USA eliminated from the World Cup

[Fort York Redcoat]

They’ve been so bad for so long it’s basically treated as an inevitability. Sad but there was little going into this qualifying round suggesting we’d be competitive.

Player development in this country has been extremely awful for about a decade. We’ve been getting comparably worse vs. some other nations in CONCACAF.

Until that gets fixed it’s hard to get excited.

Player development has gone through more change in the last decade than ever before. That's not awful. We needed change. The results aren't good enough but to stop at development = awful is tuning out.

We HAVE got worse vs other nations in CONCACAF. We also have had more announcements over the last years unveiling talent that have declared for Canada. That is a good thing.

Again, admittedly. not good enough. Those announcements were for players that waited to declare and hoped their careers or form would benefit more than the teams. It's still better than no declarations though.

I don't disagree with your excitement level but I'm more in line with Richard.

[Redcoe15]

This thread isn't just relevant for the American stars we have on our club team but for our league that is designed to be a vehicle for American talent. If Canadian talent improves from MLS they don't care. It's why we need our own league below it for the kids from the academies to go to. Not just get in line with the NCAA.

Agree. But two things concern me about this CPL startup. Are owners going to create this league for the right reasons, ie Canadian soccer development, or do they see this as an opportunity to make a fast buck off of the growing popularity of the game here? Some of these potential investors own CFL teams and are might be doing it to fill dates in their stadiums, like Robert Kraft does with the Revs. And do they think they can go head to head with Canadian clubs in MLS and overtake them in popularity because they're seen as more "traditional"? If one and/or two of these are correct, then I fear development of talent from this league will be for not and it will end up killing itself.

[Kaz]

Agree. But two things concern me about this CPL startup. Are owners going to create this league for the right reasons, ie Canadian soccer development, or do they see this as an opportunity to make a fast buck off of the growing popularity of the game here? Some of these potential investors own CFL teams and are might be doing it to fill dates in their stadiums, like Robert Kraft does with the Revs. And do they think they can go head to head with Canadian clubs in MLS and overtake them in popularity because they're seen as more "traditional"? If one and/or two of these are correct, then I fear development of talent from this league will be for not and it will end up killing itself.

It is CFL owners... It will just be a reason to use the stadium a little more so they can get more government handouts down the road. The only hope for the CPL (which still is only theoretical) is enough non CFL ownership groups get involved and make it a true D2 league. (It isn't a D1 league I'm sorry, the CSA can take a flying leap).

First game in 2018? my arse.. no people have been hired, no teams announced really, no players, no coaches.. Nothing. There is no league. Not at the moment.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Agree. But two things concern me about this CPL startup. Are owners going to create this league for the right reasons, ie Canadian soccer development, or do they see this as an opportunity to make a fast buck off of the growing popularity of the game here? Some of these potential investors own CFL teams and are might be doing it to fill dates in their stadiums, like Robert Kraft does with the Revs. And do they think they can go head to head with Canadian clubs in MLS and overtake them in popularity because they're seen as more "traditional"? If one and/or two of these are correct, then I fear development of talent from this league will be for not and it will end up killing itself.

It is CFL owners... It will just be a reason to use the stadium a little more so they can get more government handouts down the road. The only hope for the CPL (which still is only theoretical) is enough non CFL ownership groups get involved and make it a true D2 league. (It isn't a D1 league I'm sorry, the CSA can take a flying leap).

First game in 2018? my arse.. no people have been hired, no teams announced really, no players, no coaches.. Nothing. There is no league. Not at the moment.

I don't know guys. I think a lot of what you're saying can be used to benefit the leagues rivalries. No doubt these teams will be date fillers for CFL stadia but I don't think they will be the only teams in the league. I can only imagine the back and forth between fans of the CFL affiliates and the teams that aren't. This league needs to be larger in number of teams than the CFL and involve as many cities as possible since the quality won't be there for a number of years.

The important part of that is that Canadian kids and players on the cusp of D1 leagues can play and improve.

[TFC Tifoso]

Claudio Reyna with a very scathing analysis of the USSF....
http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/s...r-too-arrogant

Landon Donovan considering a run for USSF President....
http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/s...sidency-source

Seems like the former players, especially from around the 94-98-02 teams, are the most upset about it all, and rightfully so too....these are the players who had the biggest hand in building US Soccer and the NT into what it was before this flame out.
Probably really burns these guys to see the current lot pissing it all away.
I'd like to see what some of the players from that generation could do in some USSF management positions....the certainly seem passionate enough about the whole situation....

[Oldtimer]

Claudio Reyna with a very scathing analysis of the USSF....
http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/s...r-too-arrogant

Landon Donovan considering a run for USSF President....
http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/s...sidency-source

Seems like the former players, especially from around the 94-98-02 teams, are the most upset about it all, and rightfully so too....these are the players who had the biggest hand in building US Soccer and the NT into what it was before this flame out.
Probably really burns these guys to see the current lot pissing it all away.
I'd like to see what some of the players from that generation could do in some USSF management positions....the certainly seem passionate enough about the whole situation....

Gulati is part of the Old Boys club that has run everything throughout the FIFA world (I'm not saying that he was involved in the corruption that Warner and Co. were involved in). He's never played professionally. While he's done a lot for US soccer, it's time to turn over this bunch in favour of new ideas to bring things to the next level.

[TFC Tifoso]

Gulati is part of the Old Boys club that has run everything throughout the FIFA world (I'm not saying that he was involved in the corruption that Warner and Co. were involved in). He's never played professionally. While he's done a lot for US soccer, it's time to turn over this bunch in favour of new ideas to bring things to the next level.

yes I agree....and I totally get the arrogance part; it is something I thought of straight away after their elimination as well.
Twellman, Donovan (in an interview I heard on Siruis/XM 85 with Brian Dunseth), and now Reyna have all used the exact same word "arrogance"....makes you wonder how tense it really is/was between the players and USSF management.
Could it be possible that the players sandbagged the qualification knowing it was the only way to make any changes to the system?? Crazy conspiracy, I know, but seeing just how upset former players are, it makes me think.
Sure, current players won't say much but the older guys in the player fraternity may be speaking on their behalf....

[fergiejr]

yes I agree....and I totally get the arrogance part; it is something I thought of straight away after their elimination as well.
Twellman, Donovan (in an interview I heard on Siruis/XM 85 with Brian Dunseth), and now Reyna have all used the exact same word "arrogance"....makes you wonder how tense it really is/was between the players and USSF management.
Could it be possible that the players sandbagged the qualification knowing it was the only way to make any changes to the system?? Crazy conspiracy, I know, but seeing just how upset former players are, it makes me think.
Sure, current players won't say much but the older guys in the player fraternity may be speaking on their behalf....

I think that's a reach, but it also could be that their heart wasn't in it. You would have to think that some of the older guys might not see another WC and wouldn't want to tank this tournament. Guys like Dempsey, Bradley and Altidore would become (or in the case of the latter two, continue to be) targetted by fans that were not happy - maybe costing them another appearance.

I did joke with my wife though, saying that Bradley and Altidore tanked it so they could remain with us more next year...

[TFC Tifoso]

I think that's a reach, but it also could be that their heart wasn't in it. You would have to think that some of the older guys might not see another WC and wouldn't want to tank this tournament. Guys like Dempsey, Bradley and Altidore would become (or in the case of the latter two, continue to be) targetted by fans that were not happy - maybe costing them another appearance.

I did joke with my wife though, saying that Bradley and Altidore tanked it so they could remain with us more next year...

ya, I totally understand it could be a reach, but just my thought seeing the comments coming out, and how similar they are....
It would be really easy for these former players to say something like "oh we did our best while we were there, blah, blah, blah", or go all Lalas on the current group of players, but most of these guys are PISSED OFF at the association, with little to no mention of the players, aside from the orange-haired one.

[vortexdr]

Meh, hard to feel for them after they kicked Klinsman out for no good reason. The man that basically made the German national team what it is today...What do they do instead, put a Sunday league level manager in charge. Now average players like Donovan opening their mouth....

[molenshtain]

Meh, hard to feel for them after they kicked Klinsman out for no good reason. The man that basically made the German national team what it is today...What do they do instead, put a Sunday league level manager in charge. Now average players like Donovan opening their mouth....

This is quite the take.

[TheGoodson]

Meh, hard to feel for them after they kicked Klinsman out for no good reason. The man that basically made the German national team what it is today...What do they do instead, put a Sunday league level manager in charge. Now average players like Donovan opening their mouth....

Really????

The Germans are what they are due to failing to make a tournament (I think it was Euro 92) and as a result had a reset for all of the clubs regarding their youth set up (Similar to what Hockey Canada did after the 98 Olympics)... Secondly it is widely known that he is not a details guy and Low was the mastermind and hence the dominance we have seen since.. Also, spend a little time reading up on how much of a disaster he was a coach of Bayern Munich (I think he lasted 6 months). Or just look at the fucking mess his consulting was with the TFC Winter/Mariner experiment...

He is/was no savior and no better than any of the USMNT coaches before him... Bob Bradely had the most successful run in a world cup, so think about that

[ensco]

This "Germany reset" story has always been pretty ripe. We had a thread on that in here a few years back. Germany had a bad Euro 2000, but give me a break. They were, are and always have been an effing world powerhouse, this idea that they did some grand strategic top-to-bottom rework is just mostly made up.

[molenshtain]

This "Germany reset" story has always been pretty ripe. We had a thread on that in here a few years back. Germany had a bad Euro 2000, but give me a break. They were, are and always have been an effing world powerhouse, this idea that they did some grand strategic top-to-bottom rework is just mostly made up.

Well there's a very good book about it by rafa honigstein that would argue differently. Germany were not good for most of the 90's and their club set ups were growing increasingly vulnerable to situations like the one Dortmund had around the turn of the century. They reshaped their clubs and spent a ton on getting better coaches from the top down. Without the reshape there's a strong possibility that Germany would look a lot more like Italy or England the Dutch in terms of talent and infrastructure, rather than being a cut above them as they currently are.


On the other hand, the old adage rarely lies: "football is a simple game. 22 players kick the ball around for 90 minutes and at the end Germany wins."

[TheGoodson]

This "Germany reset" story has always been pretty ripe. We had a thread on that in here a few years back. Germany had a bad Euro 2000, but give me a break. They were, are and always have been an effing world powerhouse, this idea that they did some grand strategic top-to-bottom rework is just mostly made up.

Agreed, but as I stated that the Hockey Canada summit after the Nagano Olympics is the same thing... What they (Germans) did was an emphasis on spending more money on youth development, it wasn't anything radical, but a reset... They didn't reinvent the wheel etc.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Meh, hard to feel for them after they kicked Klinsman out for no good reason. The man that basically made the German national team what it is today...What do they do instead, put a Sunday league level manager in charge. Now average players like Donovan opening their mouth....

Klinsmann. Great player. Lucky coach. Luck only gets you so far. I wonder what we could've got instead of his consultation for TFC.

[Initial B]

From what I understand, it wasn't Klinsmann's coaching that made the German National team good, it was that he let his assistant (now head coach) Joachim Low make the tactical formations.

[ensco]

Hey, look who has something to say about all this.....

https://www.socceramerica.com/public...yer-devel.html

[Canary10]

Hey, look who has something to say about all this.....

https://www.socceramerica.com/public...yer-devel.html

Hmm. Doesn't sound like the incompetent leader he was made out to be by some when he was let go at TFC.

[ensco]

Hmm. Doesn't sound like the incompetent leader he was made out to be by some when he was let go at TFC.

Yeah, I always liked Bob Gansler

;-]

(in case you didn't, scroll down)

[Hamilton_Red]

and....there is Italy knocked out of the World Cup. Cue a lot of navel gazing about the state of Serie A. Is the league holding the National team back? The poor state of Italian player development etc...

[Canary10]

Also will the entire country turn on Buffon?

[StokeciTFC]

Also will the entire country turn on Buffon?

No, but the situation with Buffon in no way resembles that of anyone in the USMNT.

There will be an enormous amount of merda thrown at almost everyone else, though.

[Blindside16]

Also will the entire country turn on Buffon?

Doubtful, Buffon is practically a God over there plus it's not his fault Italy couldn't muster a goal over 180 minutes.

[Derko]

and....there is Italy knocked out of the World Cup. Cue a lot of navel gazing about the state of Serie A. Is the league holding the National team back? The poor state of Italian player development etc...

Kind of like the EPL, does nothing for England international soccer, nor does it ever intend too.

[whositwhatnow]

Also will the entire country turn on Buffon?

no way, hell if he decided to run for president he'd probably win. He was the heart of that italian team.

[Canary10]

Doubtful, Buffon is practically a God over there plus it's not his fault Italy couldn't muster a goal over 180 minutes.

Yeah.

Just imagine if Canada didn't make the World Cup? Omg.

[C.Ronaldo]

no way, hell if he decided to run for president he'd probably win. He was the heart of that italian team.

Buffon is not just the heart of the Italian team, he is all thats good about soccer, an ambassador for the game

[TFC Tifoso]

Also will the entire country turn on Buffon?

Why would they?.....none of this is on him....if anything, from what I've read so far there is nothing but sympathy for him, with this failure being his last image in an Azzurri shirt....imo it is squarely on Ventura and the FIGC....

and....there is Italy knocked out of the World Cup. Cue a lot of navel gazing about the state of Serie A. Is the league holding the National team back? The poor state of Italian player development etc...

Kind of like the EPL, does nothing for England international soccer, nor does it ever intend too.

bingo....

[Canary10]

Why would they?.....none of this is on him....if anything, from what I've read so far there is nothing but sympathy for him, with this failure being his last image in an Azzurri shirt....imo it is squarely on Ventura and the FIGC....





bingo....

I wasn't suggesting they should. I was really just criticizing US supporters for their treatment of Jozy and Michael. Thus why it's in this thread.