Columbus Crew to Austin unless new stadium deal is reach

[Hamilton_Red]

Yes I am with the #savethecrew. I think the American view of "franchises that are the owners plaything" is shite. A promotion relegation system would allow an Austin to work up to the MLS level and if uns-supported Columbus to move to a lower division. Billionaire owners extracting tax subsidy by ransoming their teams is plain wrong. The precedent needs to be stopped. I'd be with a movement to boycot games with the relocated team to send the league the message.

From a selfish perspective...this will either complete demoralize the team and they will be out in the first playoff game...or it will give them some major incentive. I would not like to play them in the play-offs if it goes the way of the latter. The other thing is that is that Columbus is a reasonable road trip distance for Toronto...not so Austin.

[paul-collins]

From a selfish perspective...this will either complete demoralize the team and they will be out in the first playoff game...or it will give them some major incentive.

Something like this?

[RedsYNWA]

This downtown stadium is BS in my opinion. Columbus is a small city less than 30 min gets you everywhere. I along with countless others travel from Burlington/Oakville to see TFC. So its either 20$ for the GO or 20$ for parking plus the time (1 hour+ sometimes 2) Plus the drinks/food/cab or uber. It has always been a 100$ plus day sometimes 200 for each game, That is not including the cost of tickets. We have been season seat holders since day 1 & stuck with the team during the bad years. So cry me a river people that fork out a TTC fare or people in Ohio that could not be bothered with a 30 min commute. Support your team or lose it

[Detroit_TFC]

Yes, there is the precedent of teams moving. In this case (and in that case, but that's history now) it should be opposed and MLSE bigwigs should be lobbied to oppose this move at the MLS Board level. Why? It doesn't make sense for the league. It's not meeting some unfulfilled demand for a team in Austin. If the Crew was sold to Precourt with the understanding that the league would support eventual movement of the team to Austin, it should have been rejected by the Board at the time. If the operator-investor can't make the business work, let him step out.

MLS is so full of absurdities and double standards, it is mind bending. It functions as a franchise system but then here decides that no, this team is the property of an investor and if he wants to move it, it's his to do so. More and more I see the need to fight the concept of franchise, and eventually make the changes necessary to make MLS in to an independent club run league. It may take a 100 years (hopefully not) but the current not-fish/not-fowl structure seems increasingly regressive and no longer serves its original purpose to nurture the infant league.

[Redcoe15]

There have been plenty of example of franchises in other sports moving to another town for the slimiest of reasons. Robert Irsey moving the Colts from Baltimore to Indianapolis. Norm Green moving the Stars from Minnesota to Dallas. Michael Heisley moving the Grizzlies from Vancouver to Memphis. But eventually everyone got over it, accepted it and moved on.

I'm not one hundred percent certain Anthony Precourt will move the Crew out of Columbus and into Austin. Nobody in the Texas capital is chomping at the bit for an MLS team, much less an existing one looking for a new home. And, from what I've read, there isn't any land within the city core to put a stadium in, something MLS is definitely insisting on now, and zero interest in providing public money to build it.

But if it should come to pass, we all need to accept it and move on. Soccer is no different than any of the other major league sports in these neck of the woods. And given their traditionally poor attendance figures, it isn't as if there's no reason for the Crew not to move.

MLS will never abandon the franchise structure and have independently run clubs, nor other traditional methods like promotion/relegation, like they do in Europe and around the world. Financially, logistically, it would just do the league more harm than good.

[TheGoodson]

Another reason I think this is all grandstanding by the league and the owner is to squeeze Columbus is that San Antonio wants a team and its backed by the San Antonio Spurs. IMO I would guess it’s a better sports market and is backed by the best run sports organization in all of NA. Why would they go to Austin with no government help for a stadium and from what I hear no land in the downtown core. Plus there is no way they would put 4 teams in Texas. Also, the owners would be giving up all of that additional revenue that an expansion fee would bring.

[jabbronies]

I just want to quote this for those who may have missed it.

“This could have been us”?

No.

- Toronto is the 5th largest MSA in North America, Columbus is 36th.
- We had already demonstrated the financial viability here, the club had consistent sellouts and made money hand over fist the first few years.
- Show me an example of of one of the MLSE comparables (ie the sports conglomerates in NY, Philly, Boston, Denver, LA) selling one of their teams. If it were going to happen somewhere, it would be with the Rapids, who have never really shown anything close to what we showed 2007-2010. But that's a top 10 MSA, and it's part of a sports marketing/broadcasting monopoly strategy - there's no way. Kroenke will sell it all, or nothing, he'd never sell any of it piecemeal. Same for the others.

Those were “dark days”, but only in fan terms. In business terms, TFC in 2013 was a poorly run asset, not an asset whose viability was in question. (btw TFC has probably lost more money 2014-17, than it made 2007-10, but that is for another thread)

Columbus played the second leg in the second round of the playoffs two years ago against Montreal in front of thousands of empty seats. (This wasn't one of the play in games midweek, played on three days notice, that often have empty seats.) That is not what happened in Colorado btw - I looked it up, people showed up and froze their asses for both playoff games last year.

You think we would have big empty sections for a playoff game here? The commentators on that Columbus-Montreal game were openly speculating about the viability of the team.

I do have one big problem with this, and it’s with the idea that no refunds to season ticket holders will be offered. I hope some SSHs there sue the owners ass and win on that.

[jabbronies]

Yes I am with the #savethecrew. I think the American view of "franchises that are the owners plaything" is shite. A promotion relegation system would allow an Austin to work up to the MLS level and if uns-supported Columbus to move to a lower division. Billionaire owners extracting tax subsidy by ransoming their teams is plain wrong. The precedent needs to be stopped. I'd be with a movement to boycot games with the relocated team to send the league the message.

From a selfish perspective...this will either complete demoralize the team and they will be out in the first playoff game...or it will give them some major incentive. I would not like to play them in the play-offs if it goes the way of the latter. The other thing is that is that Columbus is a reasonable road trip distance for Toronto...not so Austin.

It's funny you bring this up - because if there was Pro/Rel in North America - Columbus probably wouldn't exist anymore - they'd probably go into bankruptcy like many team in Europe are going through. Only difference is there are probably not enough people who would care in Columbus if it happened.

[jabbronies]

Another reason I think this is all grandstanding by the league and the owner is to squeeze Columbus is that San Antonio wants a team and its backed by the San Antonio Spurs. IMO I would guess it’s a better sports market and is backed by the best run sports organization in all of NA. Why would they go to Austin with no government help for a stadium and from what I hear no land in the downtown core. Plus there is no way they would put 4 teams in Texas. Also, the owners would be giving up all of that additional revenue that an expansion fee would bring.

Are you speaking on fact with that last comment or just a hunch?

remember this is a single run entity league. If columbus is loosing money - that means all teams are "Loosing" money.

if the additional revenue from expansion that much more to offset years of loses?

[fergiejr]

But hasn't it been us before? (ie Blizzard, Lynx, RoadRunners, Toronto Nationals, etc) If TFC kept bleeding money and season seat holders, MLSE would not have held onto the team. MLSE is not in this for the fans, it is in this for the bucks. Make no mistake about that. Big Tim sold them on the idea of splashing cash and that idea worked.

Toronto is a fickle fanbase, if you don't win no one goes to the games - the Leafs are the exception to that rule.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Um what's all this "stadium is shit" talk?

There are better stadiums now but I was jelly of their real grass first and now I'm jelly of the soccer specific title they've kept the whole time. They even held onto the team name of the stadium for as long as they could.

The location is terrible but as a player it wouldn't be the worst place to play in MLS.

Oh and I felt for Columbites when they put that shitty stage on one side.

[ensco]

The Crew fix the thing that everyone knows they screwed up. How they got this wrong in the first place is inexplicable. Kudos to them for fixing it, I guess

https://www.columbuscrewsc.com/post/...rew-sc-season/

[Oldtimer]

Four four two article, written before the refund announcement. It could happen to any team if attendance drops.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/featu...utm_m_medium=t

[ensco]

Did MLS screw San Antonio over on this? I am not sure whether they have a legal case (did MLS have a duty to disclose the pre-existence of the Austin option?) but it sure seems like they acted in bad faith, at a minimum.

http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...d-12316966.php

[sidvan]

The Crew fix the thing that everyone knows they screwed up. How they got this wrong in the first place is inexplicable. Kudos to them for fixing it, I guess

https://www.columbuscrewsc.com/post/...rew-sc-season/

Seems to me that you would be enhancing Precourt's claims that the Crew are not viable in Columbus if you are not supporting the team by asking for a refund for 2018.

[Initial B]

They're saying on Big Soccer that they have 17,000 tickets sold for the game tonight, but there has been ZERO advertising by the Crew Organization - all the interest is being drummed up by the fans. And who's idea was it to schedule for Hallowe'en night?! It's like the ownership *wants* them to fail. It's really weird.

[Oldtimer]

But hasn't it been us before? (ie Blizzard, Lynx, RoadRunners, Toronto Nationals, etc) If TFC kept bleeding money and season seat holders, MLSE would not have held onto the team. MLSE is not in this for the fans, it is in this for the bucks. Make no mistake about that. Big Tim sold them on the idea of splashing cash and that idea worked.

Toronto is a fickle fanbase, if you don't win no one goes to the games - the Leafs are the exception to that rule.

It's a misconception that the Blizzard were losing money. The Blizzard made money, at least as long as they were in the original NASL, it's just that their league disappeared out from under them.

[denime]

Columbus is pathetic and crew should move. Watching their playoff vs NYCFC and stadium is half full/empty. If they really want their team to stay they should sellout playoff game

That team/players deserve better support,this is joke

[OgtheDim]

They had what....4 days to sell this game? And its Hallowe'en. Sure, we got 28K last year for the equivalent game, but that was on a Sunday night, not Hallowe'en & TFC had been selling that playoff round game for weeks.

Does anybody seriously think Precourt is putting anything into marketing right now?


And, to be frank, I think there are maybe 4 franchises that will sell out a mid week playoff game - us, Atlanta, Seattle & Portland.

[Canary10]

Columbus is pathetic and crew should move. Watching their playoff vs NYCFC and stadium is half full/empty. If they really want their team to stay they should sellout playoff game

That team/players deserve better support,this is joke

Red Bulls should move too if playoff attendance is the metric. Ottawa anyone?

[noimpactinmtl]

Reports are saying long lineups at Mapfre, half the gates are closed and no wands for security. Thorough padding down and getting into the stadium is borderline impossible.

[Ultra & Proud]

Red Bulls should move too if playoff attendance is the metric. Ottawa anyone?

Red Bull Arena was way more empty and way more sad than Columbus. I agree with you. By those metrics you might as well empty out that stadium in the off season and move them to Nashville.

[spe18]

They had what....4 days to sell this game? And its Hallowe'en. Sure, we got 28K last year for the equivalent game, but that was on a Sunday night, not Hallowe'en & TFC had been selling that playoff round game for weeks.

Does anybody seriously think Precourt is putting anything into marketing right now?


And, to be frank, I think there are maybe 4 franchises that will sell out a mid week playoff game - us, Atlanta, Seattle & Portland.

Vancouver had close to a sell out in their mid week game last week. And Montreal had a sell out too mid week last year

[glaze]

From what I remember we didn't sell out the playoffs until the semi final last year. For sure sections were empty for the Philly game.

[Ultra & Proud]

From what I remember we didn't sell out the playoffs until the semi final last year. For sure sections were empty for the Philly game.

Yeah but there was still 20K+.

[ryan]

Columbus is pathetic and crew should move. Watching their playoff vs NYCFC and stadium is half full/empty. If they really want their team to stay they should sellout playoff game

That team/players deserve better support,this is joke

Lots of comments on social media proving they made stadium entry a slow painful process.

Precourt did this on purpose.

The crowd filled in pretty well for a Tuesday/Halloween.


Looking forward to TFC filling more seats at MAPFRE and generating elevated atmosphere in the east final.

[PizzaEatingYeti]

And, to be frank, I think there are maybe 4 franchises that will sell out a mid week playoff game - us, Atlanta, Seattle & Portland.

True that... just look at this first leg of 2nd round playoffs matches:
Except the Vancouver game, the 3 other stadiums where at best just half full!

Anyways, this is pathetic for MLS, because in all the other 4 pro American sports any playoff game is a sellout, no matter at all what day of the week and at what hour are they played.
This is a very strong proof that MLS playoffs are viewed in a totally different manner than playoffs for those 4 "main" sports.

Hey MLS, what the hell you'll going to do about this situation in future editions?
Around the World I guess a lot more footy fans are tuning into MLS when it's playoff time, and seeing these empty looking stadiums makes MLS look a more Mickey mouse league than what in reality it is.

[paul-collins]

Anyways, this is pathetic for MLS, because in all the other 4 pro American sports any playoff game is a sellout,

Red Wings? Braves?

[theaub]

The Red Wings and Braves were both, in part, because of playoff fatigue - not the case in these situations.

Just absolutely disastrous scheduling from MLS for this round IMO. Going up against MNF/WS can't be any better for ratings than going up against the struggling NFL, and early weeknight games are always going to draw far worse than weekend games which reflects poorly for anyone watching on TV. I somewhat understand the mid-week schedule for the conference finals when you have a couple of weeks to sell tickets.

MAPFRE looked far more full than RBA or Houston - feel like they may be sandbagging the attendance a bit.

[ag futbol]

I know the sad reality is TV time slots rule the day when it comes to scheduling (along with the international schedule). However, I think between the rise of alternative methods of distribution and MLS’s younger fan base will be in a good position one day to stick to a consistent time slots.

Take the NFL for example. I don’t even care to watch but I could recite from memory every time slot they play within a week. That had a lot of value in terms of building viewership.

For MLS to continue to grow, they will have to on air at the same time as some bigger draws. It’s inevitable.