Always a primary Ontario Conservative Party motive. Apart from destroying Toronto, that is. Sometimes the two can be combined.Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto
Hey, look on the bright side - we can hit the Ontario Place Spa after a match.
Always a primary Ontario Conservative Party motive. Apart from destroying Toronto, that is. Sometimes the two can be combined.
Hey, look on the bright side - we can hit the Ontario Place Spa after a match.
Last edited by los sonadores; 03-30-2023 at 07:48 PM.
Its not going to be a casino...yet.
Ontario place & the ground around it will become a "day spa".
Without getting into the details, they are going to put a 5 story parking garage under a 10 story tall building over there. The day spa is getting control of the grounds "in perpetuity" meaning forever...which means Ontario is basically signing over the land to whomever owns that contract forever.
BTW, that construction on that thing is going to go on during the WC...enjoy the mess.
Once the day spa dies (because it only makes money if 10K per day go there & I don't think 10k of people per day are going to go for a spa & a waterslide), that contract and the building can be turned into whatever the highest bidder wants.
Oh look....a casino.
Anyhoo....by that time there will be a subway up to the Science Centre from the Ex & the WC will be 10 years ago so....
I think that the casino was the previously proposed plan now become “spa” as default measure. It sounds a bit like highway 407… very much ain’t public.
A terrible idea worth opposing. And there will be plenty of opportunities to oppose. Josh Matlow, who was at the Canada match, has spoken out against the development very directly. Difficult not to remember that we owe our existence partly to David Miller who was of a similar mindset.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...ontario-place/
Last edited by los sonadores; 03-31-2023 at 03:01 AM.
They should take ideas from the Mission Rock Development in SF.
I previously lived in SF for 5 years, and this area similar to the EX was just a huge parking lot beside Oracle field on the water. They are now building into a vibrant community with parks, work, etc.
https://missionrock.com/a-shared-vision/
It should be noted that a big parking lot in the EX is already getting built on with this:
https://overactivemedia.com/venue/
https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2022/07...heritage.48565
Last edited by SenorDingDong; 03-31-2023 at 12:40 PM.
San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Boston, Chicago, Vancouver, even Montreal... all of them have done major waterfront revamps.
To fix this, Toronto needs to secede from Ontario, because Ontario controls all the purse strings, and all the waterfront lands.
For 40 years, we have been fumbling around, lurching left, lurching right, with billions of dollars of un-utilzed or under-utilized waterfront real estate, from the Beach to the Credit. Nothing ever happens, nothing gets done, because the way electoral math works at Queens Park, money isn't spent/invested in Toronto, it is collected there, and spent/invested elsewhere.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Very true.
There's already many event venues there, from large and small. I'm not sure they'd benefit from another one.
The south centre (3B) entrance looked very poor from the second deck - with only 2 scanners - though I heard Gate 3 and Gate 4 weren't as bad.
I went through Gate 1 (northeast corner); it seemed longer than it should to me - but it only took about 5 minutes. But plenty of scanners there.
Last edited by nfitz; 03-31-2023 at 07:06 PM.
Has it begun? Are the ‘circuses’ setting up their tents?
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...world-cup.html
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 04-12-2023 at 07:40 AM.
That article was very...vague - and very dependent upon the impact of one phrase in the opinion of a Brock prof. The idea that the current crop of city employees could put together a world cup venue acceptable to the world is...laughable.
BUT, the idea the MLSE gets to recoup losses due to relocation from WC revenues is something that should not have happened - that one is on John Tory.
I don't see a backlash against the WC happening here.
***********
What I DO see of note is only $25 million in upgrades to the stadium - that's not enough in my mind for a full revamp of the West side let alone the needed North End rethink. I suspect we get a slightly redone press area and a temp north stand & that's about it. I would have been happier if MLSE had decided to put in $25 million of their own money to make the venue up to 2026 standards. But then again, we only got free wifi this year so.....
While I agree, I will add one exception. Waterfront Toronto has done some amazing work over the years with more to come. They are one organization that seems to function well and deliver good results.
https://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/
It's a bad look from MLSE, but if you can bring the full force of your government-granted duopoly in telecommunications to pry a deal out of the city I guess you go and do it. Sucks we won't get a more modernized stadium out of this. It's going to look embarrassing to the world.
Yeah I agree. The Portlands flood-proofing project is well on its way to being completed next year. The new Villiers Island will be done, the new river flowing, the parks established. The new Cherry Street-Lakeshore intersection is almost done, they just installed the traffic lights a few weeks ago. The southern Cherry street bridge is operational. We'll still need to do the building on the island, but the work to get it to a stage to build on is nearly finished. It'll be a jewel for Toronto.
I mainly hate that everything here is temporary, what a waste. There's so much work that could be done to BMO and this is a great excuse to do it but they're cheaping out again
Yeah it's a big wasted opportunity.
Anybody surprised? MLSE do the bare minimum in running this team. Having two highly paid designated players doesn't count.
No vision, no leadership.
They have both of these though. The vision is to get the city & tax payers to pay for everything while giving MLSE half the profits. The leadership is whoever MLSE had talk Tory into this. By the sounds of this deal, if those two were in an office when this deal was made then Tory for sure wan't the leader.
There is clearly a story still to be told about John Tory’s relationship with Rogers/MLSE…
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Most of its already known
Ex CFL head honcho
Ex Rogers exec
On board of Rogers until became mayor
As mayor, still receiving 100K a year from Rogers for consultancy including executor of Ted's estate
Used Rogers provided notes when Rogers/Jays complained about use of Lakeshore West on weekends last year
Recent employee he had affair with (i.e. harrassment) went on to work at MLSE on the World Cup project while in relationship with mayor
Last edited by OgtheDim; 04-12-2023 at 03:46 PM.
TFC should have a modern 40K soccer specific stadium nicely enclosed, safe standing etc.
MLSE can easily afford to foot the bill.
The tax payer shouldn't be on the hook for a cent for the temporary upgrades. I'm so fucking tired of these corps waiting for government handouts.
The city owns the stadium, not MLSE. So it's not a handout; it's upgrading its own facility. The sweetheart deal -- and they're not uncommon for large events like the Olympics and World Cup -- is to replace lost revenue during the event. Part of that is likely justified, because FIFA hosting agreements usually include FIFA getting portions of stadium revenue.
As MLSE's use agreement with the city includes stadium revenue...
Having it cover other potential losses outside of those that are venue specific is the real sweetheart part of this. (And having it built for them in the first place, justified by it being a "National Soccer Stadium".)
Now, having said all that, MLSE could easily afford to build its own football-specific stadium. When it had the feds, city and province kick-in, it was making a $10M investment in a relatively shaky league. It also got the immediate benefit of city land -- the biggest cost to it in this if it wanted to build its own from scratch probably wouldn't even be the construction bill, but the cost of buying up that much of urban Toronto, barring some sort of free "life lease" with the city (which in itself would limit their capital acquisition and financing options, I imagine).
I think it's possible there is more.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Based on information out there but that will never be reported about other high elected officials in this province, I concur.
The City owns the stadium, not MLSE.
I believe MLSE agreed to pay for the majority of the last $120MM renovation (i.e. east upper deck and roof), despite not owning the building.
Last edited by wopchop; 04-12-2023 at 05:08 PM.
It should be noted there is no final agreement yet - this is only negotiations. In theory, MLSE could put more in then the $25 million.
Let's not forget opposed municipal supplied broadband. No conflict of interest there...
And we imagine we live with fair, corruption-free government unlike, say those in South America or Eastern Europe. The Tories talk ‘fiscal responsibility’ but so often do wasteful corruption.
And it’s typical that our mayor is out of office not because of his politics but because of his love life (although even that had dubious business connections!). Sigh…
For those who like deeper dives on how/why Toronto became a “sprawl” city, this podcast is excellent…. It is a different take on how Toronto went wrong (hint: fear of immigrants had an interesting impact)
https://99percentinvisible.org/episo...issing-middle/
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
As far as mayors go, Miller was honest and really cared about the city. Toronto taxpayer's didn't like his spending though and wanted low, low, taxes so voted next for Rob Ford (I can't even comment what a disaster that was).
I don't begrudge MLSE not paying for the WC upgrades. TFC won't really benefit from them as they are temporary, and MLSE already paid for upgrades to the city-owned facility to cover TFC's needs.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
If anybody in the government and at MLSE had any vision at all they would realize how monumental a moment it is to have Canada at a home world cup playing in a new state of the art stadium(40k is even enough). It could be another 30 years before we have another world cup in Canada.
The 2026 world cup needs the same nationalistic energy that the Vancouver Olympics had. Really none of these dinosaurs understand the magnitude of a World Cup is, or what even a semi competitive Canadian team could do for this country.
The World Cup is much bigger than the Olympics.
Since soccer is supported mostly by younger people and new Canadians, unfortunately the old school Boomers and Gen Xers in charge don't see the value of it.
I only got into it because my father came from Europe. Most people of my generation were into baseball as a summer sport.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
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