I think Vanney’s candidacy for being the next USMNT coach is actually a little cloudier now.
I think he was the lead horse to go in post WC 2018, but they’ll move earlier than that now, and Vanney’s special relationship with Bradley and Altidore doesn’t matter anymore.
There is of course a scenario where both Bez and Vanney go to the USMNT together right away, and give them total control. Seems unlikely though.
Last edited by ensco; 10-11-2017 at 02:20 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I keep hearing this argument about soccer not getting elite US athletes. If you're talking about people from the track world maybe. But the other team sports aren't going to supply many soccer players. NFL and NBA players aren't built for an endurance sport like soccer. I've seen the marathon and half marathon times of so-called elite athletes from the NFL. I've beaten them soundly over those distances. Soccer players are built more like endurance runners. I just don't buy this argument.Originally Posted by ensco
I don't think it's many football players but I absolutely 100% think most basketball, baseball and hockey players could play soccer.
There are a lot of guys who are 6’3” in the NBA who could play soccer. Russell Westbrook would have been a devastating soccer player. Steve Nash.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Watch the video and you will see what Twellman's opinion is on this matter, around 3:50 and I agree with him 100%.
Twellman: There's an arrogance in U.S. soccer
FWIW, only names I've seen mentioned so far were Tata Martino and Peter Vermes form ESPN, and Tab Ramos, Caleb Porter, and Martino again from CBS Sports.....
I can't see a manager who needs to be working with players everyday wanting an NT job - that's why older guys tend to take the job.
I think its Vanney for 2030.
That and if you look at the names mentionned by the US intelligentsia, its all US based coaches. The bias against anybody from outside the US is almost as strong as the bias against non English managers for England.
*****
As for Twellman & Lalas et al. - American exceptionalism runs deep in places most of us wouldn't think of - US Soccer needs a dose of watching and enjoying what they are not involved in.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 10-11-2017 at 04:06 PM.
I wonder if Manning is a candidate for Gulati’s job. He should be
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I'd put the US on about the same level as the English National team...around 10-15th in the World but with a huge market. One WC is hardly a calamity, heck England missed out in 1974, 1978, and 1994. If they want to compete then they just have to eliminate the salary cap in MLS & put a cap on imported players. It would draw far more elite American athletes. I played basketball for my high school along side Tim Flowers (Blackburn Rovers and England goalkeeper). He could play at the top level at any sport. You see a lot of kids in Ontario playing both hockey and soccer until they hit 16 and have to make a choice. Top male athletes follow the money.
Top *rich* kids choose Hockey. us plebs tick to soccer because it costs significantly less. Even then though, if you're not scouted and picked up by Woodbridge, Ajax, Vaughan, Dixie, Sigma etc etc etc. by the time you're sixteen it's unlikely you'll get scouted by anyone. Even Colleges. It's a poor system, really.
Iceland has qualified, I wonder if they know we have borrowed their signature chant?
There is no way the US is anywhere near England. That is the delusion that is the root of the US problem. They act like that's who they are, but they aren’t.
We had an interesting thread about where TFC rank in world soccer - consensus was that we are about 150th in the world. Ex Pulisic, who plays for Dortmund, a top 25-50 team, TFC is the best team that better US players feature for.
It's not close. England probably have 10-15 guys like Pulisic who feature for teams in the top 25-50 in the world.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I think you're conflating being good or bad as opposed to underachieving or overachieving. England, player by player, are for sure better than the U.S. they're also significantly overrated by their press. I'm not sure they have even one attacking player as talented or promising as Pulisic is.
The U.S. tend to overachieve at tournaments while England significantly underachieve. Basically as simple as that.
Or if they know they weren't the first to use it.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Understatement of the decade.
Resources go where the money is, and that's hockey.
Soccer in Canada is a mess, and remains that way because not enough light is shining on the system nationally.
It's not just resources either. Tons of former pro players live in Toronto and it's an incredibly insular group. The boys club nature of high level youth hockey in this city is nuts. Way worse than it is in this city for soccer.
The last time an English manager coached their team to winning the top level was Howard Wilkinson in 1992 before the Premiership was established. Most of the teams are owned by foreign Billionaires and more than half of the players are foreign. It is an international all-star league that happens to play in England. To look at the real level of English football you need to watch the Championship. MLS is building up and needs to crank up the money to compete. They shouldn't panic.
Who is comparing? I just like Iceland. Island er gott
Disagree. England are performing in line. They just have a sense of entitlement and an overwrought media.
They have made it to the final 14 out of 16 times. There can't be more than 7 or 8 countries that have that good a record of qualifying.
They have made the quarter finals or better 8 times out of the 16. How many countries in world football have made the quarters 8 times? It's probably only Brazil, Germany, Italy, and maybe Argentina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englan...FIFA_World_Cup
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I wouldn't necessarily argue with any of that. England have always been at least good enough to sit at the big boy's table. When the tournaments were smaller they were better too - I always think that Gazza teams the late 80's early 90's should have won something. As the tournaments have become easier to qualify for they've simultaneously become worse and worse.
My point was just that guys like John Stones or Raheem sterling aren't particularly great, certainly not Pulisic's level, but they're still better than everything else the Americans have to offer.
If Bruce Arena had Harry Kane or Jamie Vardy, he would have started either over Pulisic.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I'll give you Kane and Alli. Those two are generally world class players atm. Vardy I'm not sold on.
My larger point was that while the U.S. and England frequently perform similarly in the World cup it was for a different reason than them having similarly talented players, which someone up thread inferred.
Yeah I wouldn't disagree with what he said, especially about the level of coaching. Some others have talked about the class bias in American soccer through their "pay to play" model.
I just don't think you will see a lot of 6 foot 5 NBA guys going 12-14 km in a 90 minute game. Hell, little 55 year old Malcolm Gladwell challenged Lebron to a mile race. Lebron won't do it because he knows he'll lose and it would be embarrassing. Those other sports have good athletes for the specific thing they do in their sport but most of those sports don't translate well to an endurance sport.
I'd say no given Pulisic isn't a striker
We've used it (the slow clap) since around 2011, the only thing we've borrowed from Iceland is using a drum to coordinate.
So Arena basically said he did nothing wrong and the USSF is not invovled in player development. Getting embarassing.
Given a year ago people were suggesting we hire this guy, I think we dodged a bullet.
I think much of this is confusing what an athlete has trained for vs. what they are capable of if they trained for the support. Sure, any number of NBA guys referenced weren't trained for soccer but if they were I have a hard time believing they'd be anything but far superior to some recent USMNT stalwarts.
Lets hope CanPL takes relegation/promotion seriously. Obviously the "north american way" of sports doesn't work for soccer
This!
The USMNT which played in the last 2-3 years does not crack the top 25 of the national teams in the world.
Pro Rel is not the issue, at all.
If it was, Scotland would be a powerhouse - every team but Celtic has been relegated lately.
There is absolutely no proven co-relation between pro/rel and MNT success.
What is proven is youth development & coaching is important, and the US had a period prior to 2008 where youth development was really really bad. They have a lost 4 year cohort, now aged 23-27, where hardly anybody got to a decent enough level. They are starting to come out of that (see their U17 success of late).
That and JK was a complete sham when it comes to development of talent at the NT level.
And, as much as people harp on MLS for this stuff, its actually the rise of MLS academies that has led all this down there. Here's hoping that works up here too and that CPL teams recognise the long term investment in academies - I'm not sure they do.
Coach kids properly.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 10-13-2017 at 06:33 AM.
I agree, its the development pathway that leads to national team results, not the organization of the top league in the country. The CPL (whenever it gets started) and its academies will be the last missing piece in the development puzzle, bridging the gap between the Regional Div 3 leagues like L1O and the major NA and Euro leagues.
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