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  1. #31
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    The bid book is now something for wrapping dead fish in. They have to play games in Canada, that’s the only sure thing.

    Follow the money. Why would FIFA accept any stadium at 40K if they can replace it with a stadium seating 80K?

    I think FIFA will say to John Tory - Expand to 60K or we go to Montreal only. I would say the same about El Volcan, it has a high probability of getting dropped.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    If your not going to have a game in Toronto then what's the point? Not sound like a self centrerd Torontonian, but you might as well not have it in Canada at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    If your not going to have a game in Toronto then what's the point? Not sound like a self centrerd Torontonian, but you might as well not have it in Canada at all.
    This is FIFA’s game. They use their leverage to force people to build big stadiums. It’s their core business model. It’s not corrupt either.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Good luck getting money to expand the stadium that size for Toronto. You think someone like Doug Ford is just going to hand over a blank check for such a project? (unless the possibility exist of putting an NFL team there, which would give him a hard on for sure)

    Well, stadium size aside, I'm just looking forward to see Canada play in another World Cup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcoe15 View Post
    Good luck getting money to expand the stadium that size for Toronto. You think someone like Doug Ford is just going to hand over a blank check for such a project? (unless the possibility exist of putting an NFL team there, which would give him a hard on for sure)k

    Well, stadium size aside, I'm just looking forward to see Canada play in another World Cup.
    Ding ding ding.

    I predict the over under of serious linkage of the World Cup to an NFL team coming here is about 30 days.

    FIFA and the NFL play the same game.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    There will be 10 games in Canada & 10 in Mexico - guaranteed. A lot of the votes they got today was to give places like Oceania & in Europe the chance to support a multi-country World Cup.

    In Canada, only 3 cities have put in for games - Vancouver might change their mind but our position in the Eastern time zone is a bonus.

    As for expansion - there's money in the World Cup to be made - the feds & the province will put in the money.

    As for the NFL - having read the behind the scenes of the owners meeting getting the LA Raiders & Rams together - there is no freaking way anybody in Canada is getting a team.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 06-13-2018 at 07:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    Right now Concacaf has 3 spots out of the 32 spots in the world cup. The latest proposal I heard is that with 48 teams concacaf would have 6 spots. With this change I don't see any reason why Canada, the US and Mexico would not get automatic spots in 2026. It still leaves the same 3 spots we currently have for other concacaf teams to get. And they would not be fighting Mexico and the US for the 3 spots. (plus there is a potential for a 7th spot through a play in game).
    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ...Qualification: up to Concacaf. There is NO WAY we will get in automatically...
    With our lowly world rankings in recent years, it's difficult to argue that Canada would deserve to automatically be there on merit. Why would all those other CONCACAF nations be happy to let Canada undeservedly get into the tournament automatically and reduce the number of available CONCACAF qualifiers by one?
    There is no precedent for a World Cup hosted by three nations. As I asked on the V's board, what if, many years down the road, there was a united bid to host from a group of five Caribbean or Central American nations? Do you think Canada would like the idea of allowing all of them to get in automatically?
    Maybe automatic qualification for host nations could involve being required to be at some minimal level in FIFA rankings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchy81 View Post
    I wonder if their plans for safe standing in the south will be put on hold until after 2026 now.
    I kind of doubt it.
    if someone is paying like $500 CDN for a ticket...they'll probably want somewhere to place their bum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heepster View Post
    With our lowly world rankings in recent years, it's difficult to argue that Canada would deserve to automatically be there on merit. Why would all those other CONCACAF nations be happy to let Canada undeservedly get into the tournament automatically and reduce the number of available CONCACAF qualifiers by one?
    There is no precedent for a World Cup hosted by three nations. As I asked on the V's board, what if, many years down the road, there was a united bid to host from a group of five Caribbean or Central American nations? Do you think Canada would like the idea of allowing all of them to get in automatically?
    Maybe automatic qualification for host nations could involve being required to be at some minimal level in FIFA rankings.
    If Canada has to qualify, then US and Mexico should also have to qualify.

    If what we have seen is true, and Concacaf is going from 3.5 spots to 6.5 in 2026, it's really a wash for the other nations - and with Mexico out of the running it actually opens another spot for one of the others.

    Ultimately, we await our fate as Fifa has to decide what it wants to do. This is going to be a long 8 years...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heepster View Post
    With our lowly world rankings in recent years, it's difficult to argue that Canada would deserve to automatically be there on merit. Why would all those other CONCACAF nations be happy to let Canada undeservedly get into the tournament automatically and reduce the number of available CONCACAF qualifiers by one?
    There is no precedent for a World Cup hosted by three nations. As I asked on the V's board, what if, many years down the road, there was a united bid to host from a group of five Caribbean or Central American nations? Do you think Canada would like the idea of allowing all of them to get in automatically?
    Maybe automatic qualification for host nations could involve being required to be at some minimal level in FIFA rankings.
    Japan and South Korea jointly hosted the 2002. That was a 32 team world cup and both host nations received automatic qualification, although both those nations in recent yrs tend to qualify anyway. 2026 will be a 48 team world cup, so it will be diluted quality wise. Euro 2020 is being held in 12 different cities across europe with no automatic qualification for the countries staging it. Re merit, good point as teams like Qatar will get automatic qualification for 2022 world cup. Typically in the past, the nations holding world cups tend to qualify, maybe south africa in 2010 being the exception. Maybe something to be looked at...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The bid book is now something for wrapping dead fish in. They have to play games in Canada, that’s the only sure thing.

    Follow the money. Why would FIFA accept any stadium at 40K if they can replace it with a stadium seating 80K?

    I think FIFA will say to John Tory - Expand to 60K or we go to Montreal only. I would say the same about El Volcan, it has a high probability of getting dropped.
    This ^^^^

    C'mon people, it's FIFA. Some comments here reflect the thinking that FIFA is trying to grow the game and promote the sport.
    Nope. Job #1 is MONEY
    At this point I'd look for Montreal and Edmonton to be the front runners for the games. Toronto at 40k might get 1 early round game.
    Montreal will come up with Fed money to throw in a grass surface and renovate the stadium. It'll be part of an election campaign to garner the QC votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The bid book is now something for wrapping dead fish in. They have to play games in Canada, that’s the only sure thing.

    Follow the money. Why would FIFA accept any stadium at 40K if they can replace it with a stadium seating 80K?

    I think FIFA will say to John Tory - Expand to 60K or we go to Montreal only. I would say the same about El Volcan, it has a high probability of getting dropped.
    It's easy. There are always games that won't get much of a following and won't need large stadiums.

    Togo vs Myanmar probably wouldn't bring in the masses.

    Not every stadium needs to be 80k.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmonyoureds View Post
    This ^^^^

    C'mon people, it's FIFA. Some comments here reflect the thinking that FIFA is trying to grow the game and promote the sport.
    Nope. Job #1 is MONEY
    At this point I'd look for Montreal and Edmonton to be the front runners for the games. Toronto at 40k might get 1 early round game.
    Montreal will come up with Fed money to throw in a grass surface and renovate the stadium. It'll be part of an election campaign to garner the QC votes.
    The Quebec government is putting $200 million towards another retractable roof for the Big Owe (which will be 50 years old by 2026). More money will come from the city and feds.
    http://montrealgazette.com/sports/so...2026-world-cup

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    looks like LA ,TOR ,MEX CITY will get the opening game??

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfk View Post
    The Quebec government is putting $200 million towards another retractable roof for the Big Owe (which will be 50 years old by 2026). More money will come from the city and feds.
    http://montrealgazette.com/sports/so...2026-world-cup
    There is a wicked wicked part of me that almost hopes a Canada match gets played in the big O- simply for the satisfaction of seeing Montreal supporters in RED!

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    People in here are thinking the older FIFA who's priority was getting the executive council tons of money. Those executive council guys have been stripped of most of their power. It all lies now with the mass of individual country associations who have been promised $ from Infantino - he's been quite open about the $ flowing to the associations instead of just to FIFA. Which is why you saw a huge swath of countries vote as Blocs for the "United" bid.

    Today, CONMEBOL started the campaign for a joint Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay bid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urugua..._World_Cup_bid


    You think FIFA is going to screw with the joint bid approach when they know it makes them more money? Nah.....they might add Vancouver but even then Toronto gets at least 2 games out of 10.

    Its a 48 team competition now too, so smaller stadia in the first round are OK.

    Frankly, I think we can count on a North American hosted event every 24 years now. Who's up for 2050?
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 06-14-2018 at 11:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is FIFA’s game. They use their leverage to force people to build big stadiums. It’s their core business model. It’s not corrupt either.
    World Cup Venues

    Kaliningrad Stadium 31,484 for 2018 World Cup
    Central Stadium 35,000 for 2018 World Cup
    Mordovia Arena 40,441 for 2018 World Cup
    Nizhny Novgorod Stadium 41,042 for 2018 World Cup
    Volgograd Arena 40,479 for 2018 World Cup
    Rostov Arena 40,709 for 2018 World Cup
    Kazan Arena 41,338 for 2018 World Cup
    Cosmos Arena 40,882 for 2018 World Cup
    Fisht Olympic Stadium 43,480 for 2018 World Cup
    Otkritie Arena 41,465 for 2018 World Cup

    Only two of Russia's Venues are over 45k in seating.

    Khalifa International Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Qatar Foundation Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Ras Abu Aboud Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Al Thumama Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Al Wakrah Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Ahmed Bin Ali Stadium 44,740 for 2022 World Cup

    Only two of Qatar's Venues will be over 45k in seating.

    I honestly don't think FIFA would care if we just said screw it we'll raise it to 36k only. There are so many large stadiums in the Bid FIFA is seeing dollar signs already they won't worry about the Venue size of BMO or the smaller Mexican Stadiums. If what you were concerned about were valid than I'm sure Russia wouldn't be allowed to be using 2 stadiums under 40k
    Last edited by Kaz; 06-14-2018 at 11:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The bid book is now something for wrapping dead fish in. They have to play games in Canada, that’s the only sure thing.

    Follow the money. Why would FIFA accept any stadium at 40K if they can replace it with a stadium seating 80K?

    I think FIFA will say to John Tory - Expand to 60K or we go to Montreal only. I would say the same about El Volcan, it has a high probability of getting dropped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    World Cup Venues

    Kaliningrad Stadium 31,484 for 2018 World Cup
    Central Stadium 35,000 for 2018 World Cup
    Mordovia Arena 40,441 for 2018 World Cup
    Nizhny Novgorod Stadium 41,042 for 2018 World Cup
    Volgograd Arena 40,479 for 2018 World Cup
    Rostov Arena 40,709 for 2018 World Cup
    Kazan Arena 41,338 for 2018 World Cup
    Cosmos Arena 40,882 for 2018 World Cup
    Fisht Olympic Stadium 43,480 for 2018 World Cup
    Otkritie Arena 41,465 for 2018 World Cup

    Only two of Russia's Venues are over 45k in seating.

    Khalifa International Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Qatar Foundation Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Ras Abu Aboud Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Al Thumama Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Al Wakrah Stadium 40,000 for 2022 World Cup
    Ahmed Bin Ali Stadium 44,740 for 2022 World Cup

    Only two of Qatar's Venues will be over 45k in seating.

    I honestly don't think FIFA would care if we just said screw it we'll raise it to 36k only. There are so many large stadiums in the Bid FIFA is seeing dollar signs already they won't worry about the Venue size of BMO or the smaller Mexican Stadiums. If what you were concerned about were valid than I'm sure Russia wouldn't be allowed to be using 2 stadiums under 40k
    Thanks Kaz, I was about to post something similar.

    Here's a link with the 2018 WC stadium capacities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_F...d_Cup#Stadiums

    Here's a link to the same for 2014: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_F...rld_Cup#Venues
    In soccer-mad Brazil, 6 stadiums had capacities under 45k.

    2010 South Africa similar. I realize that's a bit different, they shouldn't expect quite as much from a soccer development project like South Africa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_F...rld_Cup#Venues

    But how about 2006, in wealthy soccer-mad Germany? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_F...rld_Cup#Venues
    Almost the same thing: 5 venues in the low-to mid 40k's.

    There is a ton of precedent for having especially preliminary-round games in venues similar to the size that BMO Field will have, including temp seating. No-brainer for the largest city in Canada to be included, and the only one of three stadiums in Canada that's soccer-specific which has some benefits. We might get fewer games than Edmonton/Montreal and many US cities. We also might not get Canada games or other big draws, where FIFA will feel they can sell more tickets at a high demand & a high cost in Edmonton or Montreal. But I bet we will get some games in Toronto.

    Sure there are lots of bigger stadiums in the NA united bid. However there are plenty of low-drawing games in the first rounds that might be risky in some huge stadiums in the US back country. They will probably still sell well, but how well? FIFA doesn't like seeing the empty seats and low sale/resale value that we have seen at some recent World Cup games.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 06-14-2018 at 11:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    People in here are thinking the older FIFA who's priority was getting the executive council tons of money. Those executive council guys have been stripped of most of their power. It all lies now with the mass of individual country associations who have been promised $ from Infantino - he's been quite open about the $ flowing to the associations instead of just to FIFA. Which is why you saw a huge swath of countries vote as Blocs for the "United" bid.

    Today, CONMEBOL started the campaign for a joint Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay bid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urugua..._World_Cup_bid


    You think FIFA is going to screw with the joint bid approach when they know it makes them more money? Nah.....they might add Vancouver but even then Toronto gets at least 2 games out of 10.

    Its a 48 team competition now too, so smaller stadia in the first round are OK.

    Frankly, I think we can count on a North American hosted event every 24 years now. Who's up for 2050?
    Vancouver won't be getting the WC, unless there is a change in the provincial government, which won't happen until 2021. The BC NDP government have stood firm and again have confirmed that they won't support hosting the WC at BC Place (the stadium is provincially owned). The reasons were the risk of potential hidden costs and that FIFA could unilaterally change the stadium agreement.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/b-c-st...ames-1.3972285

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Ding ding ding.

    I predict the over under of serious linkage of the World Cup to an NFL team coming here is about 30 days.

    FIFA and the NFL play the same game.
    to me its a perfect scenario

    But i have my doubts about an NFL team without true tailgating

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The bid book is now something for wrapping dead fish in. They have to play games in Canada, that’s the only sure thing.

    Follow the money. Why would FIFA accept any stadium at 40K if they can replace it with a stadium seating 80K?

    I think FIFA will say to John Tory - Expand to 60K or we go to Montreal only. I would say the same about El Volcan, it has a high probability of getting dropped.
    El Volcan was never in the bid.

    Tigres crosstown rivals stadium is the choice for Monterrey.


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    I've maintained since the Vancouver decision was made that it was basically the execs of BC Place not being happy with the disruption. BC Place executives have their bonuses & salary increases based on revenue - with the stadium not being available for weeks before & after, they were looking at no growth in their personal income for a year. (ignoring the amount of money the province would get back in tax revenue).

    Any thing else is just posturing to the political base.

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    I'm surprised at some of the conspiracy theories here. 100% Toronto is going to get games, there is no question about that. It would be beyond politically stupid for Toronto to be overlooked. Also 99.9% certain Canada will get an automatic berth. That is the real diamond in getting a World Cup played here. No way would the CSA have gone down this road for 10 games only. Now we have 8 years and focal point for building the game here.

    Also, so incredibly stupid of Vancouver. This is as risk free a chance to host the biggest sporting event on earth as you get, way less risk than the Olympics they hosted. They were incredibly stupid there for pulling out and will no doubt regret it. Og may be right above about the real reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I'm surprised at some of the conspiracy theories here. 100% Toronto is going to get games, there is no question about that. It would be beyond politically stupid for Toronto to be overlooked. Also 99.9% certain Canada will get an automatic berth. That is the real diamond in getting a World Cup played here. No way would the CSA have gone down this road for 10 games only. Now we have 8 years and focal point for building the game here.

    Also, so incredibly stupid of Vancouver. This is as risk free a chance to host the biggest sporting event on earth as you get, way less risk than the Olympics they hosted. They were incredibly stupid there for pulling out and will no doubt regret it. Og may be right above about the real reasons.
    All this.

    I will wager all of my possessions, and loved one's possessions... and loved ones for that matter that Toronto will host games.

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    I think will see BMO (which I rather prefer not). Because they'll send up making more seats permanent.
    Vancouver's BC place, and Montreal Olympic stadium.
    Whoever plays in BC, there next matches will stay in the West end of the country. Plus they've hosted women soccer matches there before on the big stage.

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    I don’t think you guys have been paying close attention. The Euro 2020 “no host” model was developed around this specific issue. Every single one of the seven games in England, for instance, is at Wembley.

    We’ll see about the stadiums. The multi country model was brought in to get dramatically bigger average stadium sizes (before anyone posts about Copenhagen being in Euro 2020, I know, but Europe doesn’t have 15 90K+ seat stadiums. The USA does.

    Qatar. That was a long time ago, the bids were “voted” on in 2010. The USA 2022 bid was far superior financially to the Qatar bid, for exactly this reason. Qatar winning was evidence only that FIFA was crooked, not that FIFA accepts less money when given an open choice.

    The money goes to the federations. Most get ALL their funding from the World Cup. Those federations were the real victims, they got totally ripped off when corrupt Fifacrats voted for inferior bids, and they won’t be in much of a mood for sentimentality now. If sentiment mattered, Morocco would have won the 2026 vote in a landslide, or nobody would have won, and they would have reopened for European/Asian bids.
    Last edited by ensco; 06-14-2018 at 06:40 PM.
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    you are stretching. This isn't the Euro's

    Soccer is a secondary sport here no one is going to care if one or two stadiums are smaller. We are going to the point of adding in a load of temp seats.

    Fifa would lose all credibility if they were trying to widen the competition which will require more venues and then the first time it happens they start demanding 60k stadiums.

    It would literally make the 2026 cup the last as we know it. Fifa wouldn't be able to get anyone to bid.

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    ^Like I said earlier, they are talking about solving for this by creating a new 2025 “play in” tourney, in place of the Confederations Cup, and giving those games to USA/Canada/Mexico cities that don’t make the “final”.

    I also expect that'll be how our spot works (ie we're automatically in the play in)
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    all this talk re stadium size, this morning's game Uruguay v Egypt, had 27,015 in attendance at the 35,000-capacity Ekaterinburg Arena

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    Quote Originally Posted by burlington Red View Post
    all this talk re stadium size, this morning's game Uruguay v Egypt, had 27,015 in attendance at the 35,000-capacity Ekaterinburg Arena
    Again. To repeat: Russia and Qatar are evidence of the problem. Those votes were criminal frauds.

    This tournament would have otherwise been in England but for the criminal acceptance of bribes by FIFA officials - no way attendance would be less than 50K for that game in England. Probably 80K in a big enough stadium, given the popularity of Salah (the tickets went on sale months before he got hurt).

    Every federation looks at these attendance figures and thinks about that - guaranteed.
    Last edited by ensco; 06-15-2018 at 10:36 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

 

 

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