there is anything wrong with Seba leaving, really.
Only issue is that we are backed into a corner. How credible is any threat to do nothing and just go forward? You have to let Seba go. We are not getting anything close to a $10M transfer either, btw, this'll get done on Thursday for a much lower number.
He isn’t worth (to us) anywhere close to the kind of money we are talking about. He's worth what Diego Valeri or Piatti makes, $2.5-3M a year, in this league.
I love the guy but let him go make his USD$35M. No need to clutch the pearls.
Last edited by ensco; 01-28-2019 at 01:33 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Before he signed here he was no slam dunk success guarantee on the pitch and nobody had a clue who he was minus people who supported Juve or really followed Serie A. I knew of him but was skeptical that he could cut it here until I actually saw him out there and doing his thing.
This is the point, regular fans don't know any of these guys until they show themselves here. Martinez in Atlanta arrived with little fanfare because he was basically a Euro flop. Look at him now. Guys like that are out there but fans won't know about how they are and will perform in MLS until they do it. All you hope is that the management team and scouting network have a better idea so we get less Gilbertos and more Giovincos moving forward.
how do transfers fees work in MLS, If i sell someone for say 5 Million, can i Buy someone for 5M?
If we rent a DP, I'd rather have Alessandrini than Almiron. Odds of Almiron being unhappy here are 100%, he wouldn’t want to be here.
Alessandrini has has a much better probability of settling in.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Agreed. We as a market have the potential for this. Any lesser vision is unacceptable.
Disagree. I don't really follow Serie A, I had no idea who Martinez was, but I sure knew who Giovinco was.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I think we could have extended him if we had had the talks we all knew we should have had 8 months ago but didn’t. We disrespected him, so he’s looked elsewhere. That’s the issue to me. Now we have no choice. Obviously you have to let him go - we can’t match the reported salary, and shouldn’t.
Unless there were some serious irons in the fire there won’t be a replacement (if that was even possible, his output was still near the top of the league). We’re at the end of the window in most countries, so realistically we’re looking at summer.
I wouldn't mind him. Everything will depend on what our new plan is.
If we do the same thing we've been doing for the past 4 years then that's the kind of guy we'd go for. I have a feeling though we're going to go the young guy from SA route though.
Agreed. Manning just needs to channel his inner Leiweke and start barking about huge signings coming.
This is an entertainment business after all. They need to be out there getting people excited.
I have a similar take, but I don’t think we ever could have signed him. Either way:
We should have offered to extend him at $3M for 4 years or whatever after the season. If he throws a fit, fine, you shake Seba's hand and thank him, then let everyone in world football know, and you move him via a controlled auction in January (plus you run a process to replace him). We all say our goodbyes in November/December....
Instead Seba is pissed (you get this outcome either way), but also fans are pissed, there are no proper goodbyes, and the team will not be remotely ready for CCL or the opener.
Last edited by ensco; 01-28-2019 at 01:36 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
But you follow football. Probably 60-70% of the 20k+ people who regularly attend matches/have season's tix had no clue. Nobody I go to games with had any clue who he was. They all asked me and my other friend who follow various leagues. Most follow EPL if anything so unless it's a guy from there, they had no clue. But that first season with him, they all had his name on the back of their shirts by summer.
It’s also worth saying the jury is still out on the Atlanta young DP route. They did well with Martinez and Almiron for sure. Barco has been a bust so far, and got himself into off field troubles. We’ll see about this new Martinez.
This wouldn't work either.
A few pages back someone said that if you offered him or Jozy less than $5M they'd be pissed and leave. That's probably the case too. Then if that gets out it looks bad on Manning/Curtis for lowballing our stars after years of exemplary service. This was a very tricky situation to navigate in a PR sense. They were probably hoping a huge offer would roll in because then it looks the best for everyone.
Bingo
someone a few pages ago suggested that Bez leaving had something to do with the club not committing to Gio and Jozy. I didn't think so then but looks like it was certainly a factor now, if there is any truth to this. Poor Curtis, his career now consists of being hatchet man twice in a row at major rich clubs. It also looks like Seba's interview with KJ functioned like an advertisement. Literally the shop window.
Sure it would have, we'd be in the exact same place except we'd be a in far better situation in terms of the replacement strategy.
Plus we would have treated everybody with respect.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
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