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  1. #61
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    It's astonishing the extent to which one voice has tainted an entire fan base for many supporters around the league.

    I feel like that says something about the current state of the Crew. Can't put my finger on it though.

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    Crew beat writer says MLS FO's are increasingly growing sympathetic with the #savetheCrew movement. Long road to saving them but this is good for now.

    Honestly the league said the Houston debacle was the last time we'd see relocation. Was a stain on the league for a solid few years and the players, many now in FO's, remember that shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I don't know what the Crews groups are doing. I tend to avoid them. #xenophobic #billarcherfans

    Maybe Phil has heard something from the supporters union?
    Yea, i'm not particularly fond of them or their fans but if Precourt gets away with this it's sets a dangerous precedent. Should be a coordinated response from fans of all MLS sides to be against this IMO.

    Grain of salt and all that...

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    The Crew FO is doing well at sticking it to its fans. I think the 2018 season is going to be really ugly for everyone involved.

    http://www.espnfc.us/columbus-crew-s...mid-move-plans

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    For support, got the idea since there was a logo already done but it was shit, who ever did it lost alot of the details in our logo.


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    now supposedly there was a bid of 75 million for half the team and Precourt turned them down. He bought the team for 68 Million.

    Precourt never wanted a team in Columbus. He just figured out a loophole to not pay an expansion fee for a team in Austin. Bogus backwards bull shit is all I can see. Looking increasingly like Garber got conned and can't figure out a way to go back on his promise and have the league save face.

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    I don't get some TFC supporters.

    For years TFC supporter groups have been calling Columbus a shit hole, making fun of their half empty stadiums, complaining that of all the road trips, Columbus is the worst because there is literally nothing to do there - Now all of a sudden the groups think the KKKrew should be saved?

    Outside of the Krew supporters group - The city of Columbus has shown little to no interest in the club. They are not a draw anywhere else in the country - they are so obsolete the league had to make up a fake rivalry with us in order to try and make them relevant - which the supporters groups for TFC, reporters, even casual fans - have blatantly expressed "there is no rivalry here".

    No one has cared about the Krew...until now.

    and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!

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    its about hold the city hostage, demanding an inner city stadium or moving them. yes we hate the crew, but put yourself in our their shoes. would you like it if MLSE up and sold the team to else where because they didnt get a new in city stadium?

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    Furthermore, it is frankly a precedent setter in MLS 3.0. The league was deeply embarrassed and regretful over the fallout of the Dynamo/'Quakes ordeal and for a long time it looked like they learned from their mistake. This suggests otherwise.

    Columbus is the shithole we all love to hate. But them moving means anyone can move if things are bad enough/ a new owner is aggressive enough in moving a team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I don't get some TFC supporters.

    For years TFC supporter groups have been calling Columbus a shit hole, making fun of their half empty stadiums, complaining that of all the road trips, Columbus is the worst because there is literally nothing to do there - Now all of a sudden the groups think the KKKrew should be saved?

    Outside of the Krew supporters group - The city of Columbus has shown little to no interest in the club. They are not a draw anywhere else in the country - they are so obsolete the league had to make up a fake rivalry with us in order to try and make them relevant - which the supporters groups for TFC, reporters, even casual fans - have blatantly expressed "there is no rivalry here".

    No one has cared about the Krew...until now.

    and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!
    That's a pretty rich take...

    They are an important club in the history of the MLS, they were the first club to have a soccer specific stadium. No offence, if MLSE didn't dump significant money into BMO, our stadium wasn't any better... Even now its only slightly better and a lot worse compared to the majority of the SSS in the MLS. Maybe you are sour do to a bad experience because is Philadelphia any better? Washington? I never had any issue being in Columbus (been there countless times) I always found something to do...

    The making of the rivalry was when we were new and it was easy as they were closest.. But I bet if you ask any TFC supporter who do they want to beat the most year in and year out it would probably be Montreal first then Columbus/Vancouver second.. So was it manufactured yes, but now at least there is some animosity mainly due to us being shit for 8/9 years

    That being said we don't know the market to justify the bolded part of your comment.. One can assume that the owner has done next to nothing with respect to marketing, promotions, community outreach etc... They don't draw away as there are no star players on the squad.. The same way TFC wasn't a draw till Bradley, Altidore and Giovinco showed up.

    The only good think about MLSE is their money, if they didn't own this team and it was run on a shoe string budget averaging 10K a match how long do you think TFC would last?

    At the end of the day, the idea from everything I have read is that he (the owner) had no intention of ever keeping the team there. Now its in the open, I hope no one gives him money for a stadium.. As the Austin's mayor is on the record they will not fund a stadium.

    If the MLS is complicit and knew this from the start then there are deep issues that need to be discussed .
    Last edited by TheGoodson; 10-20-2017 at 12:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post

    and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!
    God, the waft of condescension on this is staggering. Well done for completely missing the point.
    German21 and molenshtain get the crux of the matter in the posts that followed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I don't get some TFC supporters.

    For years TFC supporter groups have been calling Columbus a shit hole, making fun of their half empty stadiums, complaining that of all the road trips, Columbus is the worst because there is literally nothing to do there - Now all of a sudden the groups think the KKKrew should be saved?

    Outside of the Krew supporters group - The city of Columbus has shown little to no interest in the club. They are not a draw anywhere else in the country - they are so obsolete the league had to make up a fake rivalry with us in order to try and make them relevant - which the supporters groups for TFC, reporters, even casual fans - have blatantly expressed "there is no rivalry here".

    No one has cared about the Krew...until now.

    and those crying out that "a precedence is being set with this move" clearly do not know the history of this very league and it's tradition is moving/shutting down clubs...or for that matter - Pro sports in North America at all!
    I admit, I'm in this camp.
    The Krew aren't TFC's nemesis.

    Leafs Vs Habs
    Yanks vs BoSox
    Argos vs TiCats

    TFC vs Krew??

    the first three examples...those teams love to hate each other. The leagues wouldn't be the same if they didn't have those match ups.

    I feel bad for the handful of progressive supporters in Columbus.

    They'll have Cinci FC soon.

    not having the krew isn't going to impact my MLS experience.
    I swore off going back to that city a few years back.

    No Fan base should be pooped on like this, but why does anyone do anything...because they can.
    If Precourt could be stopped, he would be stopped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post

    At the end of the day, the idea from everything I have read is that he (the owner) had no intention of ever keeping the team there. Now its in the open, I hope no one gives him money for a stadium.. As the Austin's mayor is on the record they will not fund a stadium.

    If the MLS is complicit and knew this from the start then there are deep issues that need to be discussed .
    The League and the previous ownership have had this in their back pockets since the takeover occurred.


    The Columbus Dispatch reports that Precourt’s acquisition of the club from the Hunts included a promise to keep the team in Columbus for 10 years -- but it also included an exit clause for Austin, Texas.
    Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/featu...JoErgqOwYtr.99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    God, the waft of condescension on this is staggering. Well done for completely missing the point.
    German21 and molenshtain get the crux of the matter in the posts that followed.
    And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this. So much so that apparently there was an exit clause for Austin Tx in the buyout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this. So much so that apparently there was an exit clause for Austin Tx in the buyout.
    That has to do with extraordinarily poor ownership. Columbus is a fine, increasingly progressive young-ish city with a basically downtown stadium and is down the road from a university that has a pop of 40k. They should be doing a lot better than they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this. So much so that apparently there was an exit clause for Austin Tx in the buyout.
    One could say Precourt putting that clause in meant he had no intention of making it work in Columbus...

    How about Precourt turning down a $75M offer from the Columbus Partnership for 50% ownership rights? A group that was committed to sorting the stadium situation in Columbus and increasing local sponsorship dollars.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    And all 3 of your are missing the point that the Columbus Crew as it stands is not working. It hasn't been working for years and the League and previous ownership group knew this.
    as much as TFC in the pre Leiweke years was not working. If MLSE hadn't turned it around, I don't think TFC would be around anymore.
    Road Games:
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    If any of you want to learn more about this gong show, go on reddit and read any one of the couple dozen threads about this mess. I sent an email to the posted MLS contact and I cc'd my ticket rep. It may not be much, but if you give a damn about supporters not get fucked, I encourage you to do the same. If it can happen to the Crew, it can happen to us. We aren't far removed from the dark days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fergiejr View Post
    as much as TFC in the pre Leiweke years was not working. If MLSE hadn't turned it around, I don't think TFC would be around anymore.
    This could have been us

    Without MLSE's deep pockets we would be in the same boat....

    Mark my words if Montreal doesn't get their shit together, they will be the next one to potentially move. Think about what the owner said in Columbus and then look at Saputo's comments about being a small market team that they can't compete financially. If that happens Saputo will sell the team and they will move to the US somewhere...
    Last edited by TheGoodson; 10-20-2017 at 02:33 PM.

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    ^ I wonder if Saputo would sell his stake in MLS and move the Impact to the CPL?

    As for the Crew, MLS has done it before to San Jose/Chivas/Miami/Tampa so it shouldn't be a surprise, but I think what is sticking in everyone's craw is the way Precourt and MLS have gone about this. They were much more up-front about the other situations, but this has all been done on the hush-hush. For a league that espouses transparency, it's not a good look.

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    All I have to say is, “ save the Crew” , no fan base deserves to lose their team!

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    Fair comment. The question is, are the Crew losing tonnes of money, is that inevitable, or could the right owner turn it around. I remember when the then "Kansas City Wizards" played in a 10,000 seat baseball park. The right owner turned it around.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-20-2017 at 08:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Totally respect that sentiment because at the end of the day a business is a business. To me it's just how this is all going down with the Crew as it currently appears that bothers me ie the smoke and mirrors.

    As it's been mentioned it was really getting bad for TFC prior to TL arriving towards the end of 2013. In my Facebook timeline today a five year old memory popped up, it was from the Reds final home game of the 2012 season vs. Montreal. Just look at the crowd. 1-2 more bad seasons and this could be TFC that we are talking about in this thread instead of the Crew.


    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    That post assumes



    • ownership & the league are making the better fiscal move
    • soccer teams make money - most in the world don't
    • that said move is neutral to fanbases in both Austin & Cincinnati
    • that supporter's opinions are based on emotion only
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 10-20-2017 at 08:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post


    Fair comment. The question is, are the Crew losing tonnes of money, is that inevitable, or could the right owner turn it around. I remember when the then "Kansas City Wizards" played in a 10,000 seat baseball park. The right owner turned it around.
    I remember back in the day KC was a joke and thought for sure they were getting relocated. The way they turned things around i's actually quite remarkable. There's no reason why the same couldn't be possible in Columbus with the right stadium and marketing.

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    “This could have been us”?

    No.

    - Toronto is the 5th largest MSA in North America, Columbus is 36th.
    - We had already demonstrated the financial viability here, the club had consistent sellouts and made money hand over fist the first few years.
    - Show me an example of of one of the MLSE comparables (ie the sports conglomerates in NY, Philly, Boston, Denver, LA) selling one of their teams. If it were going to happen somewhere, it would be with the Rapids, who have never really shown anything close to what we showed 2007-2010. But that's a top 10 MSA, and it's part of a sports marketing/broadcasting monopoly strategy - there's no way. Kroenke will sell it all, or nothing, he'd never sell any of it piecemeal. Same for the others.

    Those were “dark days”, but only in fan terms. In business terms, TFC in 2013 was a poorly run asset, not an asset whose viability was in question. (btw TFC has probably lost more money 2014-17, than it made 2007-10, but that is for another thread)

    Columbus played the second leg in the second round of the playoffs two years ago against Montreal in front of thousands of empty seats. (This wasn't one of the play in games midweek, played on three days notice, that often have empty seats.) That is not what happened in Colorado btw - I looked it up, people showed up and froze their asses for both playoff games last year.

    You think we would have big empty sections for a playoff game here? The commentators on that Columbus-Montreal game were openly speculating about the viability of the team.

    I do have one big problem with this, and it’s with the idea that no refunds to season ticket holders will be offered. I hope some SSHs there sue the owners ass and win on that.
    Last edited by ensco; 10-21-2017 at 07:30 AM.
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    Is Columbus doing that bad and losing fistfuls of money? I never got that impression. But I honestly don't know. I always thought Dallas, Colorado, etc were the teams struggling to get fans in seats. It feels like a bit if a manufactured 'crisis.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Is Columbus doing that bad and losing fistfuls of money? I never got that impression. But I honestly don't know. I always thought Dallas, Colorado, etc were the teams struggling to get fans in seats. It feels like a bit if a manufactured 'crisis.'
    I think they lose a bit of money, but it's more that they don't see a way to change the paradigm and make a lot money, the way KC did. They are on the treadmill to nowhere.

    Columbus is hiding behind the stadium issue, they have a good enough SSS 5 minutes from downtown. I think it's made up issue, they'd renovate Crew Stadium if they thought that investment would pay off. I just don't think they have the numbers of fans, actual and latent, to make it work. I have no idea if Austin will be better, it's plausible that it would be. But I think it's obvious that Columbus sucks as a market. That team should have been in Cleveland or Cincinnati to begin with. It's bizarre that the Hunts went there to begin with.. (The Blue Jackets will eventually move too. Same problem in the long run.)

    Precourt sees himself not as a stockholder but as a “stuckholder”. He wants to get un-stuck.

    I find Colorado the most mystifying situation in the league. They are not in the deep boonies like Dallas, they have a gorgeous stadium half an hour from everyhwere (but not actually near anything, maybe that is part of it), and that is a big, sports crazed market. It's weird. It may have something to do with the fact that the team has mostly sucked the last 5-6 years.
    Last edited by ensco; 10-21-2017 at 07:53 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think they lose a bit of money, but it's more that they don't see a way to change the paradigm and make a lot money, the way KC did. They are on the treadmill to nowhere.

    Columbus is hiding behind the stadium issue, they have a good enough SSS 5 minutes from downtown. I think it's made up issue, they'd renovate Crew Stadium if they thought that investment would pay off. I just don't think they have the numbers of fans, actual and latent, to make it work. I have no idea if Austin will be better, it's plausible that it would be. But I think it's obvious that Columbus sucks as a market. That team should have been in Cleveland or Cincinnati to begin with. It's bizarre that the Hunts went there to begin with.. (The Blue Jackets will eventually move too. Same problem in the long run.)

    Precourt sees himself not as a stockholder but as a “stuckholder”. He wants to get un-stuck.

    I find Colorado the most mystifying situation in the league. They are not in the deep boonies like Dallas, they have a gorgeous stadium half an hour from everyhwere (but not actually near anything, maybe that is part of it), and that is a big, sports crazed market. It's weird. It may have something to do with the fact that the team has mostly sucked the last 5-6 years.
    Mapfre Stadium is in the middle of the fairground completely isolated by a rail line to the west and nothing within vicinity for bars. It wouldn't be so bad if it's accessible by public transit, but it's Columbus, meaning there's nothing for public transit options. BMO Field might be on Ex grounds, but there's a streetcar line and GO Trains two minutes away. Not to mention Liberty Village's growing bar scene where you can do European style pub crawls. All you have near Mapfre is a Rona's north of it.

    Either the Crew renovates Mapfre and the city develop public transit options or the Crew moves downtown and build a better stadium with their own money while Columbus uses that as an excuse to build an LRT line.

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    ^Sure a nice new stadium would do better. Same as it would here. I could argue that a 50K SSS would work in TO if it was nice and you put it where Skydome is.

    You can cross the entire city of Columbus in 15 minutes. It's 5-7 minutes from downtown.

    Columbus' situation isn't remotely like KC or Boston. The stadium isn’t the real issue.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

 

 

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