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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Right now Concacaf has 3 spots out of the 32 spots in the world cup. The latest proposal I heard is that with 48 teams concacaf would have 6 spots. With this change I don't see any reason why Canada, the US and Mexico would not get automatic spots in 2026. It still leaves the same 3 spots we currently have for other concacaf teams to get. And they would not be fighting Mexico and the US for the 3 spots. (plus there is a potential for a 7th spot through a play in game).

    I like the suggested structure of 16 groups of 3 with the top two teams in each group moving on to one game elimination rounds. The tournament would take the same length of time.

    Apparently, the video reel that was played for the United Bid heavily featured BMO when referencing Canada. How can Toronto not end up getting at least a couple of the 10 games to be played in Canada?
    CONCACAF has 3.5 spots right now

  2. #62
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    43k for the SPAIN VS RONALDO game oh boy toronto not going to get any games ...paranoia on this site lol

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    When you see a Uruguay-Egypt game that drew 27K or a Spain-Portugal game that drew 43K: that's 50,000 tickets less than they could have sold at a big venue in the USA (or England or similar).

    Let's say the average is 25,000 more a game in bigger stadiums (not every game is as attractive as those two)....

    Call it $200 a ticket, that's $5M a game. There are 64 games (there will be 80 games in 2026). All the later stage games will be in big venues, so say 40 of those games are candidates for decisions, where you have a choice between a big or small venue.

    That's $200 million. You may not think they should care about that, they get billions from TV, but I think they will care. This World Cup bid was all about max dollars everywhere, on every front.

    Of course Toronto may get games. Someone up here has to, and the difference between the Big O or Edmonton and an expanded BMO is only 15,000-20,000 seats. So the cost is only, call it, $2.5M a game at BMO. But it's not certain that we will, and I think it's more uncertain than people think.

    If I am John Tory, I'd rather find a way to somehow cut a check to FIFA for $10M for 4 games, than do something stupid on the stadium front.

    It's not like anyone is going to rise up at the injustice if Canada gets cut back, or if Toronto is somehow left out. Quite the contrary, we are rather vulnerable...
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4274994/m...sts-criticism/
    Last edited by ensco; 06-15-2018 at 05:29 PM.
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  4. #64
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    Ur reaching if you are using Maradona.

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    Maradona is a washed up ex player/coach and coke head. He spews nothing but pure drivel. Next.

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    The point stands, whether Maradona is influential or representative doesn’t really matter. A lot of people think the same thing.

    As a for instance, England are pretty bitter about this - the idea that England hasn’t hosted in 60 years, but North America gets it for the 4th time since, has them upset

    Anyway I will drop this soon - nobody wants to hear it - it'll be what it'll be. It's backroom stuff we won’t have visibility on.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Maradona is a washed up ex player/coach and coke head. He spews nothing but pure drivel. Next.
    No kidding ... every single quote in that article is nonsense.

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    Ok I can’t believe no one has brought this up , but I think BMO does not get expanded instead a new 80000 seat stadium gets built and is used for an NFL expansion team after the 2026 World Cup, what a perfect opportunity to build a stadium for the NFL now that we are getting the 2026 World Cup. MLSE bought the Argos for a reason to show that they were saving the Toronto CFL team which in the end gives them an in on an NFL team, this is not over watch for a revamped Toronto 2026 stadium resolution coming soon.

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    And who will own this NFL team?

    MLSE is ineligible under the NFL's ownership rules.

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    The only possible games in Toronto will minnow teams like New Zealand and say Senegal...where a 45k stadium would make sense. They can't play any decent match ups in a tiny stadium.

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    like the minnow game today between spain and port they had 43k.the rumour is that tor,la mex city will get the opening games all on the same day,canada most likely will play in that game in toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    The only possible games in Toronto will minnow teams like New Zealand and say Senegal...where a 45k stadium would make sense. They can't play any decent match ups in a tiny stadium.
    Stadiums are set prior to the group stage draw. Matches are not put in stadiums because they are expected to draw smaller crowds.

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    The one thing that no one has mentioned is the size and wealth of the Toronto market compared to Montreal and Edmonton. The fact of the matter is that Toronto is the largest and wealthiest market in Canada, as well as the financial and media capital with the most corporate head offices and the potential for corporate sponsorship. The reason Toronto is the only city in Canada to have both an NBA and MLB team is it is the only city which can support these teams. Montreal didn't support the Expos which is why they left town, and the support for the Impact is poor compared to the crowds TFC gets. You could charge triple the ticket prices for World Cup games in Toronto and still sell more seats (and generate more revenue) than in Montreal. The corporate sponsorship for stadium suite sales is in Toronto, not Montreal. Toronto is now the 4th largest city in North America, behind only Mexico City, New York and LA, and the GTA will continue to exhibit significant population growth given that Canada accepts approx 249,000 immigrants per year. Toronto has the population base, the fan base, and the corporate base. There is absolutely no way that World Cup games won't be held in Toronto.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 06-15-2018 at 10:04 PM.

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    I think we'll see a teardown and rebuild of the west stand. Then of course 2 huge temp grandstand in each end.
    There will be a total security lockdown of the CNE grounds, so they can go as far back as the food building.
    Thing is, BMO needs a major overhaul for a world event. We have next to no luxury boxes, even the press box is tiny.
    Look at our stadium compared to the NFL facilities in Dallas, NYC (Jersey lol), new ones in LA, maybe even Vegas!
    BMO is perfect for TFC and the MLS, but as of today any of the Canadian facilities look minor league compared to the NFL options.
    I can only imagine the overhaul the Big O will require.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    When you see a Uruguay-Egypt game that drew 27K or a Spain-Portugal game that drew 43K: that's 50,000 tickets less than they could have sold at a big venue in the USA (or England or similar).

    Let's say the average is 25,000 more a game in bigger stadiums (not every game is as attractive as those two)....

    Call it $200 a ticket, that's $5M a game. There are 64 games (there will be 80 games in 2026). All the later stage games will be in big venues, so say 40 of those games are candidates for decisions, where you have a choice between a big or small venue.

    That's $200 million. You may not think they should care about that, they get billions from TV, but I think they will care. This World Cup bid was all about max dollars everywhere, on every front.

    Of course Toronto may get games. Someone up here has to, and the difference between the Big O or Edmonton and an expanded BMO is only 15,000-20,000 seats. So the cost is only, call it, $2.5M a game at BMO. But it's not certain that we will, and I think it's more uncertain than people think.

    If I am John Tory, I'd rather find a way to somehow cut a check to FIFA for $10M for 4 games, than do something stupid on the stadium front.

    It's not like anyone is going to rise up at the injustice if Canada gets cut back, or if Toronto is somehow left out. Quite the contrary, we are rather vulnerable...
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4274994/m...sts-criticism/
    The Spain vs Ronaldo game was not a sellout. So said the commentators from England who do the game on radio for 1050AM. You assumed the 50k extra tickets would be sold, when today's smaller venue did not, and everone would consider that game today a premium group stage game..
    What's to say it sells 85k tickets in an American Stadium?
    On another point, you could have that game today at BMO charge $1000 for the cheapest tickets and every Da Silva, Silva, D'Souza and Almeida friend I have would have taken out lines of credit if need be to have been there.
    I think it comes down to the teams playing, and what city paticular teams are playing in that will need to be the strategic decision. Ultimately I think Toronto is a safe bet for almost all 48 teams because people will want to go to a World Cuo game to say they went at least once, assuming it is priced a bit lower for Morocco vs Vietnam let's say.
    Portugal, Italy, Germany, England, Canada plays in Toronto you can charge $1,000 to $5,000 plus and easliy sell out in minutes.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    The one thing that no one has mentioned is the size and wealth of the Toronto market compared to Montreal and Edmonton. The fact of the matter is that Toronto is the largest and wealthiest market in Canada, as well as the financial and media capital with the most corporate head offices and the potential for corporate sponsorship. The reason Toronto is the only city in Canada to have both an NBA and MLB team is it is the only city which can support these teams. Montreal didn't support the Expos which is why they left town, and the support for the Impact is poor compared to the crowds TFC gets. You could charge triple the ticket prices for World Cup games in Toronto and still sell more seats (and generate more revenue) than in Montreal. The corporate sponsorship for stadium suite sales is in Toronto, not Montreal. Toronto is now the 4th largest city in North America, behind only Mexico City, New York and LA, and the GTA will continue to exhibit significant population growth given that Canada accepts approx 249,000 immigrants per year. Toronto has the population base, the fan base, and the corporate base. There is absolutely no way that World Cup games won't be held in Toronto.
    If it is so big an wealthy then it should build a World Cup class stadium. If Toronto ever gets the Olympics it will be the 4th Canadian city to host it... Toronto's infrastructure is very poor and showing no signs of being rectified with the DF era about to unfold. If a Canadian city is dropped it will be Toronto. Montreal and Edmonton will have no trouble filling the games - having a French speaking host city will be very attractive. Corporate sponsors are a Global level with FIFA - companies in host cities don't matter. Also remember that this is a US hosted event with a few game outsourced to the poor weak neighbours.

    Further to that the Canadian National team will want a home base...Edmonton is the better home base to get 75k Canadian fans out and not more away supporters.
    Last edited by Hamilton_Red; 06-16-2018 at 11:17 AM.

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    Are prices the same across the board or will it vary per city? If they vary, Toronto can charge a lot more tickets for than either MON/EDM. Even with a smaller stadium, TOR still would generate more revenue on a per game basis than either of those 2 cities because they could charge a lot more for tickets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    Are prices the same across the board or will it vary per city? If they vary, Toronto can charge a lot more tickets for than either MON/EDM. Even with a smaller stadium, TOR still would generate more revenue on a per game basis than either of those 2 cities because they could charge a lot more for tickets.
    I think this is true, especially for Edmonton (I highly doubt games are going there either, fwiw)

    I kind of tried to reflect that in the math by saying that the average attendance between BMO and a US marginal choice ( say, Denver) was 25K but I think it’s bigger.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccMan2 View Post
    Ok I can’t believe no one has brought this up , but I think BMO does not get expanded instead a new 80000 seat stadium gets built and is used for an NFL expansion team after the 2026 World Cup, what a perfect opportunity to build a stadium for the NFL now that we are getting the 2026 World Cup. MLSE bought the Argos for a reason to show that they were saving the Toronto CFL team which in the end gives them an in on an NFL team, this is not over watch for a revamped Toronto 2026 stadium resolution coming soon.

    Ya you're the first in this thread but this has been talked about for a couple years now.
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    I love the wild speculation going on since Bill Manning has already stated that they will be using temporary seat to increase capacity, not permanent seats (unless adding some more seating for part of it makes sense from a TFC perspective). That's it. No massive seat additions, no new stadium.

    In addition to Manning stating that, it's what the FIFA bid book shows.

    Improvements will be needed in some areas like the locker facilities, but that's it.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 06-16-2018 at 03:08 PM.

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    An interesting rundown of the decision to come from Goff.

    Goff seems to sorta kinda say Canada is getting cut from 3 to 2 cities, and stopping there. But he is coy about it. You have to back into it by doing the math he puts forward. He strongly sees all three Mexican stadiums as sure things.

    Clustering matters, so Edmonton would almost certainly be odd man out. But Chicago and Vancouver could come back into the mix. The bid book isn’t scripture. Vancouver is probably still a threat to TO, maybe the threat. I wonder how many of the Asian FIFA plutocrats have condos in Vancouver.

    The part about “clustering, but not too much clustering” is interesting, not sure what it means for Toronto. Does that mean we want Chicago back in? Sounds like they don’t want to overdo the northeast corridor, which both Toronto and Montreal are in. How badly do they want Seattle, and can they make Seattle work without Vancouver?

    The part about Boston being in because of Kraft/Trump is not great. That stadium isn’t that big and has horrible access (there are 4 hour traffic jams in and out of Foxborough), I would have thought it might lose on the merits.

    The altitude criteria is great. Go Guadalajara. Sorry Denver.

    Overall I feel a little better about things based on this analysis. He has put into long shot status three big, beautiful, new stadiums.

    There is definitely a power dynamic within the United bid, which he is discussing in calling all three Mexican stadiums automatic, and that dynamic is what worries me. But Goff is as wired as anyone, and he's not signalling that the US will try to roll more than one of the Canadian stadiums in favour of one of the marginal US ones like Orlando and Denver.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e7921242d5ca
    Last edited by ensco; 06-16-2018 at 06:36 PM.
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    ^ Thanks for posting that article. The politics is very interesting. Looks like for sure Edmonton will be out. I’d be angry as fuck though if I lived in Edmonton and they got dropped and Vancouver added...

    I still fee confident Toronto gets games and probably the majority of Canadian ones. Our multinational culture is too big a positive story not to play up. I think BMO is a bit of a problem though. Big decisions will have to be made about how to get it up to 45,000 capacity.

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    Here’s a thought based on no facts, just what I think would be cool:

    Build a new 50,000 seat soccer specific stadium in the eastern Portlands off Cherry Street. Like a well thought out, architecturally forward stadium (like Red Bull Arena or Minnesota’s new ground, but bigger). TFC plays there full time after, Argos get BMO.

    Location is perfect: you are at the confluence of the DVP and Gardiner. There will be a GO/Smart Track station 5-10 minutes walk away at Broadview and Eastern by 2021/22. Expedite the Relief Line and there will be two subway stations within walking distance too. Queens Quay east is already under big redevelopment plans. The Sidewalk Labs district is walking distance. The new Lever corporate development is walking distance.

    Let’s do it!

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    The thing we are skipping over is Qatar 2022... this is still bound to be an epic shit show. It really could cause FIFA some big problems that have some consequences for 2026. I suppose it would be easy to have an emergency relocation to the UK or Germany. I also could also seeing Canada politically abandoning the cooperation with the US if Trump get's re-elected or something crazy like that. The US has Mexican children in detention camps at the border - separated from their parents, if that doesn't get fixed immediately there is going to be an escalating rift of epic proportions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    The only possible games in Toronto will minnow teams like New Zealand and say Senegal...where a 45k stadium would make sense. They can't play any decent match ups in a tiny stadium.
    The World Cup schedule is done before the draw, so the draw determines both which groups the teams are in and which stadiums they play in.

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    Edmonton bid isn't in good shape because Alberta government say no to funding World cup (they trying to get 2026 Winter Olympics for Calgary) and FIFA officials stated Edmonton's airport doesn't reach FIFA requirements since there aren't many direct flights for fans coming from outside North America.

    Edmonton is odd city out.

    As for Toronto, only issue is stadium capacity which isn't biggest issue in the world. That can be fixed easily with some government funding. Good news is Toronto got political support from all levels in government.

    Montreal needs to rebuild Olympic stadium which is going to cost about $500 million at least. Not sure Quebec government going to help cover the cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Edmonton bid isn't in good shape because Alberta government say no to funding World cup (they trying to get 2026 Winter Olympics for Calgary) and FIFA officials stated Edmonton's airport doesn't reach FIFA requirements since there aren't many direct flights for fans coming from outside North America.

    Edmonton is odd city out.

    As for Toronto, only issue is stadium capacity which isn't biggest issue in the world. That can be fixed easily with some government funding. Good news is Toronto got political support from all levels in government.

    Montreal needs to rebuild Olympic stadium which is going to cost about $500 million at least. Not sure Quebec government going to help cover the cost.
    They already committed money before the bid was awarded.

    In November, Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard announced the government would spend at least $200 million on a new roof for the Big O
    “Before even giving our official candidacy of the city of Montreal (for the World Cup as part of the United 2026 bid) the (Olympic Installations Board) and the provincial government already said that they were going to invest the money in the retractable roof,” Filato said. “So it’s great news to hold the FIFA World Cup, but it’s already money that was going to be invested and I think that’s important. … We adopted an action plan to see how we can attract large sporting events as well. So it’s a great investment for this specific event and it’s a great investment in general.”
    They've committed the money for the roof and there is an ongoing maintenance and renovation budget for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Build a new 50,000 seat soccer specific stadium in the eastern Portlands off Cherry Street. Like a well thought out, architecturally forward stadium (like Red Bull Arena or Minnesota’s new ground, but bigger). TFC plays there full time after, Argos get BMO.

    Location is perfect: you are at the confluence of the DVP and Gardiner. There will be a GO/Smart Track station 5-10 minutes walk away at Broadview and Eastern by 2021/22. Expedite the Relief Line and there will be two subway stations within walking distance too. Queens Quay east is already under big redevelopment plans. The Sidewalk Labs district is walking distance. The new Lever corporate development is walking distance.

    Let’s do it!
    Games would have to end by 10pm and everyone cleared out to abide by the noise bylaw for the Islands. No 8PM start times, would have to start earlier. Also, no one really knows what's happening with the GO/SmartTrack program now that Doug Ford is in. Also, I work in that area, it's a shithole. Air quality is poor with the Ashbridges Bay treatment plant nearby and all the concrete/aggrate companies throwing dust in the air (I have a layer of dust on my car after 8 hour workday) Would take 8 years of improvements just to get it up to snuff - no doubt those changes would be good for Toronto though - improving the waterfront.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 06-18-2018 at 08:12 AM.
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    Saskatchewan and Winnipeg actually have the best, newest stadiums to host a WC match. Then probably BC place. Even Tim Hortons Field has better seating than BMO in the upper tiers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BelfastBoy View Post
    Saskatchewan and Winnipeg actually have the best, newest stadiums to host a WC match. Then probably BC place. Even Tim Hortons Field has better seating than BMO in the upper tiers.
    They must have amazing seating then because I enjoy sitting in the up tiers minus the north and south ends of the west stands. I almost exclusively buy seats up there now.

 

 

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