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  1. #1
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    Default Is the gap between MLS and Liga MX really narrowing?

    Thought this might be an interesting topic. I think the gap has narrowed at the top of MLS. But it's still as big as ever once you get past that. You can really see the difference in quality watching TFC play these Mexican teams. They play faster, more incisively, any player can take you on, and they can really put a knife to your throat when they want. They are fun to watch. My surprise was that they don't just move the ball faster, they are also way quicker - both CA and Tigres gave us no time on the ball at all. I would have thought that was one area MLS teams may be a bit better. Most MLS teams by comparison are just slow, plodding and predictable.

    I think maybe 3-5 teams in MLS could compete at a good level in Liga MX. The rest would get throttled most nights.

    Thoughts?

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    The speed of play is really impressive with the LigaMX. When they press, they give no time to the opposing players. It really exposes those who aren't comfortable with the ball at their feet and forced quite a few errand clearances. This is something you don't normally see in the MLS.

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    In the CCL we are drawn against the top Mexican teams - often CA, Santos Laguna, Tigers, Cruz Azul etc. Put DC U or Minnesota against these guys and watch the carnage, but I like their chances better against Atlas or Leon. Our best can hang with their best. I presume that our bottom rung might do the same against theirs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler View Post
    In the CCL we are drawn against the top Mexican teams - often CA, Santos Laguna, Tigers, Cruz Azul etc. Put DC U or Minnesota against these guys and watch the carnage, but I like their chances better against Atlas or Leon. Our best can hang with their best. I presume that our bottom rung might do the same against theirs.
    Given that NYRB just lost out to 15th place Guadelajara, I'm not convinced of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    Given that NYRB just lost out to 15th place Guadelajara, I'm not convinced of this.
    NYRB outplayed Chivas last night and should have scored 4 goals. Marsch is making a mistake by not trusting his new DP but then Marsch needs to learn that sometimes the dogma of a defined style needs to adjust to the qualities of players within the roster. If Kaku was in from the beginning, they would have won.

    ********

    I put NYRB, LAFC (yes, even with that defence), Atlanta, NYC, Columbus & us up there with Liga Mx mid table or better. The one consistent in those teams is quality of coaching. The biggest difference up to us is the commitment to defence.

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    Agree with much of what was said.

    I'd also add that I feel sometimes people get caught up in spending differences between their clubs and ours, translating that into player quality. I think if we could spend more money on our roster (due to increased salary cap and/or league revenue to support it) that some, (not all but some,) of our players would simply get raises.

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    I hear you that Chivas just knocked out NYRB. I am contending that a current top MLS team (which changes often due to parity) can now give a consistently good match to one of Mexico's traditionally strong clubs. Also, our traditionally smaller clubs should be a good test for theirs.
    Last edited by Tyler; 04-11-2018 at 03:15 PM.

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    That's fair. I'm not convinced that the mid to lower tier MLS sides are ready to compete in any way with Liga Mx even at the bottom, but the fact that our league's teams can turn around seemingly on a dime (I mean, 2014 to 2017 we went worst to best ever) means that any team that commits to winning can do it if they approach it right. Og is not far off when he points out that our strength begins with the off-field staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    NYRB outplayed Chivas last night and should have scored 4 goals. Marsch is making a mistake by not trusting his new DP but then Marsch needs to learn that sometimes the dogma of a defined style needs to adjust to the qualities of players within the roster. If Kaku was in from the beginning, they would have won.

    ********

    I put NYRB, LAFC (yes, even with that defence), Atlanta, NYC, Columbus & us up there with Liga Mx mid table or better. The one consistent in those teams is quality of coaching. The biggest difference up to us is the commitment to defence.
    I agree and I would add Galaxy, Sporting KC and a healthy Sounders team to that list. MLS' top 10 are quite good.

    These 3 in particular have top skill and a very solid brand.

    Toronto FC
    L.A Galaxy
    Atlanta United
    Last edited by Defoe; 04-11-2018 at 06:19 PM.

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    I think this is a loaded question.

    I think Liga Mx pound for pound is the better league. MLS has with TAM, GAM and 3 DP's soften the salary cap a fair bit. TFC has a salary of like 27 Million. Without DP's a MLS side can field a 10m Salary with TAM this year iirc. That means with smart team building, smart acquisitions and good loan deals a MLS side without a single DP should be able to produce very good results with strong on budget players of the quality of out 4-8. With a few budget oriented DP's other MLS teams could field teams with 3 good DP's with a total team salary that could likely compete with Liga MX for 15-20m. If every MLS was spending that and PRO was not the joke it is, then yes the gap would be very low. The only advantage the Liga MX teams would have at that point is the altitude and poor air quality.

    However not every MLS side does that. Not every MLS side spends smart.

    Liga MX has no Salary cap as far as I know. They pay Mexican Players more than they would be worth in MLS, they pay more for big names than an MLS team would pay. We wouldn't go after a Gignac (sp) as we can get someone that can do a similar job and work with the players around him better for less. So should Liga MX choose to spend their money a little more wisely and try to improve their teams with a budget thinking as MLS teams do they would still utterly dominate and would likely give Europe big side a run for a fraction of the cost as the issue or over paying is even worse there.

    Has the gap closed. Yes and No. The Gap has been shown that Liga MX is over paying for players and that MLS is getting good budget players. However MLS sides are still a mess they know how to find MLS 2.0 players. Minnesota and Atlanta are a perfect example. Minnesota went out and built a decent MLS 2.0 side. Atlanta went out and built a MLS 3.0 side.

    NYCFC, LAFC, Toronto and Atlanta are all MLS 3.0 teams (though LA is still an expansion side) I'm sure there are some others. We are in that transition now.

    Due to that Transition MLS in say 2022 or 2023 Just as MLS 2.0 really showed up in 2007 and by 2012-2013 all by TFC were really handling it well I think we will have closed the gap with Liga MX of 2017/18 by then. The question is will Liga MX 2022 evolve past Liga MX of today. If they haven't then Champions league will be a much more even affair.

    Of course Toronto may just be an aberration where they are able to get results through sheer force of will and dumb luck.

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    No. The gap between us and Liga MX is though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    No. The gap between us and Liga MX is though.
    C'mon man. I know you followed the other series. NYRB and even Seattle were competitive.

    But this convo is always loaded to explode into exaggeration from both sides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    That's fair. I'm not convinced that the mid to lower tier MLS sides are ready to compete in any way with Liga Mx even at the bottom,
    There's no sure way of knowing, but fwiw, if we accept the assumptions that (i) TFC and the other top few MLS teams are at least close to the level of the top few LMX sides, and (ii) MLS has a higher degree of parity than LMX, then it would seem to suggest that middle- and lower-tier MLS sides would be competitive with bottom MLX teams.

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    Sometimes Barca loses to Roma, but that's not the way to bet it.

    Payroll is a pretty good proxy for competitiveness. Three years ago, Liga MX paid 50% higher salaries, on average.
    https://playingfor90.com/2016/03/24/...ated-salaries/

    That gap has probably narrowed a bit, although there has been a big increase in Gignac/Menez type signings in Mexico.

    TFC, with its $25M payroll, probably would be mid table in salaries in Mexico. But they'd be far from the top. There's no salary cap in Mexico, and there is a vast difference between the big clubs and the rest. I bet Tigres' wage bill is $60M or something.

    Take Chivas' stud AM, Pizarro (a guy we are about to start talking about, a lot) as an example of the big gap still between the two leagues.

    MLS doesn't have guys making internal transfers for $14M like this guy did a year ago
    http://www.espn.com/soccer/guadalaja...o-from-pachuca

    On the day, we should probably beat Queretaro, but lose to Tigres or America. (Unless we don't )
    Last edited by ensco; 04-12-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    C'mon man. I know you followed the other series. NYRB and even Seattle were competitive.

    But this convo is always loaded to explode into exaggeration from both sides.
    At home they were. But away not even close Seattle and NYRB looked comical away from home. Robles stood on his head against Tijuana, the team that should have gone through if judging class, which was also missing its leading scorer if I'm correct. FC Dallas lost to a team that was in 8th in the Panamanian league.

    The only teams I'd be willing to say is on or near our level of play AND ambition are Atlanta and NYCFC, there's a big gap after that for me. But it's really hard to judge given they aren't in CCL. Then again I did say Tigres would wipe the floor with us, so perhaps I'm really just a pessimist about all of this.
    Last edited by portu; 04-12-2018 at 07:11 PM.

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    I think any team other than us would have gotten destroyed by Tigres and America. So while the top end of MLS is definitely catching up it's not there yet so I don't think the gap is as close as some imagine. If we weren't in the competition this year it would likely be an all LigaMX final.

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    Even a pessimist should to be able to see this year on a whole was a narrowing between the two leagues. If one or a select few don't wish to celebrate the amount by which the MLS improved, so be it. It seems self defeating to me.
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