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  1. #61
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    More renderings of BMO for people that haven't seen it. https://www.bmofield.com/assets/doc/...d459387ee4.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by sn0re View Post
    More renderings of BMO for people that haven't seen it. https://www.bmofield.com/assets/doc/...d459387ee4.pdf
    Looking at the south end new set of bleachers, it doesn't look like they would be temp. There's some king of structure at the bottom that goes as high as the current concourse. Unless the stands would be sitting temporary on top of that newly build structure and would be removed possibly making a large south end "beer garden" like area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Looking at the south end new set of bleachers, it doesn't look like they would be temp. There's some king of structure at the bottom that goes as high as the current concourse. Unless the stands would be sitting temporary on top of that newly build structure and would be removed possibly making a large south end "beer garden" like area.
    Isn't that essentially how it was built in 2016? Or whenever that was (I can't even remember the year now, I think it was in place for our first MLS Cup Final)?
    Last edited by Canary10; 06-23-2022 at 02:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sn0re View Post
    More renderings of BMO for people that haven't seen it. https://www.bmofield.com/assets/doc/...d459387ee4.pdf
    Thanks, that was a good find!

    I'm still not convinced by the stadium, but the whole area will make a great fan fest zone. Very exciting!

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    That North side, with the space for the football field, looks more permanent - the one drawing with a concourse level adds to the effect.

    10K on the south - 7.754K on the north.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Isn't that essentially how it was built in 2016? Or whenever that was (I can't even remember the year now, I think it was in place for our first MLS Cup Final)?
    Sort of but that was just scaffolding with flag / tarp material draped over it. I heard a few people say it definitely won't be just a scaffold skeleton with plastic seats on top but who knows?

    I still think MLSE will try to squeeze more money from the government to avoid embarrassment or try to wrangle something for them, like being allowed to build a condo where the Food Building is in exchange for going all out on the stadium. One thing I know about MLSE is that they like to show off and flaunt. This rendering and whole plan doesn't have the "show off-ness" I would have expected from them with an event of this magnitude on the world's stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Sort of but that was just scaffolding with flag / tarp material draped over it. I heard a few people say it definitely won't be just a scaffold skeleton with plastic seats on top but who knows?

    I still think MLSE will try to squeeze more money from the government to avoid embarrassment or try to wrangle something for them, like being allowed to build a condo where the Food Building is in exchange for going all out on the stadium. One thing I know about MLSE is that they like to show off and flaunt. This rendering and whole plan doesn't have the "show off-ness" I would have expected from them with an event of this magnitude on the world's stage.
    I think those renders Snore posted are the plan. There really isn't much more they can do than this in four years. If the north end was permanent, steep, and if they could add the same roof, I think it would be great for us. It's never going to compare with what they've built in Qatar, but maybe having already existing, lower key stadiums that weren't built on slave labour and thousands of deaths is appealing in itself?

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    is it possible they could change the north or the south end to a safe standing stand down the road

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    That North side, with the space for the football field, looks more permanent - the one drawing with a concourse level adds to the effect.

    10K on the south - 7.754K on the north.

    The rendering shows that video board removed. I guess It has to be permanent if they are willing to remove that screen. Letís just hope that a roof is in the works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sn0re View Post
    The rendering shows that video board removed. I guess It has to be permanent if they are willing to remove that screen. Letís just hope that a roof is in the works.
    I agree with you. I really hope the lower bowl part of the north end is permanent and a roof on top would make bmo look amazing

    I also thought for sure they would add more boxes on the west side to complete the top
    Last edited by nick.mastro; 06-23-2022 at 05:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Thanks, that was a good find!

    I'm still not convinced by the stadium, but the whole area will make a great fan fest zone. Very exciting!
    The water mark does say itís preliminary so itís not final. I just hope someone is willing to bust Bill Manningís balls and ask some serious questions about the future of the stadium beyond Ď26. Safe standing? Permanent north stands with roof? More toilets? Yes please.

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    One thing MLSE really likes to do is NOT be the sole builder/owner of stadiums and other facilities.

    They let the Raptors build the ACC - now Scotiabank Centre - then bought the Raptors together with the arena, and made minor changes, so the primary colour scheme was still Raptors (and some details of the arena were not ideal for hockey).

    Coca-Cola Coliseum (former Ricoh) was built by the City / CNE, then renovated extensively for hockey by the City and an investment firm (Borealis). MLSE only leases it for the Marlies, bringing a return for the investors.

    MLSE built and owns the OVO Athletic Centre, but it's located on leased public land, and the City will take ownership of the building after 20 years. In addition, as part of the deal, the facility is available for community use during the majority of daytime and evening hours. People know how much land near downtown Toronto is worth.

    MLSE let somebody else be the primary builder of an inexpensive BMO Field, contributed a bit to the construction costs, and got management & usage rights for the stadium in return. The City owns it. MLSE invested more in BMO Field at other times, always in smaller increments, and always for specific purposes and specific benefits. Expansion for the WC will again be a mishmash of funding and responsibilities -- and as always, with low risk for MLSE.

    Every other facility used by MLSE and its teams has similar complicated terms of construction, ownership, lease, usage, management, etc: Ford Performance Centre; BMO Training Ground & Academy; Lamport (training ground for the Argos). (They started managing the GM Centre in Oshawa but terminated that deal, and no longer want to be involved with managing facilities that their teams don't use.)

    W/o getting into details, every one of these arrangements seems to be a reasonably good deal for the public, as well providing decent facilities in relatively good locations, at a low risk for MLSE and the public entities involved. A MUCH worse deal for the public was the Dome. (BTW the Dome can no longer be used for soccer due to a number of reasons, especially not for many weeks in the middle of the summer.)

    There is no "investor" that wants to plunk down a bunch of money to build an awesome WC stadium in Canada. Especially when you consider cost of land at a good location (unlike the really, really awful locations of most of those beautiful NFL stadiums). MLSE could do it, if they wanted to, but that's not their style. No Cdn public body is going to blow billions (incl. land) to build something like that in an accessible spot. Have a look at the real public value and "legacy" of most US stadiums, especially the newer and more expensive ones: it's actually a disaster and primarily welfare for the ultra-rich. Have a look at the legacy of the Big Owe and other spots.

    The situation overseas varies a great deal from city to city. And in no case do you have a footy stadium competing with stadiums and arenas in four other professional sports leagues, that are each the best in their sport worldwide. BTW many folks are already grumbling about the other costs of the 2026 WC to the public, which run into hundreds of millions of dollars, all for 10 games. I certainly think that money is worth it; I'm hoping for at least few long-term benefits; but I don't want the public to pay much more for the sport I love. We've got MUCH MUCH bigger problems in the year 2022.


    PS and if footy goes bonkers in Canada in the future, you can still build something better, according to the need at the time. So far the City is still holding on to Exhibition Place. You could put something big in the parking lot south of where BMO Field is now, and tear down the tin can BMO w/o too much hassle. You could also build something big at Downsview, especially now that there's both a subway and a GO Train through there.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 06-23-2022 at 06:57 PM.

  13. #73
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    Those Spainards and Germans!
    Santiago Bernabeu renovation.
    Wow! Many feats on this project.
    And I thought the likes of Mercedes Benz/Atlanta, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium/London and SoFi Stadium/Inglewood-LA were among the exceptional...
    Add this latest to that chain...



    Ahhh... to dream an impossible dream... for BMO.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 09-02-2022 at 06:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Those Spainards and Germans!
    Santiago Bernabeu renovation.
    Wow! Many feats on this project.
    And I thought the likes of Mercedes Benz/Atlanta, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium/London and SoFi Stadium/Inglewood-LA were among the exceptional...
    Add this latest to that chain...



    Ahhh... to dream an impossible dream... for BMO.
    Beautiful stadium. Defiantly something to add on the bucket list.

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    The BMO expansion plans are awful. I hope common sense prevails and a proper reno/upgrade is done. 4 years is more then enough time to do it right.
    Supporting TFC, MLS Champions and the best team in MLS history (and no longer soul sucking), since 2007!

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    It will never happen as long as the Argos are there ! I think thatís even a main reason why we donít have a roof on the North end. I think it canít happen with a CFL game

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick.mastro View Post
    It will never happen as long as the Argos are there ! I think thatís even a main reason why we donít have a roof on the North end. I think it canít happen with a CFL game
    I really fail to see the connection between the argos and how disappointing the expansion stuff is

    I'm mainly salty that Manning keeps promising safe standing randomly every few years then just not mentioning it again until the next time

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    The work they are doing at Anfield at the moment is pretty interesting. They're building a new roof right over the old, which is supposed to come down during the World Cup, and expanding their Anfield Road end in behind the old stands. I really wish this was the approach we were following for the BMO expansion for the World Cup. A proper, permanent north end expansion at the very least.

    https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/1...of-next-phase/

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    The Bread Not Circuses 2.0 discussion has begun...

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-and-hes-right

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    The Bread Not Circuses 2.0 discussion has begun...

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-and-hes-right
    Not to the same extent as the Brazil olympics but I see a future white elephant in a BMO stadium expansion. We love this as soccer fans but why burden the tax paying public so that soccer diehards like ourselves can enjoy just 5 World Cup games

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Not to the same extent as the Brazil olympics but I see a future white elephant in a BMO stadium expansion. We love this as soccer fans but why burden the tax paying public so that soccer diehards like ourselves can enjoy just 5 World Cup games

    is the 5 games confirmed for BMO?

    -read the article- does anyone know will BMO only get 1 canada game- while Vancouver gets the other?
    Last edited by FootBallAZ; 01-27-2023 at 09:05 AM.

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    I believe Canada hosting 10 is confirmed, so and equal split with Vancouver makes that 5 games each

    EDIT: As I understand it, this figure was from the working plan of having 3-team groups and a total of 80 matches. It was rumoured that FIFA was reconsidering 3-team groups. Groups of 4 would result in more group stage matches.
    Last edited by RealG-TFC; 01-27-2023 at 09:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealG-TFC View Post
    I believe Canada hosting 10 is confirmed, so and equal split with Vancouver makes that 5 games each

    EDIT: As I understand it, this figure was from the working plan of having 3-team groups and a total of 80 matches. It was rumoured that FIFA was reconsidering 3-team groups. Groups of 4 would result in more group stage matches.
    Quite a pricey ask of the tax payer for only one Canafa match in Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Quite a pricey ask of the tax payer for only one Canafa match in Toronto
    There is a definitely a debate to be had whether it's worth it. Tory did win re-election handily, and never made a secret of his support for the World Cup in Toronto. So there's that. A lot of the seating to bring BMO up to World Cup capacity will be temporary (unfortunately), so this is never going to end up like a ski jumping facility in Sarajevo. Also this come with waaayyyy less risk than the Vancouver Olympics. If we're going to be a part of a big event, this is actually the lowest risk way to do it tbh.
    Last edited by Canary10; 01-27-2023 at 10:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    The Bread Not Circuses 2.0 discussion has begun...

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-and-hes-right
    Just to clarify, that is coming from an organization that is more "don't spend a single $ on anything we don't want"

    Bread for people has nothing to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Just to clarify, that is coming from an organization that is more "don't spend a single $ on anything we don't want"

    Bread for people has nothing to do with it.
    This is true!

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    How much of the $307M is throw away and how much is it for infrastructure that Liberty Village, the exhibition, BMO Field etc, etc, is going to benefit from. It is a dangerous joke (it is fun though) that we still should be going through the tunnel.

    As it pertains to 1 Canada game, I will go to all 5 games, in fact if I can get seats to a couple of the US venues, I am there. Lets just say we get lucky and get a group with Brazil or Italy (not in our group of course), the city will be a mad house and the tickets will be impossible to get.

    There is a ton of money the Municipal and Provincial Govt’s waste money on, why not as a tax payer cant it be argued for upgrading the whole infrastructure down there. I know there are strong arguments for social programs, which need support, no doubt.

    But there is also a ton of fat, that they could remove before this.

    I can be you one thing for certain, whether PC/LIB or NDP funds it or not, you can guarantee, they will find a way to be guests at the games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    How much of the $307M is throw away and how much is it for infrastructure that Liberty Village, the exhibition, BMO Field etc, etc, is going to benefit from. It is a dangerous joke (it is fun though) that we still should be going through the tunnel.

    As it pertains to 1 Canada game, I will go to all 5 games, in fact if I can get seats to a couple of the US venues, I am there. Lets just say we get lucky and get a group with Brazil or Italy (not in our group of course), the city will be a mad house and the tickets will be impossible to get.

    There is a ton of money the Municipal and Provincial Govt’s waste money on, why not as a tax payer cant it be argued for upgrading the whole infrastructure down there. I know there are strong arguments for social programs, which need support, no doubt.

    But there is also a ton of fat, that they could remove before this.

    I can be you one thing for certain, whether PC/LIB or NDP funds it or not, you can guarantee, they will find a way to be guests at the games.
    There's already a plan to build a new Exhibition Station there as part of the Ontario Line. If we were smart, we'd fast track building that (I think some early works have already been done, or are in the process). Maybe some of the FIFA funding could even support that project. It would be stupid if we couldn't get that station done in time, even if the Ontario Line isn't running yet (which it won't). That would solve the tunnel problem and provide better Go access there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Just to clarify, that is coming from an organization that is more "don't spend a single $ on anything we don't want"

    Bread for people has nothing to do with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    This is true!
    Sure. Just to clarify further. The reference made was itself more as an ironic satirical citation to Roman Poet Juvenal from which their name and intentions were seemingly 'inspired' from; hence the '2.0' addendum. Something that most people could/would relate to. Respect to that actual organization's historical significance. I knew the article's author was Goldberg- Director- CTF. I would argue they are more of a 'don't spend a single $ on anything frivolous/unnecessary' more than a 'we don't want' organization; that notion would be akin to Italian Socialists... 'what is mine is mine and what is yours is ours'. Oddly, later versions of that movement, like NoTO2024, have involved less of the 'professional protestors' and more left and right everydayers-taxpayers including Bay Street types. I would certainly argue that economic and social conditions- wages, inflation, crime, heath care, resources for or access to mental and addiction services, etc... in and around Toronto today are more precarious and likely necessary of attention than ever, even against 30 year ago comparisons. And warrant any emphasis to 'Bread'; just visit any city Food Bank. 'Toronto The Good' has an underbelly; you just need to want to look carefully.

    My explanation aside. I still support this initiative. I do not think the investment and expenditure is excessive nor would be detrimental to our Municipal or Provincial Finances; if managed and executed competently.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-29-2023 at 09:57 AM.

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    A lot of the $300MM is throw-away.


    The cost to temporarily expand BMO capacity is $25MM. Centennial Park & Sunnybrook Park need $15MM for upgrades. There is $40MM earmarked to "upgrade and enhance facilities that will be used as competition, training, and festival venues during the 2026 World Cup period".

    I could not find the security costs in the City report, but I imagine that is a huge portion of the $300MM. It is probably the majority of the cost.

    Security for the G20 cost $605MM for reference, which was security ~10 days.
    Last edited by wopchop; 02-01-2023 at 07:07 PM.

 

 

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