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  1. #1
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    Default I think we should sell Giovinco!!!

    This may be controversial subject but am I the only one that feels that we need to get rid of Gio?

    - He doesn't look like he wants run anymore. He barely moves on the field.
    - Cash in on him while he still has value and sign a younger striker and cash to help pay for our high salaries
    - No longer attracting the defence and drawing multiple players to at least be getting assists.

    When he first came in he was all over the place and scoring from everywhere. Now it seems that he can only score from a free kick when nobody is on him.

    Thoughts?

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    I think Gio still has plenty of value, you just can't send him in as a lone striker and expect results. He needs a legitimate threat to split the defense.

    Sad that Ricketts doesn't seem to be that guy. Same with Hamilton. But there you go.

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    He will run hard until the chance to score seems to be getting away then he will start to walk suddenly even if the player on the other team has the ball right beside him. He just gives up. That annoys the hell out of me. He can't seem to beat most guys one on one these days and when he gets it many time he holds onto it too long then loses it and immediately starts walking instead of trying to win it back. Just seems like he says to himself "I will just wait for the next chance". Him taking PK's is like a 50/50 maybe. Free kicks he hits the wall or skies it most times this year. Nowhere near as dangerous as before aside from the one free kick against Tigres. Even his corner kicks have been too short or too long many times. Just seems like his head is not in it since the CCL. Even then he wanted to talk about his contract before CCL was even done. Having said that I still think he has some value still to the team when Jozy is playing with him because at least then he looks more like he gives a shit. I don't think he is that irreplaceable anymore though unlike other years and I am not sure where his head is at these days.

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    I’m getting more and more ok with the idea of trading him every week. But that doesn’t mean I want him to be traded. He absolutely plays his best football with Jozy. That’s pretty clear.

    That being said, maybe him wanting a new contract is playing with his head. But the lack of effort from him (and others) yesterday was clear to see.

    Heres hoping Jozy comes back and the pair start fireing them in.

    But if Bez wants to trade him, I’m confident in him getting the best deal/finding a suitable replacement.
    Away trips: 2014 - Seattle. 2015 - Montreal. 2016 - Montreal x2. Playoffs - NYCFC, Montreal. 2017 - Salt Lake, Philly, Ottawa, Montreal, Chicago, LA, Atlanta. ​Playoffs - NYRB, Columbus. 2018 ​- Monterrey, MX (Tigres) CCL, Montreal, Ottawa, Montreal. 2019 - ​Philly, Montreal, Seattle (MLS Cup final)

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    Can't see Seba anywhere else in MLS...maybe a move back to Europe.. mid to lower Serie A team.

    This losing season seems to have affected him and not having Jozy makes things worse.

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    I would only sell if we got a legitimate offer from a Mexican team.

    No one in Europe will pay his salary, but someone in Mexico will considering how he grabbed everyone's attention with our CCL run.

    I think the bigger question is when do you move on from Altidore, and if Bradley is tied to the hip with him. D

    Depending on we do in the back half this year we might see the last of these trio, which would be disappointing considering how close we were to getting a second MLS cup and CCL victory.

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    For me - I think that he is a flawed genius. He didn't come through when it mattered at the first MLS Cup Final - Played a big role in the MLS Cup last year among others..but then we had everyone playing at their potential...he did have a great run at the CONCACAF. His attitude this year after all the injuries hasn't been that of a leader. The problem with MLS is that you don't really recoup the transfer fees etc...it disappears into the murk that is the MLS. It opens up a DP spot and if we are willing to play the same kind of wages - then we should get a similar talent. Only consider letting him go if you already have an equal talent lined up (no that's not Rooney FFS). I'd consider punting Ajer, Delgado, and Ricketts at this juncture.

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    I don’t know what the future holds, I can understand it if he leaves, but if you are asking me.... anytime Seba and Jozy are on the field together, that’s the best team I have ever seen in MLS.

    I would keep both or neither, and I hope it can be both.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    This place is amazing.

    Just like last year with Drew Moor

    Up until the last two weeks there were people who were singing his praises, that he was reborn and maybe less hurt, and that he was dictating the flow on the attack so much more. Now we're talking about him as washed up and we want to sell?

    The gaps between games are too long for this crowd. Narrative spins out of control with no new data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    This place is amazing.

    Just like last year with Drew Moor

    Up until the last two weeks there were people who were singing his praises, that he was reborn and maybe less hurt, and that he was dictating the flow on the attack so much more. Now we're talking about him as washed up and we want to sell?

    The gaps between games are too long for this crowd. Narrative spins out of control with no new data.
    Are the same people that were singing his praises the same ones that are now saying he is struggling? If so you have a point. If not, what is your point? Everyone has their opinion. I know I have not wavered on mine. Some people are in the keep him camp, some are in the sell him camp, some people are in between. It is a valid discussion.

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    We have never made the playoffs without Giovinco on the roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    Are the same people that were singing his praises the same ones that are now saying he is struggling? If so you have a point. If not, what is your point? Everyone has their opinion. I know I have not wavered on mine. Some people are in the keep him camp, some are in the sell him camp, some people are in between. It is a valid discussion.
    I mean, not to get too meta, but I disagree.

    It's a valid discussion in that almost everything is, and it's fun to talk about. It's a ridiculous discussion in that it makes supporters on the whole look reactionary and impulsive; especially from a position of being largely misinformed.

    - He doesn't look like he wants run anymore. He barely moves on the field. (Subjective)
    - Cash in on him while he still has value and sign a younger striker and cash to help pay for our high salaries. (We don't know that we can)
    - No longer attracting the defence and drawing multiple players to at least be getting assists. (Jozy has been injured)

    I'm not trying to say people can't debate it, but I will debate its pointlessness. We don't have all the facts and I don't know how we can say in one sentence (he doesn't look like he wants to run anymore and trade him while he still has value, in another) those two things sound mutually exclusive.

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    SELL BRADLEY to LAFC..... get Ciman ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red4ever View Post
    I mean, not to get too meta, but I disagree.

    It's a valid discussion in that almost everything is, and it's fun to talk about. It's a ridiculous discussion in that it makes supporters on the whole look reactionary and impulsive; especially from a position of being largely misinformed.
    Yeah this was kind of my point.

    I'm not going to parse it out to find out individuals who took both positions. What I'm getting at is the general silence of those who might defend Gio. Silence is acquiesence or even tacit approval. So I think it's valid to paint everyone with the brush if there is a strongly stated thread taking this position, with no dissent.

    Frankly, the argument that Gio won't run comes down to two games this year *at most* and in particular the NYCFC game, where everyone looked to me like they were suffering onset of food poisoning or something. He's been busting his ass and creating goalscoring chances for all his teammates. He's tied for third in assists this year...

    I expect his goal totals to go up. He's had a tonne of Shots on Goal this year but hasn't been finding the gaps. This strikes me as an unsustainable pattern and we know his targetting is still strong when he has space - so once teams have to back off (when Jozy returns) his strike rate should improve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreaddogs View Post
    SELL BRADLEY to LAFC..... get Ciman ....

    Just the thought of this grosses me out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodooman View Post
    Just the thought of this grosses me out.
    and its impossible to do under current state of LAFC roster. not that they need Bradley anyways

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
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    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    This place is amazing.

    Just like last year with Drew Moor

    Up until the last two weeks there were people who were singing his praises, that he was reborn and maybe less hurt, and that he was dictating the flow on the attack so much more. Now we're talking about him as washed up and we want to sell?

    The gaps between games are too long for this crowd. Narrative spins out of control with no new data.
    This is why Toronto sports can't have nice things....as soon as our greats get into a slump, its time for the glue factory.....jeez.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC Tifoso View Post
    This is why Toronto sports can't have nice things....as soon as our greats get into a slump, its time for the glue factory.....jeez.....
    You are right!
    I cant believe this shit, and how fast they throw ppl under already. Typical maple leaf mentality, hard times blow it up! This team had half of the players injured and recovering. They played more games than any other team in the league and had more set backs than any other franchise in the city. But yet we can savage the year but selling our best player...idiots mentality. Sell Seba! trade DeRozan, dont sign Donaldson! ....no wonder the city lacks Champions (except us right!) ...it may be the last one we get if management think like this guys here!!! smh! "you never go full retard..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    Yeah this was kind of my point.


    I'm not going to parse it out to find out individuals who took both positions. What I'm getting at is the general silence of those who might defend Gio. Silence is acquiesence or even tacit approval. So I think it's valid to paint everyone with the brush if there is a strongly stated thread taking this position, with no dissent.


    Frankly, the argument that Gio won't run comes down to two games this year *at most* and in particular the NYCFC game, where everyone looked to me like they were suffering onset of food poisoning or something. He's been busting his ass and creating goalscoring chances for all his teammates. He's tied for third in assists this year...


    I expect his goal totals to go up. He's had a tonne of Shots on Goal this year but hasn't been finding the gaps. This strikes me as an unsustainable pattern and we know his targetting is still strong when he has space - so once teams have to back off (when Jozy returns) his strike rate should improve.
    Felt bad, after reading this post; I've somewhat drifted away from the discussions, but I do think it important to agree with you, here.


    I think there are a combination of factors affecting Seba's game, but there's enough there to suggest he'll come good.


    I'd be remiss not to say that I have, in fairness, thought about if he could transition into a Vasquez sort of contract, freeing up a DP slot… but, I think it's always a tricky area when you ask someone to take a (massive) pay-cut—can either go really well, with others being inspired by his commitment, or it can leave the player feeling unsettled (i.e. needs to be "the man," for mojo-related reasons). If we go that route, the DP player coming in has to really command that sort of respect, for me.


    Either way, I feel like it's too early for all that; much will depend on what he has to give when Jozy returns, until which point we can't possibly have enough information to gauge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woolly View Post
    I think Gio still has plenty of value, you just can't send him in as a lone striker and expect results. He needs a legitimate threat to split the defense.

    Sad that Ricketts doesn't seem to be that guy. Same with Hamilton. But there you go.

    I still think Hamilton would do better than Ricketts

    Give him a solid 2-3 games. But perhaps they dont want to kill his confidence, he scored a great one with TFC2

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    I think there is a discussion to be had about keeping Seba, or Bradley or Altidore.

    But I think the better discussion is in terms of priorities. We are currently looking at at least 3 key players that need replacing: Moor will likely never be the same after his injury and is probably 50/50 for the rest of the season. Aketxe has not gelled with the team and is not an upgrade over Osario, who can be re-signed for less that Aketxe makes. And Ricketts seems to have lost interest knowing that he will never crack the starting role, so we need a solid backup sticker (Jhams is not it, nor now at least)

    Once the FO deals we more pressing issues we can talk about which of our DP's might need to be replaced.

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    For those who say that he needs Jozy as a strike partner, lets remember that Jozy was injured a lot when seba first came to the team and he was carrying the TFC squad in 2015.

    I just want him to be as lethal and hungry as he was when he first joined TFC. If he will not get back to that point, then cut his salary, bring in a young 23 year old wonder kid so the team can have a future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strictlye View Post
    For those who say that he needs Jozy as a strike partner, lets remember that Jozy was injured a lot when seba first came to the team and he was carrying the TFC squad in 2015.

    I just want him to be as lethal and hungry as he was when he first joined TFC. If he will not get back to that point, then cut his salary, bring in a young 23 year old wonder kid so the team can have a future.
    Giovinco got older and slowed down a bit. MLS figured him out. After 2-3 seasons, it was bound to happen. It's not just matter of hunger

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
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    With a heavy heart, i acknowledge his shelf life has expired. Arrivederci! Tempo per te di andare. Grazie. Ciao.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    This place is amazing.

    Just like last year with Drew Moor

    Up until the last two weeks there were people who were singing his praises, that he was reborn and maybe less hurt, and that he was dictating the flow on the attack so much more. Now we're talking about him as washed up and we want to sell?

    The gaps between games are too long for this crowd. Narrative spins out of control with no new data.

    I don't care if he has lost a gear, he's a smart, dangerous player. Sometimes you accommodate the changes in a player's toolbag to keep his upside, which is huge with Giovinco. We want more out of him? Give the guy the new contract he wants. Does he really strike anyone here as an amotivated, 'only in it til I gets paid' player? No fucking way. If the club is loyal to him, he'll continue to have value. He's 30, not 36.

    Plus, what kind of legacy do we want as a club? A place that casts off its legends when they're near the end of their career? This is MLS. If we can't accomodate a guy with his skill package even as he ages, there's something tactically wrong with us.

    We made one big mistake this summer, which was Aketxe, who does not appear to have the discipline for this level but keeps being 'worked in' because Bez or Vanney hasnt' figured out yet that, like Cooper, he won't make the smart choices.

    That spot could've gone to a strong, fast striker who can also play wide if necessary, someone with the personality to keep the room upbeat when guys like Moore and Jozy are out. In terms of personality, our other top guys are all ruthless competitors. But there's no one pumping them up; that's obvious from their increasing lethargy.

  26. #26
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    Just a reminder that Giovinco is the coaches choice for the all star team.

    Giovinco needs to play alongside good players. Missing Jozy and VV is huge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I don't care if he has lost a gear, he's a smart, dangerous player. Sometimes you accommodate the changes in a player's toolbag to keep his upside, which is huge with Giovinco. We want more out of him? Give the guy the new contract he wants. Does he really strike anyone here as an amotivated, 'only in it til I gets paid' player? No fucking way. If the club is loyal to him, he'll continue to have value. He's 30, not 36.

    Plus, what kind of legacy do we want as a club? A place that casts off its legends when they're near the end of their career? This is MLS. If we can't accomodate a guy with his skill package even as he ages, there's something tactically wrong with us.

    We made one big mistake this summer, which was Aketxe, who does not appear to have the discipline for this level but keeps being 'worked in' because Bez or Vanney hasnt' figured out yet that, like Cooper, he won't make the smart choices.

    That spot could've gone to a strong, fast striker who can also play wide if necessary, someone with the personality to keep the room upbeat when guys like Moore and Jozy are out. In terms of personality, our other top guys are all ruthless competitors. But there's no one pumping them up; that's obvious from their increasing lethargy.
    Good stuff. This club doesnt seem to know how to foster the potential of legends and legacies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strictlye View Post
    For those who say that he needs Jozy as a strike partner, lets remember that Jozy was injured a lot when seba first came to the team and he was carrying the TFC squad in 2015.

    I just want him to be as lethal and hungry as he was when he first joined TFC. If he will not get back to that point, then cut his salary, bring in a young 23 year old wonder kid so the team can have a future.

    Haven't you noticed ? They tend to go to Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I don't care if he has lost a gear, he's a smart, dangerous player. Sometimes you accommodate the changes in a player's toolbag to keep his upside, which is huge with Giovinco. We want more out of him? Give the guy the new contract he wants. Does he really strike anyone here as an amotivated, 'only in it til I gets paid' player? No fucking way. If the club is loyal to him, he'll continue to have value. He's 30, not 36.

    Plus, what kind of legacy do we want as a club? A place that casts off its legends when they're near the end of their career? This is MLS. If we can't accomodate a guy with his skill package even as he ages, there's something tactically wrong with us.

    We made one big mistake this summer, which was Aketxe, who does not appear to have the discipline for this level but keeps being 'worked in' because Bez or Vanney hasnt' figured out yet that, like Cooper, he won't make the smart choices.

    That spot could've gone to a strong, fast striker who can also play wide if necessary, someone with the personality to keep the room upbeat when guys like Moore and Jozy are out. In terms of personality, our other top guys are all ruthless competitors. But there's no one pumping them up; that's obvious from their increasing lethargy.
    Sorry, but players do not get re-upped on contracts worth millions upon millions of dollars in the hope that ‘loyalty will be rewarded’. Ridiculous notion.

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    I personally don't think he's ready for the scrap heap just yet but some of the viewpoints on here are naive to the extreme.You don't keep a player simply because how great he has been for you on the past. Ask any United fans how that worked out with Rooney. Record goal scorer and all that but they kept him 4-5 yrs past his sell by date. The great players, they adapt. Giggs went from a flying winger to a central midfielder, Paul scholes went from a goal scoring midfielder to a deep lying play maker as they aged. Even Ronaldo, is more a striker than the winger he was when he first started. Giovinco seems to have lost that little burst of pace over the first few yards but he's still such a good player that you feel he can adapt his game. The team is in a slump right now and has been for a while, so probably wrong to just pick on him.Some of the recent petulance he has shown that people are highlighting, in fairness he always did that. Maybe just now because he's not getting the goals he historically scored it is more evident. Forget about loyalty in a results driven business, you're not providing the performances, you are out. See Keano at Utd, once he started becoming disruptive he was gone. Probably Utd's greatest ever captain, and once he was deemed surplus to requirements through performances and off pitch rants, he was let go. Sounds cruel and it is but it has to be done. Unlike other leagues, it's hard to get by when your DP's are either injured or out of form. I think he's still good enough to play his way out of it, but to think if he can't that we'd still keep him out of some sort of loyalty, no not for me.

 

 

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