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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    The price paid for the CCL run was too high.
    We went out on PKs. Let's say we didn't and were crowned champions - would you feel that it was worth it?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by wopchop View Post
    We went out on PKs. Let's say we didn't and were crowned champions - would you feel that it was worth it?
    But we didn't win. So no one outside of a TFC supporter will remember that we lost in the final. The reason for this post was not too look back at what happened in the CCL and say it was a mistake to go all in, but rather to look forwards given that we now know the price of a CCL run, is it worth doing again? I don't believe anyone on the coaching staff or in club management thought such a thing would occur, otherwise the CCL would have been done differently.

    For me another CCL run shouldn't be undertaken until such time that there is a re-configuration of the CCL format, meaning starting later in the spring, spreading the tournament out over a longer period, and having some sort of reasonable ranking system. To have the best team in MLS play the best team in Mexico (Tigres) in the second round was ridiculous and illogical.

    It will be interesting to see how management approaches the CCL next time around.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 06-03-2018 at 09:29 AM.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    But we didn't win. So no one outside of a TFC supporter will remember that we lost in the final. The question, and my reason for this post, is now that we know the price of a CCL run, is it worth doing again given how it impacts the rest of the season? For me it isn't until such time that there is a re-configuration of the CCL format, meaning starting later in the spring, spreading the tournament out over a longer period, and having some sort of reasonable ranking system. To have the best team in MLS play the best team in Mexico (Tigres) in the second round was ridiculous and illogical.
    The scheduling is absurd, yes. But I don't know if we can ignore it if we qualify just for that reason.

    But this year they went 100% CCL vs. 0% league. And that obviously was not the correct call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    The scheduling is absurd, yes. But I don't know if we can ignore it if we qualify just for that reason.

    But this year they went 100% CCL vs. 0% league. And that obviously was not the correct call.
    It was 100% the correct call.

    You have a shot at something like that in front of you, you take that shot. With everything you have got.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  5. #125
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    Suck it up, buttercups. I am really disappointed at the criticism Bradley, Vanney, Delgado, Vazquez, others are getting.

    We are missing all our starting defenders from last year. Moor, Mavinga, Zavaleta, Morrow. ALL of them. You think that had the slightest, tiniest factor in our not holding the lead last night?

    We need to accept the fact that you don’t always get the result you should with some grace.

    22 games to go. 8 points back with a game in hand.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    It was 100% the correct call.

    You have a shot at something like that in front of you, you take that shot. With everything you have got.

    For this year okay given the historic 2017 year. What about going forward?

    It also depends on how you view CONCACAF. I have several friends from South America who believe that the Mexican league is inferior to the leagues in Brazil and Argentina, so for them wining CONCACAF is not that great of an accomplishment. Mind you that's just their opinion but winning CONCACAF might not be as prestigious as many TFC supporters believe it to be.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 06-03-2018 at 09:46 AM.

  7. #127
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    I think it was the right call at the time. I question, if we qualify again this year, whether it’s worth the continued elevated importance.

    It’s a joke that a championship team gets basically a 6 week offseason and then is asked to compete for a supposedly larger prise against foreign clubs in mid season form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think it was the right call at the time. I question, if we qualify again this year, whether it’s worth the continued elevated importance.

    It’s a joke that a championship team gets basically a 6 week offseason and then is asked to compete for a supposedly larger prise against foreign clubs in mid season form.
    Couldn't agree more. Changes to the format need to be made to level the playing field and make it both fair and desirable for MLS teams to compete. Otherwise its nothing more than a Mexican League Cup.

  9. #129
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    It is a lost season. We lost Concacaf and that was just the icing on the cake. With how we are looking 2018 might be a wash year for the club

  10. #130
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    Does anybody here actually pay attention to MLS? EVERY year, 2-3 teams charge from the back in August and September. Every single year.

    Now it may not be us, especially if we don’t get our backline back, but this “season over” thing is melodramatics.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    This is what is concerning, from Joshua Kloke, before last night's game:



    "Some numbers for anyone who thinks TFC shouldn't be panicking: Since MLS switched to current playoff format, the average number of points to grab 6th place in East is 47. To hit 47 points, TFC would need to grab 37 points from their final 23 games, or 1.6 PPG.
    Last season, only four MLS teams, including a historically good TFC team, hit 1.6 PPG. It's dire, and you shouldn't call it anything but that. Matches like tonight's against Columbus are must win."


    Now make it 36 points from their final 22 games.




    Last edited by NK Toronto; 06-03-2018 at 10:40 AM.

  12. #132
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    ^That’s not that bad a story! I am very comfortable that a full strength TFC will be better than 1.6 ppg.

    Also it’s not a relevant analysis. The question is, how often do teams hit 1.6 ppg over 23 games (or 22 games), not 34 games.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    The other factor that needs to be considered is the form of the injured players when they do eventually return. I don't expect Jozy, Mavinga, and Morrow to play at their usual level when they first get back. There will be an adjustment period for them to get back both their timing and fitness, especially given how long they have been out, and Vanney will probably ease them in gradually so as to avoid any re-injuries. He said so himself that players not fully recovered from injuries were rushed back into the line-up during the CCL run. The team we saw fielded last night in Columbus might be the team we continue to see over the next month or so.

    This season has lead me to conclude that Jozy is our most difficult player to replace. We had a good CCL run against high quality Mexican clubs essentially without Vazquez, but with Altidore out we are struggling badly against MLS teams, even with Seba, Bradley and VV all playing. We may not see Jozy play a full match, or close to one, until mid July.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 06-03-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  14. #134
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    I don't know what some of you guys see in Orlando that makes you think we can't catch them for the 6 spot, The Revs at 4 are nothing special either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Does anybody here actually pay attention to MLS? EVERY year, 2-3 teams charge from the back in August and September. Every single year.

    Now it may not be us, especially if we don’t get our backline back, but this “season over” thing is melodramatics.
    But that feat becomes a more difficult every year with more and more teams added. Yes, it can still happen, but the chances get lower simply due to numbers.

    Not saying we don't have a chance to do it ... but we need to be fully healthy to have any reasonable shot, and who knows when we're going to be fully healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    The only reason why tanking exists in the big four are incentives to get superstar talent on the cheap and under control.

    NHL, NBA and NFL all have potential to get you a superstar talent with a high pick. MLB, the bonus slot from a high draft pick ensures you have more money to sign difficult picks from going to college.

    MLS Superdraft is a joke because the best talent are either raised in the academy or poached by big clubs.
    The flip side of this post is that the NA sports have no comparison elsewhere in the rest of the world. That means a tank draft means a tank team will be getting the best player in the world that plays that NA sport.

    MLS Super draft is not a joke. TankDraft Principle is the joke. Footy just rises above it because the best in the world don't just come from NA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Not for me. I'll take a pass on another CCL run given what its done to our 2018 MLS Season. Send out TFC II and get knocked out in the 1st round. Instead focus on getting guys back and healthy so something can be salvaged out of this season. If TFC misses the play-offs the narrative written won't be about a team decimated by injuries. Instead it will be how we were a one hit wonder.
    That's assuming we never win another trophy in all the years to come. Unless you are commenting on every other team in the league but DC and LAG. Every other team has been a "one hit wonder" Otherwise known as winner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC1986 View Post
    If we don't make playoffs. The original poster deserves a free night of drinks on us.
    How would we find him? The season was over for him. We'll have to find him next year, I guess.
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    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I give these guys a pass if we don't make the playoffs. We've played a ton of football in the last year, and we've been decimated by injuries for what seems like an eternity.

    At this point, I'll be content with a Voyageurs Cup victory and a berth in the CCL.

    That being said, it's entirely plausible that we go on a run in the second half and storm our way into the post season with a lower seed. Once we get in, if we're healthy, we can beat anybody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    I give these guys a pass if we don't make the playoffs. We've played a ton of football in the last year, and we've been decimated by injuries for what seems like an eternity.

    At this point, I'll be content with a Voyageurs Cup victory and a berth in the CCL.

    That being said, it's entirely plausible that we go on a run in the second half and storm our way into the post season with a lower seed. Once we get in, if we're healthy, we can beat anybody.
    We can nearly beat other teams with what feels like a B team. Once we are back to strength after the World Cup, I think think team will go on a royal tear and jump up the standings. We just need to get our back line to return and get Bradley back in the midfield. I'm only half panicking or half delusional.

    I'll disagree with you that missing the playoffs would be a pass. This team should not miss the playoffs. I would not be happy, I'd rather miss the CCL than the MLS playoffs (not that I want to miss the CCL).

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    All journos sell eyeballs & subscriptions & papers with this stuff. Their job is to find a story and if they believe "panic time is now" is real, they will reach to write that because that sort of stuff sells.

    I also have an issue with how Kloke characterised the loss - sorry...away draw within the conference - on Saturday as something that injuries did not affect.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 06-04-2018 at 10:58 AM.

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    A run of four or five wins in a row and we're right back in the thick of it. I don't see that being impossible with this team once a few key players return. The fact that we're totally competitive with our current lineup, I'd even say getting the better of play against most teams, is really encouraging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfk View Post
    We can nearly beat other teams with what feels like a B team. Once we are back to strength after the World Cup, I think think team will go on a royal tear and jump up the standings. We just need to get our back line to return and get Bradley back in the midfield. I'm only half panicking or half delusional.

    I'll disagree with you that missing the playoffs would be a pass. This team should not miss the playoffs. I would not be happy, I'd rather miss the CCL than the MLS playoffs (not that I want to miss the CCL).
    And yet, one or two matches is all it takes. We don't have to choose between the two, CCL and Pussplops. They are 2 different seasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    All journos sell eyeballs & subscriptions & papers with this stuff. Their job is to find a story and if they believe "panic time is now" is real, they will reach to write that because that sort of stuff sells.

    I also have an issue with how Kloke characterised the loss - sorry...away draw within the conference - on Saturday as something that injuries did not affect.
    The only thing about Kloke which is positive is that hes using numbers and stats and previous years points totals to prove his point. So hes not just blowing smoke for the sake of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Does anybody here actually pay attention to MLS? EVERY year, 2-3 teams charge from the back in August and September. Every single year.

    Now it may not be us, especially if we don’t get our backline back, but this “season over” thing is melodramatics.
    Ensco, you are the only one with any common sense, reason and logic of most people who frequent these boards. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    That's assuming we never win another trophy in all the years to come. Unless you are commenting on every other team in the league but DC and LAG. Every other team has been a "one hit wonder" Otherwise known as winner.
    I see MLS growing and transforming into a league with less parity that is dominated by a half dozen or so big clubs that have the largest fan bases, generate the most revenue and have the highest payrolls. This would include teams such as NYC, Atlanta, Seattle, LA, and hopefully TFC. MY hope is that TFC be at or near the top of the table each and every year and an MLS Cup contender each and every year. Now I realize that you can't win all the time, but to have the team sitting second last in the East with over a third of the season gone makes it look like last season's championship was a one time occurrence and that we are nothing more than a Portland, a one time winner that quickly fades into mediocrity. I realize that the club has been hurt by injuries, but what happened Saturday in Columbus should never happen to a championship team.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 06-04-2018 at 10:16 PM.

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    I see MLS growing and transforming into a league with less parity that is dominated by a half dozen or so big clubs that have the largest fan bases, generate the most revenue and have the highest payrolls. This would include teams such as NYC, Atlanta, Seattle, LA, and hopefully TFC. MY hope is that TFC be at or near the top of the table each and every year and an MLS Cup contender each and every year. Now I realize that you can't win all the time, but to have the team sitting second last in the East with over a third of the season gone makes it look like last season's championship was a one time occurrence and that we are nothing more than a Portland, a one time winner that quickly fades into mediocrity. I realize that the club has been hurt by injuries, but what happened Saturday in Columbus should never happen to a championship team.
    Well NK I understand your vision of this league but it will be a long time coming. This league is built for parity. This league is still young and continues to add rule changes and teams to keep the league unpredictable.

    There will always be a bigger draw for the biggest names in NY and LA but even the smallest centres enjoy success for a time. That's not to say that we the supporters don't have a say in how attractive the club is to play for either. Toronto, Portland and Seattle aren't the biggest cities but have a fanbase that players talk about.

    I think Toronto fans see dynasties from years gone by and dream big. I count myself as one of them but in the modern sports landscape its just not profitable for leagues.

    What happened against Columbus was disappointing but hinging so much on a mid season loss of 2 points is a lot.

    This season has people letting their expectations finally run wild but as noted above by others, there are plenty of obstacles to just breezing to a repeat/dynasty.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 06-05-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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    Lets hope these moves happen and both teams form goes in the shitter...


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    Posted this on another thread but it applies here:

    Orlando loses tomorrow in Van, which is likely I think, and we beat D.C. at home on Tuesday the gap between us and the playoffs is 2 points with 20 games remaining and the world cup break coming up to get some rest and get guys healthy.

    We're gonna be just fine.

 

 

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