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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There is no chance that we do this. Zero. That's the Porto/Dortmund model. We don't have the resources or infrastructure (and I am not sure Atlanta do either, for every Almiron there will be 3 Barcos... Atlanta's recruiting without Martino there, is it sustainable?)

    I look at what NYCFC did (just bought a 23 year old AM from Romania for 8M euros, who is on 1M a year) and I think, how could we do that deal without using a club like Man City's resources? How would we find that player, negotiate with that player, convince that player to come?
    We don't have the resources???? thats hilarious. MLSE is one of the richest sporting conglomerates in the world.

    As for your point about there being 3 Barco's for every Almiron, ATL has literally had 3 homerun signings(Almiron, Martinez v.1, Villabla) compared to one POTENTIAL flop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    You spend $5M, you make the top 10 all time
    https://the18.com/soccer-entertainme...-transfer-fees

    $5M is peanuts. It is exactly one third of what Southampton wants for Charlie Austin.
    except Southampton doesn't want 32 yr old giovinco

    1 team wanted him n(and china the yr b4), He is worth a lot to MLS, but clearly not to the rest of the soccer world

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    I just realized something for everyone who has been bitching about the FO.... why did Seba come here in the first place? It wasn’t for the competition it was about the money... why did he leave because of money so at the end of the day it should have been expected that this would have been the outcome. The rumours of Barcelona, China etc were all to done to drive up or justify being paid 7 million us a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper View Post
    We don't have the resources???? thats hilarious. MLSE is one of the richest sporting conglomerates in the world.

    As for your point about there being 3 Barco's for every Almiron, ATL has literally had 3 homerun signings(Almiron, Martinez v.1, Villabla) compared to one POTENTIAL flop.
    Resources in this game are a lot more than money.

    Martinez is totally different, mid twenties, stranded in Europe. Vilalba is a lesser player, not on same level we are talking about.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper View Post
    We don't have the resources???? thats hilarious. MLSE is one of the richest sporting conglomerates in the world.

    As for your point about there being 3 Barco's for every Almiron, ATL has literally had 3 homerun signings(Almiron, Martinez v.1, Villabla) compared to one POTENTIAL flop.
    That Barco kid is only 19 who moved for big money to a new league/country. Like you say I wouldn't write him off just yet.He showed some flashes of what he can do. The transfer fee paid for him probably put too much expectation on his his young shoulders. He's had off field issues as well but again he's 19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    except Southampton doesn't want 32 yr old giovinco

    1 team wanted him n(and china the yr b4), He is worth a lot to MLS, but clearly not to the rest of the soccer world
    Oh, other teams wanted him - Barca, among others, kicked the tires, don't forget.

    Nobody wanted him at that salary.

    This is the thing with Seba that people don't realise - if he really wanted it, his play at TFC was enough to make get him into a big European squad again - sure some where he would sit, like Barca, but there would be others where he would have started. He could have forced that move.

    But nobody else was going to pay that salary.

    Ultimately, Seba is a player who wanted that payday playing full time more then he wanted to play at a certain level. And when we no longer would be willing to pay him that payday at this level, he found a level that would.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-01-2019 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Oh, other teams wanted him - Barca, among others, kicked the tires, don't forget.

    Nobody wanted him at that salary.

    This is the thing with Seba that people don't realise - if he really wanted it, his play at TFC was enough to make get him into a big European squad again - sure some where he would sit, like Barca, but there would be others where he would have started. He could have forced that move.

    But nobody else was going to pay that salary.

    Ultimately, Seba is a player who wanted that payday playing full time more then he wanted to play at a certain level. And when we no longer would be willing to pay him that payday at this level, he found a level that would.

    Well put.
    Hes so blinded by money I really dont think he knows what he is getting into.



    Im assuming he is also losing out on the long term income plan via his side hustles (using his atomic ant image) that he had opened up in Toronto.

    Anywho, NEXT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There is no chance that we do this. Zero. That's the Porto/Dortmund model. We don't have the resources or infrastructure.

    Atlanta Atlanta Atlanta.... enough already..... for every Almiron there will be 3 Barcos... Atlanta's recruiting without Martino there, is it sustainable? I doubt it.

    It's crazy, I have heard effing 100x more about Atlanta's South Americans than I have ever heard about Valeri or Piatti, the obvious gold standards of how you do the DP thing.

    Every good team needs 3 or 4 great players. There are 25 or 50 of them in MLS, and a couple will be sold every year. This stuff about becoming a selling league, we have heard it all before (eg when Altidore and Edu sold for big numbers). What happens with 3 or 4 players doesn't change the business model for the other 50 top players is turned on its head overnight.

    I look at what NYCFC did (just bought a 23 year old AM from Romania for 8M euros, who is on 1M a year) and I think, how could we do that deal without using a club like Man City's resources? How would we find that player, negotiate with that player, deal with the rampant corruption and weird intermediaries, convince that player to come?
    what?

    Last month you claimed TFC will have a hard time attracting American players. We literally have the best American players in MLS (Bradley, Altidore, Morrow, Moor etc)

    Now you are claiming for every Almiron there will be 3 Barco's when they literally hit 3 home runs with Villalba, Josef Martinez, Miguel Almiron and probably Pity Martinez. And the verdict is still out on Barco who has a lot of potential.

    What about LAFC? Horta? De Rossi?

    Now NYCFC is only a product of Man City? Right. I guess it's the same with Red Bulls and D.C United who have Acosta, Rodriguez and Jara.

    It's pretty self evident good resourceful MLS teams will use capital as leverage to acquire top young players and flip them for a profit.

    It doesn't mean every player will be Almiron but there will be many Almiron's coming to MLS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Martinez is totally different, mid twenties, stranded in Europe.
    He was 23 when he started there. That's a ways off from mid 20's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burlington Red View Post
    That Barco kid is only 19 who moved for big money to a new league/country. Like you say I wouldn't write him off just yet.He showed some flashes of what he can do. The transfer fee paid for him probably put too much expectation on his his young shoulders. He's had off field issues as well but again he's 19.
    Agreed Barco is far from dead. Atlanta handled that saga pretty damn well if you ask me. The kid should thank his lucky stars he made that mistake here in North America as opposed Europe or somewhere else where the media doesn’t hold back as much when it comes to muck raking athletes lives. He could still go on to be a great player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    He was 23 when he started there. That's a ways off from mid 20's.
    Fine. OK.

    He'd been at Torino three years. That's more my point.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I don't know how Barco will turn out, but MLSE will never invest in projects like him. Not on that scale.

    That's venture capital.

    MLSE are suits, value investors.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Fine. OK.

    He'd been at Torino three years. That's more my point.
    So? He's still young, has many more years in his prime and his market value is now at the highest its ever been. If they wanted to sell him this summer they could double their investment. The same cannot be said of any our previous DP signings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don't know how Barco will turn out, but MLSE will never invest in projects like him. Not on that scale.

    That's venture capital.

    MLSE are suits, value investors.
    So if you were a value investor who would you invest in? Piatti/Valeri type or the Martinez/Almiron type? Think about it instead of just automatically choosing the TFC and MLSE are plotting to save every penny and ruin everything because that's what all sports owners really want to do angle.

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    This suspense is killing me!

    I hope we won't have to wait until next week to find out who it's going to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    This suspense is killing me!

    I hope we won't have to wait until next week to find out who it's going to be.
    The fact that it could be 2 weeks means the deal isn't done, so we could be waiting 2 weeks and end up with no player at all. I am avoiding this forum for a while if that happens.

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    Two weeks? Our window shuts May 7th so could last until then. Doubt it but possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    So if you were a value investor who would you invest in? Piatti/Valeri type or the Martinez/Almiron type? Think about it instead of just automatically choosing the TFC and MLSE are plotting to save every penny and ruin everything because that's what all sports owners really want to do angle.
    I don’t have the time. Maybe another day.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I could definitely envision MLSE willing to invest more on transfer fees and less on salaries for young DPs with upside. Much greater likelihood of being profitable in the long run compared to our business model the last few years.

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    "Why out spend teams by the millions when at the end of the day the TV ratings hardly beat the Argo's numbers"

    I'm sure that is the line of thinking at the top.

    What we all want is that solo passionate owner.
    Last edited by Richard; 02-01-2019 at 04:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There is no chance that we do this. Zero. That's the Porto/Dortmund model. We don't have the resources or infrastructure.

    Atlanta Atlanta Atlanta.... enough already..... for every Almiron there will be 3 Barcos... Atlanta's recruiting without Martino there, is it sustainable? I doubt it.

    It's crazy, I have heard effing 100x more about Atlanta's South Americans than I have ever heard about Valeri or Piatti, the obvious gold standards of how you do the DP thing.
    ya this Atlanta dick sucking is becoming much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    "Why out spend teams by the millions when at the end of the day the TV ratings hardly beat the Argo's numbers"

    I'm sure that is the line of thinking at the top.

    What we all want is that solo passionate owner.
    ...from your lips, to God's ear.....
    but not holding my breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    "Why out spend teams by the millions when at the end of the day the TV ratings hardly beat the Argo's numbers"

    I'm sure that is the line of thinking at the top.

    What we all want is that solo passionate owner.
    i dont get your statement,the facts are the club is the biggest spending club in the league by far and will be again this season,yah a passionate owner that wants to line his pockets.i rather have a corp like mlse that really dont care about a profit,tfc is small change for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    ya this Atlanta dick sucking is becoming much.
    I don't like it either but their system worked. Of course to be successful you need legit scouts all over but it can work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ...

    Atlanta Atlanta Atlanta.... enough already..... for every Almiron there will be 3 Barcos... Atlanta's recruiting without Martino there, is it sustainable? I doubt it.

    It's crazy, I have heard effing 100x more about Atlanta's South Americans than I have ever heard about Valeri or Piatti, the obvious gold standards of how you do the DP thing.

    ...
    The exceptionalism runs strong in Atlanta - as does the inability to ascertain fake news. Heck, there's a cadre of Atlanta fans that firmly believe TFC is going bankrupt - Seba not being signed is the proof we have given up trying to compete with them and are only a couple of years away from being sold back to MLS by our sad sack ownership. Not sure where that viewpoint started but I suspect somebody on reddit said something and it went from there.

    Toronto FC is not going to do the Atlanta thing because that's not how this team wants to operate. TFC will bring in DPs who can make the team compete for trophies now. The "buy and then sell" thing isn't what MLSE needs to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There is no chance that we do this. Zero. That's the Porto/Dortmund model. We don't have the resources or infrastructure.

    Atlanta Atlanta Atlanta.... enough already..... for every Almiron there will be 3 Barcos... Atlanta's recruiting without Martino there, is it sustainable? I doubt it.

    It's crazy, I have heard effing 100x more about Atlanta's South Americans than I have ever heard about Valeri or Piatti, the obvious gold standards of how you do the DP thing.

    Every good team needs 3 or 4 great players. There are 25 or 50 of them in MLS, and a couple will be sold every year. This stuff about becoming a selling league, we have heard it all before (eg when Altidore and Edu sold for big numbers). What happens with 3 or 4 players doesn't change the business model for the other 50 top players is turned on its head overnight.

    I look at what NYCFC did (just bought a 23 year old AM from Romania for 8M euros, who is on 1M a year) and I think, how could we do that deal without using a club like Man City's resources? How would we find that player, negotiate with that player, deal with the rampant corruption and weird intermediaries, convince that player to come?
    Thank you. Totally agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Toronto FC is not going to do the Atlanta thing because that's not how this team wants to operate. TFC will bring in DPs who can make the team compete for trophies now. The "buy and then sell" thing isn't what MLSE needs to do.
    So you mean like Atlanta? The two aren't mutually exclusive and it is how pretty much every successful club from weaker leagues operate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Toronto FC is not going to do the Atlanta thing because that's not how this team wants to operate. TFC will bring in DPs who can make the team compete for trophies now. The "buy and then sell" thing isn't what MLSE needs to do.
    It's not about buying and selling. It's about the type of player. We probably will be targeting players in the skill and age range that Atlanta did. Not saying we'd look to sell any player we got but we will be looking at similar types I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomLawrence View Post
    So you mean like Atlanta? The two aren't mutually exclusive and it is how pretty much every successful club from weaker leagues operate.
    The most successful clubs develop their own players through their academy systems and sell to the bigger leagues.

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    Atlanta Atlanta Atlanta.... enough already..... for every Almiron there will be 3 Barcos... Atlanta's recruiting without Martino there, is it sustainable? I doubt it.

    Too early to call Barco a bust, with Almiron out they can move Barco inside and have Pity out on the left, Barco will be a better player next year, he looked much better during the playoffs. He might never become an Almiron level guy but he still has time to develop into another asset to flip

 

 

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