Fire Vanney
Fire Vanney
I am convinced that Irwin is the worst keeper in TFC history............. and we have had some bad ones.
Yeah. It's really all the injuries that exposed our squad building mistakes. If we had a normal year injury wise it wouldn't look this bad, but here we are.Originally Posted by ag futbol
Clearly getting rid of Beitashour was a mistake. I do think VDW is the better player but spending a bunch of TAM on a RB is questionable on its own; doing so when we had a good proven player there is worse. Why not just give Beitashour a small raise and live with it? We had a great back line. Give Beita a raise and sign Auro as the backup. This is literally the exact same mistake Vancouver made with Beitashour, they traded him to us because he wanted a raise and they thought they could find better. Joke's on us now.
Aketxe was a failed signing, so that whole thing was a huge bust.
The TAM spent on Aketxe and VDW should've been spent on a CB (I mean, VDW's ended up playing a lot of CB anyways, driving home the point that we needed another). Moor is getting up there in age and realistically was showing signs of slowing down towards the end of last year. Bez had to recognize that and be proactive.
We've never had a proper backup for Altidore, who's crucial to the way we play. We need a Will Bruin, an unspectacular guy that can come off the bench and do his best Altidore impression to let us get by.
Janson is a nice player but he's a luxury. He can be part of this going forward but we have other problems to solve.
Oh, and since it's timely... Irwin is massively overpaid for a backup keeper and I have always suspected that he was not good. Well, he's not good.
Last edited by notthesun; 09-01-2018 at 09:15 PM.
Disgusting effort..two goals let in right after the half I really don't want to lose 18 games or worse 20 why is Irwin playing. Awful defence Awful Passing Janson missing two sitters Gio missing one and the "Handball" goal not called back how many VAR goes against us I'm going in two weeks.Its not about making the playoffs save face at least and win 10 games....
Irwin needs to get rid of that moustache
Spending that much money on a RB, period, makes me think we don’t know what we are doing. Teams simply don’t make those kind of moves. It’s a poor use of resources no matter how great he is. And to be frank, I don’t think he’s *that* great.
I hope, for Osorio’s sake, Vazquez isn’t through. Without receiving perfect passes onto his left foot, a yard from goal, how will the CDN international superstar ever score again. He is so overrated, it is laughable.
Of all the stuff you could point out, this is literally complaining about the one thing that has gone right this year and assuming it’s imminently going to go wrong. A bit silly, I think.
You really are a one track commentator. I don't believe Vanney is the difference.
You forget our Burmudan wonder that Mariner picked up. Freddy Hall. Not even USL level.
We are missing Beitashour, trading him was a huge mistake. Hopefully we don't wait as long for another championship as the Red Sox did after they traded Babe Ruth.
You’ve nailed it, the problem with our season is Osorio. Insight. Brilliant.
I don't think we played that bad tonight. We had 62% possession and created more chances than they did, although we did have trouble finishing. Trade keepers and we win the game.
We started the year with arrogance. It showed in not resigning Beita, in VDW and Axteke, in the over the top celebrations of our championship - even Gio commented on that - and it has killed us. I put that down to Bez and Vanney. Over confident and didn’t see a) our weaknesses and b) our opponents strengthening.
Still, greatest TFC team we are likely to see for a long time was the one on the field last year. Most of them are still here. I am cheering for them.
I stand corrected. Irwin is the 2nd worst keeper we have ever had.
Let me guess you played youth soccer with or against Osorio and he made it and you didn’t, because man you are sounding like that guy with your crap about Osorio, if you think Osorio is the problem why this team is in this fucken mess than it’s time you start watching a different sport, please give it up already!
I also want to point out Vazquez was 3rd on the team in minutes played last season and Mavinga was 9th. Both above the 2000 minute mark; for comparison Bradley is the only player that's broken 2000 minutes for us this year. Vazquez especially but Mavinga as well were quite healthy.
Vazquez very clearly was screwed over by the short off-season. With his age, injury history, and playing so much last year, he was pretty much guaranteed to struggle with injuries. I don't think management and the medical staff did a good job in realizing that he was likely running on fumes; he should've been given the first 2 months of the season completely off to rest and recharge like he needed to.
Mavinga's had a horrid run of injuries this year but in his case I'm not convinced it's anything over than bad luck. In any case we should have signed/must now sign another starting CB regardless. But I think it's a bit silly to assume this is what we're going to keep getting from Mavinga going forward. We killed him, Vazquez, and Altidore by trying to win the CCL with them on the field.
If anything I would hope that with this experience, we are a lot smarter about our squad building and how we tackle the CCL next year, reducing the injury burden.
I'll bite on the Beitashour conversation. Great player. Doesn't fit the way MLS & TFC are moving towards - FBs who can waltz into the midfield. I prefer VDWs athleticism.. And Beits was targeted all game long for a reason. Our issue in defense is Mavingas absence & Delgados regression.
Offence good. Defence bad. Story of the season
Agreed....... plus our sh** goalkeeping.
In hindsight perhaps the biggest mistake, was signing Vazquez to a contract extension. He is our highest paid TAM player and hardly played this year. If his career is over does TFC get any cap relief with respect to his salary? I assume his contract is insured so the club could claim on the policy and be reimbursed. The dilema becomes if he doesn't wish to retire and has another season like this one, in and out of line-up, but mostly out, what can the club do?
Last edited by NK Toronto; 09-01-2018 at 10:04 PM.
It's insane to think that most of the starting XI from last season have played under or barely over 1000 minutes. Moor, Mavinga, and Altidore have only between 300-600 minutes of playing time this year. You need atleast 2000+ minutes in MLS.
One thing I noticed is the slow build up in play from defence to offense. Last season and CCL it was always seemingly to be quick counters leading to goals.
Bradley had a great game. His pressing reminded me of the Cup final last year.
Bonos regression to MLS average wouldn't be as noticeable if we had 2 decent CBs. Irwin is what we saw tonight.
Seba and Altidore put the team on their backs tonight. Jozy was pissed after the 4th goal.
Janson can leap & find space but needs to move the ball quicker.
And LAFC is fun to watch with that offence but their midfield is a seive.
I like Osorio. You miss the point. He is an average MLS player, having a good season. It has helped him greatly, learning from Seba and Vasquez. We all remember how woeful his shot was, for his entire career.
However, if he is our MVP, we are in deep trouble. Having a decent year on a team that can’t make the playoffs in MLS, is not deserving of the idolatry he receives.
Hopefully, he will not regress when Seba inevitably leaves the team.
Relax bud. I hung around for years watching Osorio kick the ball like he was blindfolded.
Is the league moving towards fullbacks who can "step into midfield"? Maybe. Is not having that sort of player holding other teams back? I'm going to say no. Harvey and Beitashour are far from modern, neither looked like an eyesore tonight and LAFC have been one of the best teams in MLS on the season. There's still no justification for an MLS team spending as much salary as we did on a RB.
My "fix-it" list for TFC, in order, would be something like this:
1. New starting CB or CB's. If Mavinga can't be healthy for the majority of the games we need two, not one. Moor is too slow at this stage and no point writing about the rest, it's been said too many times already.
2. More team speed in midfield. Our first choice midfield is too slow. The best teams are much faster at transitioning than TFC is and that's unlikely to change. We should be looking for a gritty, two-way mid with good speed and a lot of toughness in the tackle. Most likely replacing Delgado.
3. substitute striker. Maybe that's Jason, maybe it's not. TBD.
Everything else I would hope is salvageable. But the team needs to show more cohesion and needs to stay healthy. Next year is make or break for pretty much everyone not on a long term contract, coaching staff included.
Originally Posted by NK Toronto
I am convinced that Irwin is the worst keeper in TFC history............. and we have had some bad ones
Starting Irwin, more evidence of season being deliberately sabotaged.
how can you justify starting Irwin when this is a must win game.
youre the coach you know what he is
we had 4 missed chances to their one missed chance, so with bono we win
obviously I can't prove it but this season was scripted for TFC not to make the playoffs by all parties
Last edited by stevep; 09-01-2018 at 10:44 PM.
I agree with this mostly. I don't think Altidore overall had that good of a game, despite scoring twice. Victor shouldn't have been in the starting XI at all. 3 in the back with VDW, Zavs & Moor with Janson and Morrow on the wings would have been a lot better. Maybe even go back to the same XI from the MTL game. They had better pace that game.
I'd also rate him above Konopka, Kocic, and Bendik. It's clear he's lost some reflexes this year and is probably time to move on from him.
Though I think the playoffs are out of reach, I don't think Vanney is going to throw in the towel until the end of September. Hopefully he will rest/fix all the starters we'll need for CCL play.
Last edited by Initial B; 09-01-2018 at 10:48 PM.
embarrasing
man jozys good
i specifically watched Zavaletta tonight. i thought he played well. on the second goal not sure who's fault it was his or vdw's but I think zavalleta could have got a head on that ball.
i think zav's needs to work on his heading away of crosses into the box and he will be a very good player
Last edited by stevep; 09-01-2018 at 11:10 PM.
LAFCs defense is crud. We should have scored 5.
they'll have had a year to rest for CCL, they hardly played this year
So how have we ended up here? I believe we can now say it is not just the injuries that have hurt the team but they have been a factor. Some of what has happened this year started last year.
Defense has been a big problem. Moor was slowing down last year and lost half a step, however his ability to organize the back four was important. Mavinger however was able to cover moor’s lack of speed. Losing both exposed our lack of depth, but losing Mavinger was the real issue. I was hoping that Mavinger and Van de Weill would form the new CB pairing. That has not worked out and the addition of the new right back Auro has been a downgrade.
Goal tending last year with Bono was good, but his game has really fallen off. He is a below average goalie now. This did not start last year, rather it is a new issue. I do not think anyone saw this coming.
Midfield has also contributed to the defensive problem, as others have pointed out, we have a lack of speed in the midfield, and we are getting caught on the counter attack. As good as Bradley is he is not lightning fast and he may have also lost a step. Vasquez is also slow. Which makes us very vulnerable down the spine or middle. This also started to show up last year as we started to give up more goals near the end of the year. Fortunately we did not meet Atlanta in the playoffs last year and Seattle did not have great speed. We did not upgrade our speed enough in the off season.
Offense: Last year Giovinco’s scoring started to drop off near the end of the year. Although he is still critical for creating opportunities for others. Jozy carried us through the playoffs. The drop in scoring for Giovinco continued this year and got even worse when Josy was out for a while. He has just not finished like he has in the past. Vasquez was our key play maker and he unfortunately has been injured most of the year. As others pointed out he started to be injured last year and it has gotten worse this year because of the Champions league. We were unable to get a replacement for Vasquez in the off season.
We have the big three contracts coming up next year and do we renew all of them or not? If we do renew for how long. I do not think this is an easy answer.
Coaching: I do not think we can blame Vanney not should he be fired. The only issue you could raise is that he did not move the team into a more Defensive formation. However this is not our DNA.
So issues that started last year were accelerated by injuries, off season acquisitions were not upgrades, and the unexpected drop off in Bono‘s play has been an issue.
The off season will be very important for TFC and they cannot expect to return to their high levels of play just by getting healthy , changes need to be made and upgrades need to sourced
Last edited by SKB; 09-01-2018 at 11:30 PM.
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