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  1. #1471
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    This is not good. Is this going to happen every three days for the next six months? With every reporter asking every player about it?

    I don’t think this has any impact on future signings. That isn’t the issue.

    The huge challenge with expiring guys is the potential negative impact on the room. These types of comments hurt the team, but are inevitable. Plus what happens if Vanney needs someone to play out of position, or Gio to focus again on assists or some other team goal (players get paid for goals).

    Which is why you mostly don’t see this.

    I believe there is a strong likelihood that Vazquez' departure is linked to this. He saw this developing and it played a part in him skedaddling. (Same as Bez.) Not saying that VV isn’t making more too (but he isn’t making millions more!), but I think he might have or would have stayed if he saw a different game plan unfolding. He really liked it here, not very long ago, and Qatar isn’t Malibu.

    Gio and Altidore should be signed or moved by January 31. I am really thinking that they should be moved since they won’t be signed. It’s sad but it's better than what is going down.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-20-2019 at 10:01 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  2. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is not good. Is this going to happen every three days for the next six months? With every reporter asking every player about it?

    I don’t think this has any impact on future signings. That isn’t the issue.

    The huge challenge with expiring guys is the potential negative impact on the room. These types of comments hurt the team, but are inevitable. Plus what happens if Vanney needs someone to play out of position, or Gio to focus again on assists or some other team goal (players get paid for goals).

    Which is why you mostly don’t see this.

    I believe there is a strong likelihood that Vazquez' departure is linked to this. He saw this developing and it played a part in him skedaddling. (Same as Bez.) Not saying that VV isn’t making more too (but he isn’t making millions more!), but I think he might have stayed if he saw a different game plan unfolding.

    Gio and Altidore should be signed or moved by January 31. I am really thinking that they should be moved since they won’t be signed. It’s sad but it's better than what is going down
    .
    This for sure^

  3. #1473
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    It should have been taken care of this past off season.

    I haven't heard a lot from Bradley, what about his status?

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    Bradley is at USMNT camp and so the reporters having attacked him yet.

    So TFC has likely told them they won’t make their current salaries going forward and the players aren’t pleased. At the end of the day they are still under contract this year. It would be in their best interests to play well (exhibited through their stats) so that they can continue to demand a high salary with any other team. I don’t agree that they need to be moved before Jan 31.

    What needs to happen is for the Toronto media to stop asking the same damn questions every interview.

  5. #1475
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    ^The Toronto media is not the problem.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^The Toronto media is not the problem.
    The media in general is not the problem. Even then they pull punches. Jozy basically told Herc he's not getting renewed and Herc changed tune on the whole convo rather than double down like most journos

  7. #1477
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    i love the 3 dps...the only way i sign them is at half the money they are making now.the prob will be is that 2 of them are domestic and most likely they would be replaced by imports and that would change the structure of the roster. down the road.

  8. #1478
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    I wonder how much the looming long term deals with Mathews and Marner that will be on the table are playing into this from a BOG standpoint. I know even with MLSE making profit overall, each division/team will be judged on their overall financial performance with each president being held accountable.

    From a cap standpoint 6 million to 3 million does not really matter at all, it’s the rate of return on the investment that will matter to the board. In the last couple years there has be a restructuring of MLSE’s global partnership division that has really put TFC at a disadvantage. They went from having people focused on a respective team to having everyone selling everything, meaning Leafs and Raptors all the time with everything else falling by the wayside. It’s the evolving world of MLSE. Without a visionary like TL, TFC is in a very different place now, one that is very much focused on the bottom line. It was his bravado that pushed the bottom line to the side in the name of giving this team profile after almost falling off into a irrelevant place. I guess we will have to see where this new world leads.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  9. #1479
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    ^I don’t think the Leafs or Raps have anything to do with it in that sense. I do think that MLSE may not understand how unusual “playing out your option” is in football, and how it's not like North American sports.

    I think anyone would wonder... MLSE brass (Manning first and foremost) would look at spending in MLS and see that other teams are near the top in league spending, highly competitive ....and spending $10M a year less. Going that way doesn’t make anyone a bad person.

    But dithering about it is not a valid reason to throw 2019 away. If that is what you are doing, do it. If not, make offers to these guys.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-20-2019 at 01:09 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  10. #1480
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    "Toronto FC considering making an offer for Independiente player Jonathan Menendez."

  11. #1481
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    I wonder what Vanney must think of all this, I guess if he's sacked then he can point to the locker room instability.

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    I agree that this uncertainty is a real problem. But I don’t agree you can just replace these guys - they are fantastic and work well together. Replacing that is no sure thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I wonder what Vanney must think of all this, I guess if he's sacked then he can point to the locker room instability.
    Vanney only gets sacked if they don't make the playoffs.

  14. #1484
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Vanney only gets sacked if they don't make the playoffs.
    I think if they play a mediocre season and exit in the first round that will be the end of him. For a top payroll team one round of playoffs and medaling performance isn’t going to cut it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    "Toronto FC considering making an offer for Independiente player Jonathan Menendez."
    Bit of a blank slate that one. Feels like an alternative to Janson.

  15. #1485
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    Yeah interesting one that. Apparently not the only name being thrown about.

  16. #1486
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    Looks like we were linked with him back in the summer too. Paul Mariner Scouting report looks very similar to Janson (although, perhaps tenantively a better finisher)

  17. #1487
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    I find these quotes from Seba really disturbing - what on earth is management thinking??

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/...is-future-club

    “I don’t know if it will happen or not, but I would love to stay in Toronto,” Giovinco told reporters in English. “I don’t know for them it’s the same. I will see in the next month.”


    Probed further, Giovinco indicated his desire for some indication from the club before the regular season begins.


    “I hope [they] can say something about my future, no?” Giovinco said. “I do what I do for the club, for the team. I deserve to know my future for the club, the truth. If they want me to stay, or they don’t want me anymore. But at least they have to say something. Because I don’t see anything. They [are] scared to say something, no? Why are they waiting to say the truth?”


    The Italian star insisted “for me, nothing changes,” regardless of his status, but he believed a resolution would result in all parties being “more relaxed” heading into a campaign where TFC look to contend in MLS again after a disappointing 2018 season.

  18. #1488
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    There's something seriously wrong here. Whatever about deciding to to move on from the DPs, sometimes you have to make cold business decisions and it may be that it's the logical thing to do, but look at these comments. Our top players openly calling out the club saying they have no idea what is going on, you really don't see comments like that made publicly often and I'd worry it's a sign something is very wrong

  19. #1489
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    There's something seriously wrong here. Whatever about deciding to to move on from the DPs, sometimes you have to make cold business decisions and it may be that it's the logical thing to do, but look at these comments. Our top players openly calling out the club saying they have no idea what is going on, you really don't see comments like that made publicly often and I'd worry it's a sign something is very wrong
    im not entirely convinced of it. Think Bez leaving plays a part. ALso think theyre gonna let most these dudes contracts end and move on and they havent said anything yet. Might keep Seba for a season or two tops but think Jozy is on his way out. Think if they announce it itll mess with chemistry/play, suppose not saying anything its likely/possible too but at least then there is the possibility of reupping.

  20. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    im not entirely convinced of it. Think Bez leaving plays a part. ALso think theyre gonna let most these dudes contracts end and move on and they havent said anything yet. Might keep Seba for a season or two tops but think Jozy is on his way out. Think if they announce it itll mess with chemistry/play, suppose not saying anything its likely/possible too but at least then there is the possibility of reupping.
    Having your two best players unsettled doesn’t seem to be working. Can’t go all season like this.

  21. #1491
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    I think they should be keeping them both - but Seba and Jozy are a part of that decision making too. I am guessing Manning does not have any where near Lieweke’s authority.

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    Lots of stuff from the players' side here and none from the team (not counting the leaks).

    We've had the "players talk to TFC journoss" day.

    Yesterday was the "stars talk to MLS journos in California" day.

    Think we are about done with this for now.

  23. #1493
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    This is developing into a big problem. They need to get them signed up for a 2 year extension...3 for Bradley & maybe Altidore.

    If they can't agree terms - they get traded and new fresh DP's brought in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    This is developing into a big problem. They need to get them signed up for a 2 year extension...3 for Bradley & maybe Altidore.

    If they can't agree terms - they get traded and new fresh DP's brought in.
    This assumes Manning & Curtis want to re-sign them in the first place, for Altidore and Giovinco anyways. I have no real read on the Bradley situation.

    The way Altidore and Giovinco are talking makes it clear we haven't offered either of them any sort of deal.

    Combined with the intentional silence on the part of management (and it is intentional - they are definitely aware of the stink Altidore and especially Giovinco are raising here), the optics of this are that, at best, management wants them to prove they can still perform before offering any deal, and at worst they have already decided to move on after this season.

    The longer this goes on without any comments from Curtis or Manning the more I lean to the latter.

  25. #1495
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    Hard for me to imagine that no conversations have been held, where it would be made clear that a decision will be taken when they feel it's best for the club (especially now, with Curtis just in)—the way it's supposed to be, especially when dealing with such potentially hamstringing contracts (pardon the pun), and what all players are supposed to understand about a club's operations (no one's bigger than the club); they will do what they can to ensure the players are treated as respectfully as possible, but when you put on that jersey, you should know what time it is.

    Someone mentioned elsewhere that it's curious the players have never come out and gave a general idea of what kind of deal they're looking for or would sign now, which makes their painting themselves as the victim a little difficult to take, after making millions, and with legitimate question-marks over their production/health, going forward.

    They make it seem like they're so fed up with these questions, but don't really offer anything that would dispel any concerns; they could just as easily say, "you know, of course we'd love to be extended, by now… however, after last season, especially, we can understand the club's side of things, and ultimately, their job is to do what's best for the badge—what we want, as well; if the new GM and co. want to see, first hand, how things go in the first part of the season, then it's down to us to continue to make our case, and let the pieces fall where they may."

    I mean, by all accounts, the players always wax poetic about the professionalism, pampering and generally respectful manner, as far as how the club has handled them, to this point. Does that count for nothing, now?! Okay, things are getting a little tricky, with some big decisions looming—understandable that they have to take their time, and you'd think their treatment of the players, up to now, will have bought them said time, and they can give them the benefit of the doubt that, whatever happens, they'll try to go about it in the right way.

    The whole situation is just frustrating. I LOVE these guys!

  26. #1496
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    It seems certain the club won’t pay them close to what they currently make.

    My guess: Manning has decided he has no option here. If he offers them $3M a year they will be insulted. If he does nothing they will be insulted.

    Alternative: just tell them what you will pay them, and have them feel insulted. Tell them it might be more based on performance. Better kind of insulted.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Terminate contracts for all 3 DP'S by mutual consent resign them for 1 year at 18m for giovinco 12m for Altidore and Bradley pay them more now. Then resign for the next 3 years at non DP salary for all 3 players .... retire as reds

  28. #1498
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    Could the new CBA and the rumored potential drop of three DP spots to two be having an impact on how TFC negotiate?
    Last edited by Areathrasher; 01-21-2019 at 09:33 AM.

  29. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Barrett19 View Post
    Terminate contracts for all 3 DP'S by mutual consent resign them for 1 year at 18m for giovinco 12m for Altidore and Bradley pay them more now. Then resign for the next 3 years at non DP salary for all 3 players .... retire as reds
    This is what I would do except I wouldn't give them that much. Maybe Giovinco $15M on year one then a few years at $1.5M. Would average out around what he gets now. Bradley I would just resign to another year at $6M then TAM for a couple years. Altidore is a tough one. On one hand, if healthy, he would deserve like a year or two at like $6-7M then see about TAM or whatever depending on the next CBA. Problem is that he hasn't shown he can stay healthy and the odds of suddenly becoming durable aren't likely as he gets in to his 30's.

  30. #1500
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Barrett19 View Post
    Terminate contracts for all 3 DP'S by mutual consent resign them for 1 year at 18m for giovinco 12m for Altidore and Bradley pay them more now. Then resign for the next 3 years at non DP salary for all 3 players .... retire as reds
    Not sure about the numbers, but this is a creative idea.

    Suspect the league office would disallow.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

 

 

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