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  1. #3391
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    NEWS: Toronto FC sign forward Terrence Boyd

    📰: https://t.co/j7xp26PlLl

    #TFCLive https://t.co/3tJ40AFZQ8

    ONE DOWN FEW TO GO

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    To be fair, quite a few decent players are going to Saudi right now, including a number of others on Seba's team. There is a serious 9 figure effort underway to change that league there. It's also more about Asians Champions League in that region.

    http://www.arabnews.com/node/1361261/sport

    https://www.foxsportsasia.com/footba...league-player/

    http://www.arabnews.com/node/1350531/sport
    Now that gulf states have realized they can launder their image as well as their money through football, it’s not surprising. The Qatari teams have been picking up players as well, and Qatar just breezed through the Asian Cup.

    The owner of Al-Hilal is just playing a game of FIFA in real life. If it wasn’t for the fact that there were rules limiting number of foreign players, etc. and they weren’t located in a shitty country, there’d be a ton of highly paid mercenaries playing there.

    MLS has many limitations as well: stingy owners, absentee owners, cities no one wants to move to, lower profile league, etc.

    Then again, a player like Gervinho came back from China to play for Parma at 31 years old and just scored a brace against Juve. Oscar is the type of player who has no loyalties, is still only 27, would bang them in here as well as provide creativity.

    I assume he’s too expensive, but I don’t think he wants to be in China.

  3. #3393
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Now that gulf states have realized they can launder their image as well as their money through football, it’s not surprising. The Qatari teams have been picking up players as well, and Qatar just breezed through the Asian Cup.

    The owner of Al-Hilal is just playing a game of FIFA in real life. If it wasn’t for the fact that there were rules limiting number of foreign players, etc. and they weren’t located in a shitty country, there’d be a ton of highly paid mercenaries playing there.

    MLS has many limitations as well: stingy owners, absentee owners, cities no one wants to move to, lower profile league, etc.

    Then again, a player like Gervinho came back from China to play for Parma at 31 years old and just scored a brace against Juve. Oscar is the type of player who has no loyalties, is still only 27, would bang them in here as well as provide creativity.

    I assume he’s too expensive, but I don’t think he wants to be in China.
    "Mercenaries"? All professional soccer players play for money, don't they?
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

  4. #3394
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    Jesus West on trial from Panama. He did play in the friendly the other day, looks more of TFC 2 signing . https://twitter.com/somosbucofutbol/...03809397608449

  5. #3395
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Barrett19 View Post
    NEWS: Toronto FC sign forward Terrence Boyd

    : https://t.co/j7xp26PlLl

    #TFCLive https://t.co/3tJ40AFZQ8

    ONE DOWN FEW TO GO
    We know one will be a third GK. Not sure if it will be from the pool of fringe MLS type that have been on trial.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  6. #3396
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    Giovinco going to wear #20 in Saudi. #10 was taken by the captain. I thought he might've take #9 or 11 since both were vacant

  7. #3397
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    Anyone know when our captain is joining training camp from Nationals? Would love to hear his take on all of that has happened over the last couple of weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Kind of narrows it down.

    Manning says if you know soccer you'll know the player. KJ says very good league in his prime attacking player. KJ also says shining in his league. We've also heard he'll be on the younger side.

    So let's say 24-27 years old winger/attacking mid, playing in France, Italy, England, Portugal, Germany (maybe Turkey, Russia, Belgium, Netherlands squeeze in). The player is also playing regularly and playing well. On top of that he has a little bit of name recognition.
    The names I envision in this description compared to the reality of it is a truly painful thought.

    Example of the French league:
    WANT: Nabil Fekir or Julian Draxler
    Reality: Mario Balotelli (Tongue in cheek based on other posts here)



    I do have faith we'll get a really good player and I hope it surprises us as well.

  9. #3399
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Yep, Oscar.
    ooooooh

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    I think people are really ignoring the weight of evidence in assessing what TFC will do here.

    Manning hasn't done anything here other than acquire complimentary pieces. When he built a good team in Salt Lake, he did it without DPs, it was built around mid career Argentines (eg Espindola, Morales) that had slipped through the cracks. That is why I was excited about Janson, even though it didn't work. Manning has relationships there.

    Curtis was brought in to RBNY to dismantle a team built around DPs.

    That is who these guys are.

    The fact that Manning said something potentially exciting, but still ambiguous, in the panic the day Gio left, jeez, the guy was trapped and had to say something. (One thing Manning isn't great at is managing high priced talent, that is obvious now, nor is he particularly good at the PR side of all this. But those are not the most important skills in this job.)

    That one statement made in haste does not outweigh the fact of who Manning/Curtis are or what their resumes tell us. These guys have no background or experience in figuring out who the DPs in secondary leagues in Europe could be, we have no institutional edge there (unline NYCFC) and they aren't going to be allowed to spend what it would take to land an Oscar! or a Pato!, or really anyone we have heard of.

    They are going to do what they were hired to do, based on who they are, and what they told their bosses they were good at doing.

    I think it can work, and I am not despairing at this. I am quite interested to see what happens.

    There is no Leiweke to just cowboy this through. Suits will be suits.

    Based on the expectations in these pages of posts, I suspect there will be bloodletting when Manning/Curtis make their moves.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-05-2019 at 11:46 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFloorDanny View Post
    The names I envision in this description compared to the reality of it is a truly painful thought.

    Example of the French league:
    WANT: Nabil Fekir or Julian Draxler
    Reality: Mario Balotelli (Tongue in cheek based on other posts here.
    Draxler won’t move as PSG only managed to sign one midfielder this window.

  12. #3402
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    I’d be thrilled with Oscar. But, agreed, seeems like a stretch given managements perceived intentions. That’s a Giovinco level signing (sigh).

  13. #3403
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think people are really ignoring the weight of evidence in assessing what TFC will do here.

    Manning hasn't done anything here other than acquire complimentary pieces. When he built a good team in Salt Lake, he did it without DPs, it was built around mid career Argentines (eg Espindola, Morales) that had slipped through the cracks. That is why I was excited about Janson, even though it didn't work. Manning has relationships there.

    Curtis was brought in the RBNY to dismantle a team built around DPs.

    That is who these guys are.

    The fact that Manning said something potentially exciting, but still ambiguous, in the panic the day Gio left, does not outweigh the fact of who he is or what his resume tells us. These guys have no background or experience in figuring out who the DPs in secondary leagues in Europe could be, and they aren't going to be allowed to spend what it would take to land an Oscar! let alone someone we have heard of.

    They are going to do what they were hired to do, based on who they are, and what they told their bosses they were good at doing. (One thing Manning isn't great at is managing high priced talent, that is obvious now, not is he particularly good at the PR side of all this. But those are not the most important skills in this job.)

    I think it can work, and I am not despairing at this. I am quite interested to see what happens.

    But based on the expectations in these pages of posts, I suspect there will be bloodletting when Manning/Curtis make their moves.
    It seems like a reasonable expectation, although I'm sure that MLSE will spend more than RSL did.

    We're moving from Leiweke and the "Bloody Big Deal" era of showmanship and making a splash by big names to a more sustainable model (not necessarily ultra cheap though). Not just sustainable in terms of cash, but more balanced across the roster (as much as MLS rules allow). I'm sure the MLSE board saw that once the BIG NAMES were injured, the team missed the playoffs. A more balanced team doesn't have the same risks, although it takes much more care to assemble such team and still be a winner. It will be interesting times as TFC transitions.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  14. #3404
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think people are really ignoring the weight of evidence in assessing what TFC will do here.

    Manning hasn't done anything here other than acquire complimentary pieces. When he built a good team in Salt Lake, he did it without DPs, it was built around mid career Argentines (eg Espindola, Morales) that had slipped through the cracks. That is why I was excited about Janson, even though it didn't work. Manning has relationships there.

    Curtis was brought in the RBNY to dismantle a team built around DPs.

    That is who these guys are.

    The fact that Manning said something potentially exciting, but still ambiguous, in the panic the day Gio left, jeez, the guy was trapped and had to say something. (One thing Manning isn't great at is managing high priced talent, that is obvious now, nor is he particularly good at the PR side of all this. But those are not the most important skills in this job.)

    That one statement made in haste does not outweigh the fact of who Manning/Curtis are or what their resumes tell us. These guys have no background or experience in figuring out who the DPs in secondary leagues in Europe could be, we have no institutional edge there (unline NYCFC) and they aren't going to be allowed to spend what it would take to land an Oscar! or a Pato!, or really anyone we have heard of.

    They are going to do what they were hired to do, based on who they are, and what they told their bosses they were good at doing.

    I think it can work, and I am not despairing at this. I am quite interested to see what happens.

    (Caveat: don't discount the possibility of a fissure at the MLSE Board on this. Manning could present someone that they just won't go for. This type of call will be very tough for the suits.)

    But based on the expectations in these pages of posts, I suspect there will be bloodletting when Manning/Curtis make their moves.
    Yeah, good post.

    A lot of us are talking about the Atlanta model as the way to go, but then we're putting forward Giovinco model names (me included). It's not happening. KJ's comment about being under orders to cut salary is the underlying direction here.

  15. #3405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    "Mercenaries"? All professional soccer players play for money, don't they?
    That just describes anyone with a job. Like any job, for some people will follow money and others will accept less for other reasons.

    It’s not used critically, but is common parlance for players like Hulk as opposed to Totti, for instance.

  16. #3406
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    Don't discount the possibility of a fissure at the MLSE Board on this. Manning could present someone that they just won't go for. This type of call will be very tough for the suits. Remember, most teams payrolls in this league is $15M - if Manning presents a $15M total commitment deal for a tasty young Argentine, apples for apples thats the same ask as the Raptors looking to commit $140M - their payroll this year- to a relatively unknown player.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Draxler won’t move as PSG only managed to sign one midfielder this window.
    I know, it was more of a spitball because Draxler fits the age range and description

    Fekir was a hail mary too

    I have nothing backing these ideas, I was just being a kid in dreamland

  18. #3408
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Don't discount the possibility of a fissure at the MLSE Board on this. Manning could present someone that they just won't go for. This type of call will be very tough for the suits. Remember, most teams payrolls in this league is $15M - if Manning presents a $15M total commitment deal for a tasty young Argentine, apples for apples thats the same ask as the Raptors looking to commit $140M - their payroll this year- to a relatively unknown player.
    I would imagine the suits will be asking "will he sell tickets." While I'm sure they have looked at Atlanta's payroll and success (winning the MLS Cup and a $25 million plus transfer fee) and said we need to do that here, I'm not sure they're totally socialized to the idea this model won't drive bums in seats in the Toronto market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I would imagine the suits will be asking "will he sell tickets." While I'm sure they have looked at Atlanta's payroll and success (winning the MLS Cup and a $25 million plus transfer fee) and said we need to do that here, I'm not sure they're totally socialized to the idea this model won't drive bums in seats in the Toronto market.
    I don't think it does sell seats.

    Here's a hypothetical example, a Chilean that a few people would recognize, Castillo, he played with VV at Brugge, he just moved from Benfica to America and the total commitment was around $15M I am guessing. A very good player who has scored a ton of goals in Mexico.

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/nicola...spieler/145602

    He would sell very few tickets, there'd maybe be a bump for a few games.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-05-2019 at 12:09 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don't think it does sell seats.

    Here's a hypothetical example, a Chilean that a few people would recognize, Castillo, he played with VV at Brugge, he just moved from Benfica to America and the total commitment was around $15M I am guessing. A very good player.

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/nicola...spieler/145602

    He would sell very few tickets, there'd maybe be a bump for a few games.
    Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think they like on paper what Atlanta did (who wouldn't?), but I don't think they realize that approach is not going to sell seats here, because that's not the level of player we'd be getting. I think that's where you might start to see some differences of opinion emerge on the board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The fact that Manning said something potentially exciting, but still ambiguous, in the panic the day Gio left, jeez, the guy was trapped and had to say something.

    That one statement made in haste does not outweigh the fact of who Manning/Curtis are or what their resumes tell us.
    I've seen Manning mention this DP 3 times on video and Curtis once. Besides comparing what guys did with different ownership groups in different markets with different instructions from above make those comparisons moot.

  22. #3412
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    I don't think Pity Martinez sells seats in Atlanta as much as the idea that he will just keep the good times rolling.

    If Atlanta ever finishes out of the playoffs, that crowd will disperse.


    ******

    On another note, at the time Seba came, he wasn't a sure thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I've seen Manning mention this DP 3 times on video and Curtis once. Besides comparing what guys did with different ownership groups in different markets with different instructions from above make those comparisons moot.
    But isn't that where the 'reduce our player salaries" thing comes in? That's the current direction from above, if our reporters have it right (whether they do is another question). And our current management, surprise, has a history of doing exactly that - putting together teams on lower budgets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I've seen Manning mention this DP 3 times on video and Curtis once. Besides comparing what guys did with different ownership groups in different markets with different instructions from above make those comparisons moot.
    We disagree about how job interviews for senior leadership positions work.

    I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I wonder how much selling seats is factored in the signing of the DPs? Over the past week, I have wondered how much of the general public knew of Giovinco before he signed here. For myself, I was very aware of him as I grew up in an Italian household that supported Juve.

    Obviously a good portion of the Italian community would have known of him but did that extend outside of that community? With that being said, the Italian community is large in Toronto and his arrival would have excited quite a few people.

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    Jonathan Menendez just reposted a club photo of himself from Independiente on Instagram. Doesn't appear a deal is near.

    Same thing with Sofiane Hanni from Spartak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I don't think Pity Martinez sells seats in Atlanta as much as the idea that he will just keep the good times rolling.

    If Atlanta ever finishes out of the playoffs, that crowd will disperse.


    ******

    On another note, at the time Seba came, he wasn't a sure thing.
    True, BUT people hear Juventus and......

    The dillema is exactly what ensco and canary were discussing above. Management is not going to be able to make everyone happy with these signings. They are figuring out who to sign that will please as many as possible (fanbase, their bosses, marketing people, etc...) While trying to stay competitive and win.

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    Giovinco was a blessing and Lieweke got shit done. He was a bench player that didn't have miles on his legs. Lieweke can spot talent. When he was removed, Bez failed in spotting that same talent. Our 3 DP's were the result of Lieweke and he was a maestro. His tenacity to find winners is what I miss the most. I don't think the current FO will be as good tbh, not even close.

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    If management wants to increase attendance as well as improving the product on the pitch, I think they need to use a hybrid business model - one recognizable DP that will attract casual fans, and two young DPs with upside at a reasonable salary.

    I agree that the Atlanta model will not sell extra tickets in this market.

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    An attacking mid that is good, but on the fringes of their national team (a good national team) might be the best place to start looking. Find someone that was in the same position Giovinco was in at that time, just a thought.

 

 

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