TFC 2018-2019 player off season moves/speculation/rumours

[rydermike]

I think Giovinco was not in the lineup yesterday for al hilal. correct me if i'm wrong as im not really comfortable with google on these games

He wasn't but I also noticed and from highlights Gomis was wearing #9. Gomis wore 18 when Giovinco played. I think (completely guessing here) being an Arab Cup game (not league game) maybe rosters are finalized earlier in the competition, therefore Gio was ineligible? Maybe also that's why Gomis was wearing 9? Did he switch and give that number to Gio earlier in the season?

Complete guesses and questions on my part. Don't really know where to look for Saudi soccer info.

[ensco]

You need professional help if you think Orlando is doing anything different than TFC. Both of the players are in league battles and Europa and both local windows have closed. It’s identical situations. Saying it’s not shows you have an axe to grind.

So, for your third post, name calling, and declaring people have an “axe to grind”.

I question who exactly you are, and why you are suddenly here now

(I am used to name calling, btw, it happens to all of us, and I accept it from long timers that have contributed and I know mostly have their hearts in the right place - hi Reggie!)

[stegosaurus]

He wasn't but I also noticed and from highlights Gomis was wearing #9. Gomis wore 18 when Giovinco played. I think (completely guessing here) being an Arab Cup game (not league game) maybe rosters are finalized earlier in the competition, therefore Gio was ineligible? Maybe also that's why Gomis was wearing 9? Did he switch and give that number to Gio earlier in the season?

Complete guesses and questions on my part. Don't really know where to look for Saudi soccer info.

Either that or numbers are assigned by roster spot like in the French cup. Not sure though.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

Just wondering when this turned into a Belgian football page?

And also a Saudi football page, lol...

[portu]

Personally I’m somewhat less concerned about the “ethics” of it than if we have any legal standing to force something through. Negotiating a later release to me isn’t “playing nice,” it’s just the only real option we have to get him from a team that is fighting the transfer and believes they are in the legal right.

Sporting isn’t fighting for Nani btw.

We have no legal standing in this case.

Canary10 is right, Sporting isn't fighting for Nani because they want to ditch his massive wages.

[rydermike]

Either that or numbers are assigned by roster spot like in the French cup. Not sure though.

Given there were players wearing numbers 28, 44, 70,77,88 in the game, I'm going to assume numbers are not predetermined.
The rest of the players on AL Hilal wore their regular numbers except al dawsari who wore Gomis's 18 (instead of his 16)

[Webdogg]

So, for your third post, name calling, and declaring people have an “axe to grind”.

I question who exactly you are, and why you are suddenly here now

(I am used to name calling, btw, it happens to all of us, and I accept it from long timers that have contributed and I know mostly have their hearts in the right place - hi Reggie!)

What was the name calling I did? Please point it out and I’ll edit and post an apology.

[ensco]

What was the name calling I did? Please point it out and I’ll edit and post an apology.

You told me I need professional help. For an opinion btw that, while controversial, has quite a bit of support here, and we have been discussing for a couple of weeks.

FYI on this board we go hard after the post all the time, but never after the poster. (A mod can chime in if they wish to clarify)

Also let me be clear about why I question who you are - one thing I am seeing is that, given the vacuum of actual media coverage of these transfer saga stories, arguments made here seem to be reappearing afterward on Twitter, Reddit etc. This is where everyone comes first.

So I have been expecting trolls to show up to try to affect the narrative around here. if you are not one, I apologize... but I think the credibility bar is higher at moments like these for new posters.

[Webdogg]

You hold me I need professional help. For an opinion btw that, while controversial, has quite a bit of support here, and we have been discussing for a couple of weeks.

That’s not name calling i don’t believe. Saying I called you a name is quite severe and I simply didn’t do no such thing. I didn’t think what I wrote was overly offensive but if you’re offended then I apologize. I misspoke and shouldn’t have said that if it offended you.

Back to topic, if what TFC did is against rules then so is what Orlando is doing. Just because Sporting is okay with it shouldn’t matter - it’s either a rules violation or it isn’t. If you got stopped for speeding but the cop let you go, you were still breaking the law.

My point is/was that many people claim TFC broke the rules but they clearly didn’t. Pretty sure if they broke a rule around windows them MLS would have warned teams right away as to not repeat. Orlando repeated for sure.

It’s cool if you think the approach was a dick move by TFC but it should be clear there’s no rules broken.

[Webdogg]

You told me I need professional help. For an opinion btw that, while controversial, has quite a bit of support here, and we have been discussing for a couple of weeks.

FYI on this board we go hard after the post all the time, but never after the poster. (A mod can chime in if they wish to clarify)

Also let me be clear about why I question who you are - one thing I am seeing is that, given the vacuum of actual media coverage of these transfer saga stories, arguments made here seem to be reappearing afterward on Twitter, Reddit etc. This is where everyone comes first.

So I have been expecting trolls to show up to try to affect the narrative around here. if you are not one, I apologize... but I think the credibility bar is higher at moments like these for new posters.

I see you edited after I had already grabbed the quote. Don’t worry about questioning who I am it doesn’t bother me that’s why I didn’t address. I see many people do the same to new posters which I find funny as what threads did you think a new poster would be interested in, new grass or BMO expansion plans? Obviously the hot topics are going to draw out the new posters, it’s what gets them excited enough to contribute.

[El matador]

well Al hilal was the team that triggered this whole thing with Pozuelo in January. Ultimately Pozuelo said no to them because he thought the league was below him (and my opinion probably quality of life wasn`t what he would want). So it`s not like Al Hilal cared about Genk and their situation. And side rant this is why i have an Issue with Giovinco...because he left for money not because tfc didn`t offer him a contract or because tfc doesn`t have a winning mentality. Don`t get me wrong, i don`t care that he left for more money, that`s expected and if i was a 32 year professional player with my career ending you bet your ass i would probably take that deal too. I`m more angry that he lied. he released his instagram post that night to one up any tfc press release….and people wonder why tfc didn`t do a good bye post….

[Ultra & Proud]

I just read FIFA's 'Regulations on the Status and Transfers of Players' PDF and by their terms everything from TFC's side was done correctly. Teams can approach leagues whose windows are closed to transfer or initiate buy outs. The window of the 'seller' club has no bearing. Only the window of the club that would be registering the new player matters in this case. It's different if two teams who share windows do this while the window is closed because it has to directly lead to registration, which can't be done in this period.

So we're back to the same point again. Triggering the buy out is fine. The Poz email saying he will stay until the season is over muddies it. Poz could fight it and win but he would have to go to higher courts as this law doesn't exist in Euro continental court. But there's no point in that because it'll take forever.

So basically, we followed the rules. We didn't do anything different than Barca, Liverpool, PSG, etc do every year. Yes, it's new for a MLS team to do as it usually happens to us but that's how world football is now. It's not our management's job to worry about Genk or anyone else. Unsettling players for your gain is part of the transfer game now. That's how Liverpool got VVD, that's how lots of players move to big clubs. People may not like how it goes as it's cut throat and unfair but it's been going on for years and now we're joining in with big boys. Good for us.

[El matador]

correct me if i`m wrong but barcelona did not want to pay the 30million because neymar came on the USA tour fully knowing that he would be leaving them immediately after. In other words neymar did not leave right away and waited for the USA tour fully knowing that he would get 30 million for completing such tour and then he was going to take off. which is exactly what he did. That`s pretty grimey, but what else would you expect from someone with the character of neymar.

[El matador]

meant to quote ensco and auzzy in my previous posts......sorry still a noob here and i thought i replied with the quotes.

[Richard]

Just wondering when this turned into a Belgian football page?

Football is a world sport and I quite like the discussion. It's a nice change of pace.

[stegosaurus]

correct me if i`m wrong but barcelona did not want to pay the 30million because neymar came on the USA tour fully knowing that he would be leaving them immediately after. In other words neymar did not leave right away and waited for the USA tour fully knowing that he would get 30 million for completing such tour and then he was going to take off. which is exactly what he did. That`s pretty grimey, but what else would you expect from someone with the character of neymar.

You mean he did what was required to earn the money, and then Barça didn’t want to pay it because he hurt Bartomeu’s feeings?

[ag futbol]

Maybe I don’t see the full backstory here on Neymar but what’s wrong with showing up for a few extra $ then leaving after?

If the club wants to be smart about it, make the bonus after the season, not after a preseason tour.

[stegosaurus]

Maybe I don’t see the full backstory here on Neymar but what’s wrong with showing up for a few extra $ then leaving after?

If the club wants to be smart about it, make the bonus after the season, not after a preseason tour.

This situation is similar to the current one facing TFC. In any case, the player has still shown up on the team and played. Didn’t appear to be sulking around the field, despite the banner. Obviously he’s a professional even if he was trying to force a move (as character was brought into this before).

[ensco]

That’s not name calling i don’t believe. Saying I called you a name is quite severe and I simply didn’t do no such thing. I didn’t think what I wrote was overly offensive but if you’re offended then I apologize. I misspoke and shouldn’t have said that if it offended you.

Back to topic, if what TFC did is against rules then so is what Orlando is doing. Just because Sporting is okay with it shouldn’t matter - it’s either a rules violation or it isn’t. If you got stopped for speeding but the cop let you go, you were still breaking the law.

My point is/was that many people claim TFC broke the rules but they clearly didn’t. Pretty sure if they broke a rule around windows them MLS would have warned teams right away as to not repeat. Orlando repeated for sure.

It’s cool if you think the approach was a dick move by TFC but it should be clear there’s no rules broken.

Apology accepted. Thanks. Also welcome to the forum.

I don’t think there is any argument about “the rules”- TFC almost certainly obeyed them.

I just ask ask myself how we would have felt if an Al Hilal or whomever had “signed” Giovinco during our playoffs, when it would have been easy for them to check with the team and find out that a signing like that isn’t clearly valid.

I say it would have 100% pissed everyone at TFC off, because it would have seemed like someone had pointlessly interfered in our club at a moment in time when it really hurt us.

This is is a rare fact pattern that would be hard to find a comparable for, so that's less the issue. I just think it makes MLS/TFC look bad in places they quietly really care about. There is a way things are done. Just figure out the position of the club beforehand, and if they have an issue, flush it first.

Clubs take each other on all the time. But there is a way it's done. It's kind of analogous (warning: overwrought hyperbole alert) to the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbour. The fact that it was done without a war declaration really enraged America as much or more than the act itself.

[JoesphNdo]

Oh for sure you wouldn't be happy, but being cold, if Genk didn't want this to happen they shouldn't have negotiated a 8m buy out clause in his contract. They did, likely as a tool to get him to sign for longer/less money, and so it is what it is. This is on whoever made the call to give their captain and most important player the ability to walk whenever he wants for relatively small transfer fee with no input from the club. If it happened us with Giovinco/anyone I'd be annoyed but mainly at whoever signed the deal rather than at the club for using it

There is no sneak attack on using the clause the club agreed too. For this to be Pearl Harbour, America would had to have had a contract that stipulated that Japan could attack whenever they wanted, then complained when they did. Frankly, buy out clause means you dont have to care what the club thinks - and the club knows that when they sign it. Buy out transfers happen routinely and this is how they're done

[Webdogg]

Apology accepted. Thanks. Also welcome to the forum.

I don’t think there is any argument about “the rules”- TFC almost certainly obeyed them.

I just ask ask myself how we would have felt if an Al Hilal or whomever had “signed” Giovinco during our playoffs, when it would have been easy for them to check with the team and find out that a signing like that isn’t clearly valid.

I say it would have 100% pissed everyone at TFC off, because it would have seemed like someone had pointlessly interfered in our club at a moment in time when it really hurt us.

This is is a rare fact pattern that would be hard to find a comparable for, so that's less the issue. I just think it makes MLS/TFC look bad in places they quietly really care about. There is a way things are done. Just figure out the position of the club beforehand, and if they have an issue, flush it first.

Clubs take each other on all the time. But there is a way it's done. It's kind of analogous (warning: overwrought hyperbole alert) to the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbour. The fact that it was done without a war declaration really enraged America as much or more than the act itself.

Sure I’d be super pissed but when the club negotiated a buy out clause what they are saying is they would accommodate a fair transfer. Essentially the club reneged, or are trying to renege on a deal. If they tried to get a commitment from the player in January, why not renegotiate the deal, up or remove the buyout to protect themselves? That’s essentially the reason you have contracts and not verbal commitments in the first place. This is 100% on Genk, they could have amended the contract very easily if they didn’t want to accept only 8-10m buyout.

IIRC there’s some Portuguese fellow who had his contract continuously modified to keep upping the buyout. When the 200m’ish transfer was met, the club didn’t cry like bitches and complain. They honoured the contract buyout clause even though you can be damn certain they didn’t want to lose the player either.

[Bushmancan]

Completely agree, and if I was a Genk fan I would be disappointed as well but no more than we were with Gio.

What surprises me is that no one is talking about how the Menendez deal cratered. Either the player was negotiating in bad faith or the FO just misread the situation but we still are no closer to some fast, seasoned wingers.

[stegosaurus]

Completely agree, and if I was a Genk fan I would be disappointed as well but no more than we were with Gio.

What surprises me is that no one is talking about how the Menendez deal cratered. Either the player was negotiating in bad faith or the FO just misread the situation but we still are no closer to some fast, seasoned wingers.

His last loan spell was $500k or something, and we offered $150k — no salary info was released though. Other than that, I don’t think there’s been much talk of what went wrong.

[bought with blo]

Completely agree, and if I was a Genk fan I would be disappointed as well but no more than we were with Gio.

What surprises me is that no one is talking about how the Menendez deal cratered. Either the player was negotiating in bad faith or the FO just misread the situation but we still are no closer to some fast, seasoned wingers.

I don't care about menedez. He was a gamble. Could as likely been a pile of dung as great. Wingers are a dime a dozen. If we get one fine, I just hope they work diligently to find a good one, and make the best deal. I know we need some upgrades at winger, but I don't think they are make or break at the moment. Between now and the end of the window we should be able get something.

[Bushmancan]

Disagree, we need both if we are changing formation. Not even a big Menendez fan. just underwhelmed with the developments. Clearly we need a DP CAM like Poz but if he has no one to pass too, what good does it do?

How did we miss on both? Are there any more rumoured targets ?

[El matador]

You mean he did what was required to earn the money, and then Barça didn’t want to pay it because he hurt Bartomeu’s feeings?

He went on a pre-season tour with Barcelona while he knew he was leaving. Not only he gave the idea he was going to be with the club for the season he also took valuable pre-season minutes from other players. As soon as pre-season done he took off. i could care less for Barcelona to be honest but that is a very crap move by Neymar….all about the money. Again my opinion of Neymar is based on actions on and off the pitch. And the level of cheating on the pitch matches the level of snakeness off of it.

[El matador]

Apology accepted. Thanks. Also welcome to the forum.

I don’t think there is any argument about “the rules”- TFC almost certainly obeyed them.

I just ask ask myself how we would have felt if an Al Hilal or whomever had “signed” Giovinco during our playoffs, when it would have been easy for them to check with the team and find out that a signing like that isn’t clearly valid.

I say it would have 100% pissed everyone at TFC off, because it would have seemed like someone had pointlessly interfered in our club at a moment in time when it really hurt us.

This is is a rare fact pattern that would be hard to find a comparable for, so that's less the issue. I just think it makes MLS/TFC look bad in places they quietly really care about. There is a way things are done. Just figure out the position of the club beforehand, and if they have an issue, flush it first.

Clubs take each other on all the time. But there is a way it's done. It's kind of analogous (warning: overwrought hyperbole alert) to the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbour. The fact that it was done without a war declaration really enraged America as much or more than the act itself.

100% it would have pissed off every TFC fan...no question about it. Unfortunately though, the transfer windows around the world are not synched and this is bound to happen…...either by us to someone else or vice versa.

[jazzy]

Hello, thanks for accepting me. I promise I will keep it polite ;-). I've read the discussion about Pozuelo here and I would like to help you gain insight from our perspective.

Pozo has always said he wants to go for the bigger money, so there was no surprise from me that when Al Alhli with a bag of money he doubted. Genk convinced him to stay and they made a (financial) agreement. This contract was never signed but the addendum to the contract was negotiated trough mail (with a releasedate 16/06 mentioned). In Belgian law a verbal agreement or an agreement trough mail is binding, no signature needed. I haven't read the emails but according to the Genk-management there was an agreement made trough mail. The press conference where he says he is staying untill the end of the season is another element Genk could use in court (as it comes to that).

If they wanted to dispute the fact there was an agreement on staying in court Pozuelo's management made a (big) error by posting a personal statement where he says on paper that there was an agreement. He (read the manager) says now he was pressurized by Genk to stay, something that is hard to prove and really unlikely if you know our management. And any judge seeing his interviews in the press after the announcement will conclude that is not the case (he says he is happy here, his wife told him to stay, he wants to help the team etc etc).

Just before they want to finalise (sign) the addendum to the contract Toronto popped in the picture. Most likely his manager who smelled money saw an opportunity. Now he wants to leave, for Genk and us as Genkfans this is a very difficult situation, we are currently in a very good position to win the league and in the middle of a series of very important games. If he leaves now we don't have the opportunity to replace him as our transferwindow is closed.

Our club has always been very fair and correct to our players, even now they are not vilifying the player but leaving the door open for a stay.

Genk believes their case is solid and all lawyers consulted in the press agree that Genk will probably will win if it comes to court. Henceforth, I think a normal buy-out is not possible. I think that Pozuelo has two options, the first one is to stay, the other one is to use the law of '78. The last law gives players the chance to break their contract if they pay the remaining of their contract to the club. But it doesn't make them a free player, so Pozuelo can't play untill september. Furthermore appearantly your league doesn't permit players who do that. If he breaks his contract China could be a way out, that arrangement doesn't count there I've been told, but that's not what he wants. Personally I think a transfer of Pozuelo before the end of our competition is of the table, maybe an agreement that he signs on the last day of your transfermarket, then there are only three more games to go in our competition.

Personally I think Pozuelo is influenced by a greedy manager who just wants the deal done, the player Pozuelo isn't unhappy in Genk as proved yesterday. I also believes he wants to come to Toronto and securing his future, but the timing isn't right. And really Genk is not a club run by villains, we are concidered just the opposite of that in Belgium. I hope that he gets his transfer to you guys in june (if that is possible).


To end I would like to add that Chris Mavinga is a hero in Genk, he helped us get our last title.

First Thanx for Mavinga , he IS the best defender we have, fast and very gracious ......so you’re in my good books . It’s a shame we even entered this fiasco. Our mgmt is at fault here , and their international inexperience in negotiations is compounding the problems . Greedy agents ? Surely you jest , always the problem , we were played and both teams are hurt . But that is normal in Football isn’t it . I’m sure our mgmt will come up begging ( behind the scenes and wait for all legalities to clear ), as they are behind the eightball and looking toward a failed season , in some ways due to their incompetence. Poluezo definitely will be there to help your team , and maybe longer ....unless it’s rectified for June , but now as you say Sept . Enjoy , ..quality attitude btw .

[ag futbol]

Completely agree, and if I was a Genk fan I would be disappointed as well but no more than we were with Gio.

What surprises me is that no one is talking about how the Menendez deal cratered. Either the player was negotiating in bad faith or the FO just misread the situation but we still are no closer to some fast, seasoned wingers.

Supposedly it came down to paying some sort of tax bill. Either party (AAAJ or TFC) budged and the deal died. Don’t think it’s Menedez’s fault.

[ensco]

I still think we move Jozy to Tigres, Vargas goes from Tigres to Portland, and something significant on the Timbers roster (most likely one of their MFs not names Valeri) from the Timbers to us.