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  1. #271
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    I'd really like to understand the breakdown of squad discipline this season. This bothers me a lot. Refs are terrible and will make terrible calls, there's no control over that. But seeing so many players just fly off the handle, that is an internal issue.
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  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Martino has a foreign passport. That in itself is not an "amazing pedigree." His coaching abilities are roughly equivalent to Vanney.

    So besides cognitive bias, there is very much the idea that a foreign passport from a footballing nation automatically makes a better coach. An American like Vanney doesn't have a chance. He automatically "can't be good," even though he studied in France.

    You still haven't answered my question, though. Results are the thing that matters the most. Do you seriously believe Martino would have a better record than Vanney? Would he have won the triple, the CCL, and won the triple again this year? If yes, why do you believe that?
    Ugh this foreign passport garbage...

    This was Martino's CV before joining Atlanta - are we seriously going to say that he does not have a good pedigree as a coach?

    1998 Brown de Arrecifes
    1999 Platense
    2000 Instituto
    2002–2003 Libertad
    2003–2004 Cerro Porteño
    2005 Colón
    2005–2006 Libertad
    2007–2011 Paraguay
    2012–2013 Newell's Old Boys
    2013–2014 Barcelona
    2014–2016 Argentina

    Libertad

    Cerro Porteño

    Newell's Old Boys

    Paraguay

    Barcelona

    Argentina


    It's not that Vanney doesn't stand a chance because he's American or whatever. I rate American coaches (Bradley and Arena for example). He's clearly shown himself to have a high ceiling, but to me, he also has a low floor. Not everything is bias. Perhaps it is your own cognitive bias which makes you think that everyone you disagree with on this topic has a CB problem.

    I disagree that the results matter most when evaluating anyone. It's about the repeatability of circumstance. Can what happened be repeated and how likely is it that it was the individual in question's doing that caused that are the most important questions. People have pointed out that we were very lucky to beat Columbus in the semis as Kamara missed a sitter and if Bono hadn't of come up big against BWP in the quarters we would have also gone home. Without Bono against CA we definitely go home as we got run over in that match. Against Tigres we benefitted from an OG and Mavinga made a ridiculous clearance off the line, likewise, Gignac scored a penalty after a BS handball. Results are not everything.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Ugh this foreign passport garbage...

    This was Martino's CV before joining Atlanta - are we seriously going to say that he does not have a good pedigree as a coach?

    Except for Paraguay, Martino changed teams practically every year. To me that's a red flag. I've been a manager in business, I would have never have hired someone who changed jobs every year.

    Anyway it's an open question whether Martino's coaching is the primary factor or if he is benefitting from clever cap management and the huge allocation they now give new teams. Foreign coaches don't typically do well in MLS. He could be the exception, of course. His results in MLS aren't as good as Vanney's was last year, though.

    My mentioning cognitive bias was not intended as an insult. Every human has cognitive bias, myself included. We like to reinforce our already existing beliefs rather than change them.

    I did however change my mind on Vanney, I now think he's quite good overall tactically (rating using an MLS 3.0 level), although like all coaches he has his blind spots. I didn't think that well of him in the beginning.

    Anyway, you still haven't answered whether you think another coach would have beaten Vanney's record with this team, this salary cap. And why.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-12-2018 at 11:48 PM.

  4. #274
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    For me, if TFC don’t win their next 2 games (@San Jose, vs Montreal), they are done. I do think we can win both, but losing Altidore and Mavinga for the 1st one could be the dagger. Minimum need 7 wins and a draw to get in, in the final 11.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Except for Paraguay, Martino changed teams practically every year. To me that's a red flag. I've been a manager in business, I would have never have hired someone who changed jobs every year.

    Anyway it's an open question whether Martino's coaching is the primary factor or if he is benefitting from clever cap management and the huge allocation they now give new teams. Foreign coaches don't typically do well in MLS. He could be the exception, of course. His results in MLS aren't as good as Vanney's was last year, though.

    My mentioning cognitive bias was not intended as an insult. Every human has cognitive bias, myself included. We like to reinforce our already existing beliefs rather than change them.

    I did however change my mind on Vanney, I now think he's quite good overall tactically (rating using an MLS 3.0 level), although like all coaches he has his blind spots. I didn't think that well of him in the beginning.

    Anyway, you still haven't answered whether you think another coach would have beaten Vanney's record with this team, this salary cap. And why.
    Can't go back and forth on everything bc we'll clog this board but I respectfully disagree with your opinions, though I get where you're coming from.

    On your question, I believe I did answer it when I took issue with the premise which was that results matter most in this case. If you really want to dig into it we'd be going through so many hypotheticals we'd be here for days, it's a useless exercise really.

  6. #276
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    I believe I said this earlier this year but I believe in this quote "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results" I hope I'm wrong but it just hasn't been good enough this year and everyone from top to bottom needs to be evaluated to see their uses to help our team or get rid of dead weight

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    I'd really like to understand the breakdown of squad discipline this season. This bothers me a lot. Refs are terrible and will make terrible calls, there's no control over that. But seeing so many players just fly off the handle, that is an internal issue.
    It's unacceptable especially coming from the supposed leaders.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Can't go back and forth on everything bc we'll clog this board but I respectfully disagree with your opinions, though I get where you're coming from.

    On your question, I believe I did answer it when I took issue with the premise which was that results matter most in this case. If you really want to dig into it we'd be going through so many hypotheticals we'd be here for days, it's a useless exercise really.
    Cheers.

  9. #279
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    It ain't over till that person sings! But what I love/hate is the hope on the what-ifs and the emotional rollercoaster every game at BMO Field. Ignoring the idiot behind us chirping "Hey you losers, you were Champs last year... what are you doing?" while wearing a red TFC Giovinco jersey. I also cannot understand the sheer lack of discipline from experienced players like Altidore and Mavinga. It is SO FRUSTRATING. They know that the stakes are high and that opponents play a mind game.That is a constant of professional football.
    A rush to the head after just 11 minutes in inexcusable.
    Vanney and Bradley have to kick it into them that discipline is a top priority and we need every single man on the pitch.

    There is still time to claw back the six points to be level with the bluepacts and the Revs... but time is running out. At this rate I (and probably the players) would settle for the Voyageurs Cup guaranteeing CCL entry and a nice long holiday after the end of the MLS regular season.

  10. #280
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    We're playing the last place team San Jose next weekend, then Montreal at home. 6 Points are 100% needed from these 2 games. It will decide if we have a chance for playoffs or not.
    Goalie Coach for Georgetown SC. Play-by-Play Commentator for League 1 Ontario.
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  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodooman View Post
    We're playing the last place team San Jose next weekend, then Montreal at home. 6 Points are 100% needed from these 2 games. It will decide if we have a chance for playoffs or not.
    NYCFC was a must win game; but with Montreal only getting a point and New England losing it wasn't a horrible weekend. Knowing we have Mavinga, Altidore, Moor, Vazquez and Janson coming back; we have life.

    I would consider these next 2 games must win. If you can't get a win vs last place San Jose; and you lose the swing game with Montreal; i'd call it a season.

  12. #282
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    It ain't going to be easy for anybody playing us. We are an underdog to make the playoffs. But everybody is going to hate playing this team.

    That is going to make me smile the rest of the season. Enjoy getting your playoff hopes dimmed and dashed by the Reds.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    NYCFC was a must win game; but with Montreal only getting a point and New England losing it wasn't a horrible weekend. Knowing we have Mavinga, Altidore, Moor, Vazquez and Janson coming back; we have life.

    I would consider these next 2 games must win. If you can't get a win vs last place San Jose; and you lose the swing game with Montreal; i'd call it a season.
    It was a horrible weekend though, losing that one point at the end was big as it puts us 7 behind philly which means it takes three games to catch them for 5th-- tough since we are level on games played. It will take 2 games to catch NE but maybe worst of all we have now been caught and passed by D.C. who have games in hand and are rolling. We can still do it be we need other results to go our way

  14. #284
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    Well, we have to peel off a streak of 5 wins out of 6 games, or something like that, in the next 8 or 9 games. They sure are leaving it late.
    Last edited by ensco; Yesterday at 02:51 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Well, we have to peel off a streak of 5 wins out of 6 games, or something like that, in the next 8 or 9 games. They sure are leaving it late.
    One positive thing is about the next 11 games is that four of the games are against East teams chasing the playoffs: Impact (twice), NE, and DC. It would be great to go on a hot streak now and not have to wait until the last game against Atlanta and have our destiny in the hands of other teams on Decision Day.

  16. #286
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    Its now or never.

  17. #287
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    Successful season.

    The rest is gravy.
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