I thought the only legal issues may revolve around whether his release clause only pertains to Belgian window or other windows..? I can't think of any other legal issues that could arise. However, can Genk report us to FIFA for tapping up their player? I know it happens all the time, but Genk might be very compelled to complain, and it certainly seems like we might have been in discussions with him and his agent, before speaking to the club.
Would not be surprised if this tweet is basically how Manning et al feel right now - Wheeler does tend to parrot the line within the camp.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/WheelerTSN/status/1095062341836832769
https://www.nieuws365.be/news/1391/c...opt-op-pozuelo
Genk's rival is pleased. Poz seems to be a real star in that league..
By the way, if you open in chrome it's easy to get it translated..
https://www.voetbalprimeur.be/nieuws...l-kosten-.html
Hazard of Genk... nice
The issue with the board is reputational. It can severely impact your effectiveness if you are sloppy with your board.
If Manning went to the board and said: we can get this player for $XMM total commitment, that is one thing.
If he went and said: we can possibly get this player for $XMM, maybe, we’ll try, or maybe it’s a few million more, because there could be a legal dispute, and even then I am not sure we can get him, and doing this and not getting the player could expose us to legal risk ... well that is another thing entirely. He’d be 100% fine there.
You don’t go to your Board twice. That isn’t a work-in-progress update step.
We don’t know what happened yet, so this is only speculation. But I think nobody ran down the legal side of this properly in advance, based on how it has played out.
Last edited by ensco; 02-11-2019 at 05:41 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Everything said buyout clause. The legality will be Genk saying that doesn't go into effect until June while Poz and his agent say otherwise. There's no going to the board for anything. We met the buyout. We're done. From everything I read it's Genk vs. Poz/Agent and the latter were persuing legal action against the club.Originally Posted by ensco
Not everything is always our FO being hillbillies and falling all over themselves to manage anything of consequence.
I think you are speaking with certainty about something you cannot possibly be certain about.
I dont think you understand this very well, actually. If you do, this post sure doesn’t show it.
I also havent argued that that the FO are “hillbillies”, I am pretty complimentary in other situations.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Doesn't a player signs with MLS with a predefined alignment to a specific team? MLS owns all players contracts and rights. It's often the league + team negotiating with all player acquisition I recall. So that adds a different dimension for player transfer. No team can go solo by themselves. How and when league + team collaborates is beyond me.
Yup. The 8M offer to Genk will have come from New York not 40 Bay Street.
When Roma sold Bradley it was in the press release that he was sold to MLS not TFC.
Its an interesting point. Adds a complication but must mean MLS feels that its a legit deal - hard to believe it could have could have got this far unless they had made that offer already.
And IIRC, if they do go the legal route it wont be a normal court it'll be FIFA's dispute resolution chamber and or CAS so it'll be MLS in the dock as TFC isn't a real club just a branch office of MLS LLC.
And it likely wont get that far as MLS is shit scared of both of those bodies.
Last edited by Areathrasher; 02-11-2019 at 08:40 PM.
However, we could probably make this all go away with a couple more million Euros and that's probably what Genk is hoping for.
^This is a very good point - if there has been a screw up, MLS office would own some of that
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Isn’t he right about this? If we met the value of the buyout clause and we have a deal with the player, the only real legal issue is whether this clause preventing a move until the next transfer window applies. And that really is between the player and the team. Unless the team is saying we’ll waive that clause for x amount of money I guess.
This is what's going down. Happens all the time.
Not outside the window.
Except our window is open - point is this sort of shenanigans do exist. And realistically, all TFC are doing is taking advantage of an agent offering his player. Now, is this all on the up and up as far as the player & the agent is concerned? Nope - and we all know this sort of behaviour may/will happen again if the agent/player wants a move.
That's what happens when you look to players of this capacity. You deal with scoundrels & people receiving advice that might turn against you some day. Its obvious now that Seba got advice from D'Amico that turned against TFC. Nature of working with players of that class.
********
If this deal goes south, looking forward to who the second choice would be.
No. The question is, what should a reasonable employer expect to know about an employee's availability or circumstances?
It is not OK to interfere with someone else's existing employment contract if you should reasonably know that doing so would injure another party to that contract.
If Pozuelo (or his agent) gave a copy of his contract to TFC as part of the lead up, and TFC relied on his interpretation that he is free to move, and a court decides TFC should have known they couldn’t sign the player, TFC has risk.
A lot of “ifs” there, but if Genk can convince a court that TFC is unreasonably or wontonly interfering with their shot at a 25M euro payday, then we have a problem.
We'll know the answer to this soon. If TFC pay more than a nominal amount over 8M euros, or if they walk away, then we will know they almost certainly bungled it. (It’s not our money but it would sour the overlords, guaranteed - they could have just had him with no complications for 8M on January 31)
It may turn out the TFC have handled this well. I am just reacting to the news flow.
I didnt like like the sound of the language in the Genk press release saying this is about principles and sport and not money. That got my attention ( I know they could just be blowing smoke) because minnows in Europe get pushed around a lot.
Last edited by ensco; 02-11-2019 at 07:20 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I hope this goes through although I do not like the way it is happening.
Ensco has a point though. Two weeks ago, we meet the clause and reach agreement with the player, he is ours. But two weeks ago it was still "no major changes this year".
Interesting times.
I think at this stage you almost have to scrap the move don't you?
I'm note sure how bad of a reaction the FO will get for not replacing Seba but you have to bite the bullet now. Forfeit the CCL and grind through the beginning portion of the regular season without an established MLS striker.
We could be looking at rough month or two, a lot draws and just grinding a way to victory.
The summer window is a better opportunity to regroup.
We also need to recognize the difference between negotiating a transfer (which is what happens 99% of the time, and is what these Chinese deals in February are, which makes them irrelevant as precedent here) and triggering a release clause or a buyout clause.
The latter is extremely rare (Neymar to PSG and Kepa to Chelsea being maybe the only obvious recent examples, and both were in Spain which has unique rules on this) and it's not clear to me what to acquiring teams legal obligations are to the existing team, precisely because this situation is so rare.
Last edited by ensco; 02-11-2019 at 09:38 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Why are there different transfer windows for different regions? That's the root problem. I've never seen an explanation for this.
Here's the latest in the saga:
https://www.transfermarkt.ch/genks-p...ew/news/329740
"In the Belgian Jupiler Pro League , the KRC Genk leads the table with eleven points advantage after 25 match days. Nevertheless, the mood within the club is currently heavily burdened. The reason is the Spanish captain and playmaker Alejandro Pozuelo(photo), who wants to leave Genk with all his might and threatened by his advisor even with a unilateral breach of contract.
The story is complicated and already dates back to mid-January. At that time, Al-Ahlifrom Saudi Arabia showed interest in the 27-year-old and offered him a yearly salary of 3 million euros net. Genk's hands were tied, since in the 2021 valid contract Pozuelos, which was also traded in the Bundesliga in the past, an exit clause was anchored over 8 million euros. Therefore, the relief was great when the Spaniard decided against the high salary and wanted to continue helping to get the fourth championship title.
A month later everything looks very different: Now attracts the Toronto FC from the MLS , who had previously pulled out with Sebastian Giovinco (32) his "designated player" and thus has funds for Pozuelo's salary available. The since 2015 playing at Genk midfielder wants to change now - Uncertainty prevails, however, whether the clause still exists, as the Belgians claimed on Monday.
"In January, KRC Genk has reached a legal agreement with Alejandro Pozuelo to remain until 14 June 2019. His management now indicates that he wants to leave the club beforehand. (...) For the KRC Genk, the sporting aspect in this case is more important than the financial one, "it says in an official statement. In addition, the winter transfer market in Belgium is over and one feels legally secured, should it come to a legal dispute. That's exactly what threatens Pozuelo's adviser David Garcia.
"The statement is full of lies. The clause has not been canceled, it can go for 8 million euros. We did not sign a cancellation. Alejandro feels cheated by Genk, "quotes Het Laatste Nieuws. In "Het Nieuwsblad" he said: "The time for talks is over. If the club does not want to work on a transfer, we need the legal way. "
In this case, it would be possible to appeal to the Belgian special rule known as the "Law of 1978". This allows a player to unilaterally terminate a contract. The outstanding salary payments - in the case of Pozuelos about 2 million euros - the player must then pay as compensation to the ex-club. The problem: The MLS does not allow their clubs to sign players who have previously dissolved their contract with another club.
The fronts seem so hardened, barely fulfilling Pozuelos desire for a transfer to Canada. As the tablecloth with Genk but finally seems cut, he could ultimately land in China. There are also several clubs show interest and lure with salaries, which can not offer the Belgian leaders."
Here's another article which says basically the same thing:
http://voetbalbelgie.be/nl/article.php?id=145389
Last edited by James17930; 02-12-2019 at 05:00 AM.
I looked around but couldn't find anything saying this on all the sites that list convoluted MLS rules. Anyone got anything that actually says rules on player signings minus the basics?
Doesn't dissolved mean the same as mutually terminated?
Some context in this story. There are apparently gentleman's agreements, sort of, that govern this. Who knows what that means? Genk has scar tissue on this type of situation going way back.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...record-signing
The player has a tattoo saying “Exitus acta probat.” I love that.
Last edited by ensco; 02-12-2019 at 08:27 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
that'a too funny....
Pozuelo speaks...
"After the public statements of Racing Genk yesterday, 11 February, I feel obliged to make this statement with regard to my contractual situation. To maintain my professional reputation, honor and public image. That's why I want fans of Racing Genk to know how everything works. It is absolutely untrue that in January I reached an agreement with Genk stating that I would stay with the club until June 14, 2019. I encourage Genk to make the contract or agreement signed by me and the club public. I am sure they will not do that because I have never signed such a contract or agreement. It is true that I have stated my intention to stay with Genk. But it has to be said that I was pressured by the club to do that.
The only and final document signed between me and Genk is the contract dated 1 August 2017 in which Genk agreed to accept a transfer from a 'third club' with the condition that they would receive a bid of 8 million euros net compensation for that transfer. "
"Genk has recently received several offers that just did not meet that condition and which I therefore refused. But in the past few days a bid has been received that meets that condition. Moreover - if I'm honest - the bid also meets my personal expectations. That is why I made it clear to Genk that I want to be transferred to that 'third club' (Toronto, ed.) And I have asked the club to accept the offer as agreed by all parties in my current contract. "
I am convinced that Genk's supporters - which I have a lot of respect for - agree that my performance was always 'outstanding'. I have always shown commitment and professionalism, made efforts. I do not consider the attitude of the club and the position they occupy to be fair. Just because it was clearly agreed that Genk was obliged to accept an offer, should it come. I believe that Genk is breaking a contract because they refuse this transfer and because they mention a so-called contract that I never signed. This situation affects my physical and mental integrity. "
"I want Genk to live up to my contract so as not to cause any further damage to my reputation and image. And I want to make it clear that - if Genk continues to violate my contract - I have no other option than to take legal action to defend my rights. I find it particularly unfortunate that I am forced to do so by Genk despite all the contributions I have made for the club in the past three seasons. However, I will remain professional and continue to offer my services with the same effort and effort as before. Until the last day that I play for Genk. As I always did - it is also what the supporters of Genk deserve. "
https://www.hln.be/sport/voetbal/bel...dium%3Dtwitter
The Saga continues - and really is poor timing for everyone involved, especially if Genk don't clinch 1st spot in the standings soon. One has to think that if they beat Brugge on Sunday, they'll let Pozuelo go because that will clinch them the Champion's League spot from the Jupiler Pro League, slapping down the only team that could potentially overtake them with 5 games remaining.
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