I hope that is not true. If it is, I agree with this. If that is the ask, I would move them now.Originally Posted by TFC1154ever
I hope that is not true. If it is, I agree with this. If that is the ask, I would move them now.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
If I'm being honest that Jozy/Seba interview was awkward AF. I certainly feel more pessimistic about things after watching it.
I may be in the minority but I would be happy to see our 3 DPs get new deals. In a media-centric city such as Toronto I'm beyond worried that this unfolds as a major distraction all year long.
In a post-Bez world I would welcome some certainty right about now.
No. Sorry but that is ridiculous. We love him, but Victor Vazquez is no proven winner in world football, just because we won MLS Cup.
For $4M or whatever you can get a lot more than Victor Vazquez, who hasn't ever played in a big league (sorry Victor). You can get someone who has been a regular at big teams at some point, and/or been at very good teams more recently. Someone who has been on TV regularly for years, and hasn't disappeared in Belgium or Canada.
Nani from Valencia. Sergio Canales from Real Sociedad. Coentrao from Real Madrid. Those guys just moved on frees, and those types of guys can be had for this kind of money, and they are just at a different level, market and otherwise, than VV.
Last edited by ensco; 01-15-2019 at 05:53 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
The Qatari league first off is trash so that's a sell. It's not a destination a lot of players want to go to especially with families. Qatar doesn't have free reign over choices. There's no line up to go there. You get what you get and overpay to get it. Besides Xavi is there and has pull. He came up with VV and his recommendations probably carry weight there.
TRUE, but what he did for us. Try and put a $$ on that. Moving on, but that guy made us a winner.
Just like the best (supposed) qualification for police chief is being the right persons drinking buddy, the best qualification in this case may well be familiarity with one of the club’s stars (and future manager).
I’m not reverting to classic Toronto sports fan sky-is-falling mode yet.
I agree that startup teams get more breaks now, and that the Cdn roster restrictions, MO, general salary budget etc. made things harder for TFC in the beginning. However after digging through the numbers a bit more, I'm really surprised:
Exclude the 3 DPs;
Add up the total spent on players, only above the max non-DP salary of $505k.
In 2018, Atlanta spent a TOTAL of $600k to to $840k (Base / Guaranteed), above the per-player max of $505k. (5 players in that category)
In 2018, TFC spent a TOTAL of $1.8 million to to $2.2 million (Base / Guaranteed), above the per-player max of $505k. (4 players in that category)
Disclaimers:
- Aketxe was still on the books then; but Osorio's new deal was not.
- Both teams likely had deals that played with GAM/TAM in exchange for other things, so that affects what they each had available.
- Teams can shift GAM/TAM between years.
- I realize the salary budget ("salary cap"), as well as the players' union numbers, are all wishy washy, don't measure the same thing, and include all kinds of exceptions and special cases. However they have some use for ball-park comparisons between teams.
- There may be some partial-year salaries included; no time to research that.
Sure Atlanta got special startup funds. But TFC probably also got a bunch of MLS monopoly money for VC, CCL, etc.
Part of this is also likely post-cup hangover, which Atlanta will face starting now. E.g. when your team does well and wins the cup (or the treble), then there might be some performance bonuses due the next year, plus anyone whose deal is up will want much more. (Any money that Atlanta gets for players leaving under contract, will cushion the blow however.)
In any case, we can at least be sure that TFC spent a metric ass-ton of TAM, GAM, DP money, and more in 2018, and didn't always get the most out of it, for example when compared with Atlanta. I love all our guys and all they brought us, but long term there are a variety of ways to be successful.
The Qatari league has a pitiful average attendance and a very small captive audience to draw from. 'Bums in seats" isn't a consideration when they dole out the big contracts.
I don't agree. First of all, its very easy for management to pretend it is trying to win and choose money - see Leafs, Toronto, 1967 - 1996. Secondly, its hard to build a winner. And thirdly, and most importantly, these guys won for us! They won! It is a bloody big deal. They are ours and every effort should be made to ensure they have a heros departure - at the end of their careers.
Need an AM - preferably somebody to build the team with well into the next decade.
If Altidore goes, need somebody to take the defenders eyes off of Seba - can't do that with Janson or Hamilton or Bakero. Seba is not made to be a lone striker a la Villa or BWP.
This market DEMANDS 3 DP's that move the needle. Would a guy with the same pedigree as a Pity Martinez do so in 2020? Maybe. I'd like to think this market is no longer in need of an ex-Euro league player. Going young is OK. Going young and cheap? Not going to cut it.
Thats smacks of a deliberate campaign by MLSE to tarnish both of them. That is really poor but sadly not the first time it has happened to great athletes in this town .
what I sense after reading all the posts today is that TFC need to make another splash and bring in another big name, quality addition (maybe more) to bolster a line-up that at the moment is in need of help. Bringing back Hamilton, Endoh and hoping Chapman and Zavs recover from a disaster in 2018 will not do the trick. I lived through the years when kids were on the field and coaches were here one day and gone the next.. Not sure I can stomach that again. TFC, please spend and spend wisely but don't ever say we are in a rebuilding phase.
I am with you. Not at $8 Million, obviously, but am with you. And if this isn't dealt with I can see things imploding. Seen that before too.
This is nuts.
They are building about nine 40K + stadiums in Qatar.
In the meantime, fine, it’s about TV revenue for Asian Champions League.
Or probably it’s just about bragging/prestige at the billionaires falconry lodge.
What effing ever. There is no secondary or tertiary league in the world where $5M/year players are no names but are pieces of “winning” puzzles. (Except possibly TFC with Michael Bradley! )
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Lots of reasons beyond $ ROI the Qatar league may invest in VV because they aren't getting a positive ROI on any player at that price point.
First one that comes to mind is Xavi wants to start his coaching career as well as possible and so part of his 'payment' is they try and assemble a winning roster, one that could maybe challenge for the Asian champions league. Xavi will clearly want to coach in Europe so he'll want to get results early and I wouldn't doubt the fact that he'd have been very aware of what Vasquez was doing. So if he does end up on Xavis team then I'd well believe he took a huge pay jump
Neither am I. This was simply selling a 32 year old with back and knee issues in a heavy travel league. He wasn't healthy last year and we needed to move him for his overall health. The fact we are getting a fee and Vazquez is getting an estimated large salary raise; it's a win-win.
A healthy Vazquez is awesome. But if we are able to use that fee and savings on a 1-1.5 million (relatively cheap) South american CAM; awesome. A Luciano Acosta or Kaku type would be amazing. Not expecting a Pity Martinez, Valeri or Almiron.
And then shipping the stadiums off to Africa after the World Cup. The Qatari Stars league has an average attendance of under 1000. They have about 250k natural born Qatari citizens.
The massive cash they are giving out to ex Barca players and ex coaches and ex coaches brothers sports agency may have something to do with trying to get their national team up to snuff and coaching up all the african kids they are naturalizing ahead of the 2022 world cup.
This
one tweet mentioned VV doing coaching as well.
Yeah so awkward. I’m very worried.
Plus, he has a pedigree. Before he was one of our top players in a treble year he was player of the year in the Belgian league. He's not a no name player by any stretch. Dude scored for Barca in Champions' league. putting butts in seats isn't always name recognition; sometimes teams figure winning is a big component of that.
Edit: And I'd bet it's $4M over two or three years, not $4M a year, or the transfer fee and is salary are a combined $4M.
Last edited by jloome; 01-15-2019 at 08:14 PM.
I would be highly surprised if Curtis didn't offload Jozy and possibly Seba too, if he can get the money. He has a rep for being ruthless and we need to get younger. If not this year, then next. IF the money is there this year, he'll take it this year.
My concern is that Bez left. I don't buy that he wants to be the King of Columbus because he's from Ohio. Bollocks. At his age, he wanted to be pres of MLSE eventually, I would think.
If they told him they were changing direction and reining in spending, then a club where he could build from scratch, regardless of budget, might give him a better chance to succeed than one trying to shed spending.
well that would be incredibly disappointing - a player like Seba who WANTS to remain in Toronto and who has delivered - to offload if he can get the money - sad
When healthy Seba and Altidore are the best one two combo in the league. I really wish TFC reaches a win-win situation.
They are both legends, and perhaps slightly underachieved, however their success and accomplishments will never be forgotten.
Kinda like when the Jays had Bautista and Encarnacion looking to resign. Yes, they saved money. And then were terrible.
Yes. And yes.
I think this has been brewing for far longer than they let on. Acquiring Janson makes sense if they knew of possible serious interest for VV. As does Oso's contract. With a healthy Jozy, Seba, Bradley, Ciman, Mavinga, Morrow, VdW, Delgado and Oso we can have a very good starting 11. Missing pace and width which is to come. It looks to me like they signed Oso to replace VV and want Janson to provide competition for that role. Its a better lineup than we had in 2016
I don’t get the “underachieved” bit, and it's starting to make me crazy. Why won’t we treat our great team with the respect it deserves?
Three finals in 18 months. Never lost. So many good teams that just don’t get it done.
BWP and Villa and Kamara and Martins and Henry and Montero and Piatti and Diaz and on and on, those guys underachieved.
These guys achieved.
We were in tough in every single playoff series and CCL tie, and we never lost.
Last edited by ensco; 01-15-2019 at 08:50 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
You are right we shouldn't be so picky with how TFC was before they arrived, and the group that came together to win it all.
They deserve the respect and to be forever immortalized.
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