Fuck Seattle.Originally Posted by Joe Kool
Fuck Seattle.
I think we had some favourable outcomes, but in general a more tightly controlled game favours our team and MLS should be looking for its attacking talent to shine through. All and all I don't think there was anything crazy unfair about the officiating.
Their entire attack was putting crosses from the flank into Nick Hagglunds wheelhouse. It was stale, predictable, and easy to defend. They conversely never dealt with Chapman in the midfield and looked vulnerable frequently on the counter. Bradley > Alonso. That's why they lost. They should just count themselves lucky we didn't bring half our starters.
Last edited by ag futbol; 05-07-2017 at 09:16 AM.
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Normally I don't really have any beef with Seattle and their supporters - they do good stuff up there, and they came into the league and did the right things for success right off the bat (turf field aside).
But I'll make an exception to drink some tears with this one, after some of the insufferable smug we endured when they won the Cup by playing the anti-est of anti-football ever, and how brilliant their "strategy" was (that strategy apparently being to not get any shots, have Frei stand on his head more than once, then "strategically" try to win the coinflip that is penalties).
We just beat you with half of our starters in the lineup. Have fun deconstructing our brilliant strategy all week.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
I think Vanney deserves a lot of credit with the way he has been managing the squad so far this season. It can't be easy keeping everyone happy and motivated when we have such a deep squad. Leaving 4 starters at home was a good decision, we have so many games in such a short time period that it's going to be really crucial keeping everyone fresh. I was initially surprised when I saw Giovinco rested but not Altidore, however thinking back to the MLS final and the way they kicked the shit out of Seba I think it made sense leaving him at home. Jozy can take the abuse and dish it back so that worked well in this game.
Any one final thought for those on here who question Jozy's commitment and think he is lazy at times, I don't see that at all and this game he was absolutely immense for the team and worked his ass off. Sometimes forwards need to conserve energy during a game and not go chasing every loose ball so that when the opportunity arises they are ready to strike. Just take a look at Seba in this regards, yes he hustles when required but he also is very smart in conserving energy for all of those lung busting fast runs he makes throughout the 90.
I also like that Vanney is not afraid to try things out and then adjust if it's not working. Case in point Edwards starting on the right side and then switching with Morrow in the 2nd half.
I also like the fact that Cooper is taking a back seat lately. It appears he his not willing to work hard enough for the team plus I hate the way he is always flopping and feigning injury. He did some good work at the end of last season but so far this season I don't think he is offering much to the team. I am a little biased though since I have never really cared for him mainly due to his constant cheating. Kudos for Cheyrou for steeping in and getting Cooper under control at the end of this game. It looked pretty obvious that the Seattle players really hate Cooper and this game was not the time for his antics.
Now 3rd thanks to the Loons. Still work to do - absolutely, but we are getting better.
The "cheating" was to our advantage for once as it served to run out the clock. I think the argument was little more than a ploy for that purpose.
Anyway, I agree he hasn't been great. My concern is not his work rate, which is usually good, it's that he doesn't release the damn ball fast enough. He spends too much time feigning and turning in midfield when there are better options. It's selfishly killed one too many attacks.
Dallas is still the benchmark team this year. Dallas - Toronto final this year @ BMO.
full points on a cross-country road game, against the defending champs, with a less than full roster......just awesome!
cooper's concacaf tactics are disgusting. he's such a punk. shame he lacks the football IQ and any kind of class, because he has some good feet and some skills.
I really disagree. At times we play very naive. Cooper is a guy who works the game, pisses people off. Need a few players like that on your team.
you're probably right. his 'style' just goes against so much of how i was taught to play the game and how to conduct myself, but still you're probably right. i guess it's also one reason why Canada always fails in concacaf.
There's a time and a place to CONCACAF. Cooper was told off earlier in the season publicly (well as publicly as Vanney will do) for going down with a foul and not getting up quick, thus giving up tactical advantage. Cooper did that again on Saturday.
He's useful and very good against a team like Atlanta or NYCFC. I suspect he starts against the Loons.
Yeah I get it. It's hard to watch sometimes.
It's just gamesmanship. After years and years of watching teams pull similar stuff to what Cooper does game after game and watching our team yell into the void to no avail, I'm not at all irritated by Cooper's antics.
Part of learning to be an elite team, which is what we're in the process of right now, involves learning and repeating the gamesmanship required to close out wins and get inside the head of your opponent. It's part of the game. It's not pretty, but if you wanna be the best you gotta be able to do it.
To each their own but I personally can't stand seeing Cooper in our shirt. It bothered me when we'd see Drogba do it, it bothered me when Atlanta were being so over the top earlier this season and Cooper doesn't get a pass on it just because he's wearing our shirt for me. I wish the league would sanction it far more
There's nothing for the league to sanction though. You can't call a player a liar for going down with an apparent cramp late in the game or whatever. It's not the same as going back and disciplining a player for a tackle the ref missed. I'm sure we'd all rather not have it but everyone does it. Better to be better at it than everyone else than be left behind.
sometimes you just gotta be a dick to win. Part of the game sometimes, especially big games. The final last year is a prime example of why it's important for the team to be able to win that side of the game. Seattle did that day and they won in part because of it.
I know it is part of football culture, more in some parts of the world than others, but I don't like watching it but pretty much accept it as part of the game. I don't think it will ever change. It does bother me though when players on the teams I am supporting do it. TFC players don't need to do it to win so I would rather it not happen. Cooper did it alot when he first got here but then he started to play harder and not go down so easy and I thought our culture was rubbing off on him a bit and I respected him more for it. Now it seems he has gone back to the old comfort zone of Panamanian tactics so far this season. Lodeiro was really pathetic as well. His gameplan basically was to get anywhere around the outside of the 18 yard box and when he felt a hand he would go down. Just terrible to watch and to see Seattle get free kicks for that.....and Seattle fans are complaining about TFC players?
Not going to be able to win the CCL without a few players of Coopers ilk
There was a picture on Seba's instagram of him with his feet up and right ankle in an icepack. anyone else hear if he had an injury to keep him at home?
I think it was wise to rest him either way but I was worried he might be pissed to be left off the flight. But if there is an injury issue that will keep my mind calm about his mind going ballistic on a stanchion somewhere.
Great game by Vanney and the boys. Karma giving us a hat tip that it was Torres that brought down Jozy for the PEN.
Great to see Cheyrou looking like a boss out there again as we will need him when the USMT comes a callin for Bradley. Chappman was fantastic, Haggs was a beast and cleaned out everything, ....great performances all around.
I creeped the sounders reddit and while there were some tinfoil hatters hating on the ref most of the comments were about how bad their team was. Was refreshing to see a balanced review of their own bad game when most of what I've seen is them bitching like their players on the field. Good on em. Now if only they would get fired up about being forced to look at that gawdawful plastic pitch every two weeks. just horrid to look at and for their players.
I am totally with Joe Kool and JoesphNdo on this one. The idea that we should try to be better than everyone else at cheating rather than be left behind is not my idea of a soccer team I would want to support. I would much rather win games by playing superior soccer than cheat our ways to win.
Do you think Cooper is being a good teammate when he goes down feigning injury as the play continues putting us under extra pressure? He pulled the stunt on Sat and it was blatantly obvious there was nothing wrong with him and finally one of his teammates picked him up off the floor as if to say get on with the fucking game.
Listen to Caldwell and what he thinks of teammates cheating and diving, he is not in the least bit impressed by it and often calls out Seba for doing it too. The difference with Seba's antics (not that I am condoning them) is that he gets the shit kicked out of him each and every game and it must get pretty frustrating for him which probably leads to him embellishing things on occasion.
I am with you.
There's a difference between cheating and gamesmanship. And it's not an either or in terms of playing the better soccer or having guys like Cooper on the field.
We lost the final because no one went out and figured out a way on the field to get Alonso, Torres and Roldan to stop getting away with kicking us. That needs to be figured out on the field, either through doing it back or by making sure you go down long enough and make a big enough deal out of it that the ref can't ignore it. Like it or not, that's is the game. It's not cheating, it's just part of managing the game.
this stuff also isn't reserved for the Tony Pulis type teams of the world either. All great teams knew how to manage games like that and do what needed to be done to get the win. Even that great Barca team from 5-6 years ago had Puyol, Busquets, Mascherano, Pedro, Dani Alves etc. Guys who could mix it up and get calls and make sure they got the 3 points at the end of the day.
Yes Cooper can over do it a little sometimes. Some of the guys on the team *cough Osorio* Cough* could learn a little about from him though. There's a reason Concacaf teams are notoriously hard to play against. They've turned gamesmanship into an art form. And they do it because it really does help win games.
I didn't really have a problem with Cooper on Saturday. He's our PITA. He knocked a good minute off the 5-minute injury time. Plus I don't think he was always faking it. At least twice I thought he was hacked pretty hard by Seattle players. One of those times I think it was Cooper's own fault, as he lost control of the ball and it drifted a bit too far from him. But I still felt the Seattle player went in more recklessly than necessary.
Seattle was hacking our players quite often, and whining to the ref incessantly about every little call.
I do feel that Cooper's touch has let him down lately. He had pretty good ball control when he arrived last year, but he seems to have lost that on occasion (e.g. the case above where he ended up getting hacked for it). Also his decision making RE when to hold the ball, and when to pass, is hit-and-miss. Some great plays and some really bone-headed ones.
Last edited by Auzzy; 05-08-2017 at 12:41 PM.
The player on our team with the worst reputation for diving is Giovinco.
yup, but also has a huge hack-to-no-call ratio so what are you going to do? The refs make the calls and we probably see less embellishment.
Last edited by Section_105; 05-08-2017 at 01:46 PM. Reason: missing words wrecking meaning.
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/...way-after-wins
Morrow and Vanney in the team of the week, though I definitely would have picked Hagglund instead of Morrow. Feels like they just picked Morrow on reputation after our defensive performance vs. Seattle, but Hagglund was huge in that game and vs. Orlando.
I find that he's regressed since he got here. This season all he seems to do is either dribble into 2-3 defenders or hold on to the ball far too long. I'm not seeing any key passes and the frequency of his diving is an embarrassment. Most of the time he clearly isn't hurt and wastes precious minutes writhing around on the floor while we're defending a man down.
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I'm all for MLS being the first soccer league to come down hard on embellishment and diving. Until that day? I suspect every guy on every team in the league has crumpled to the ground when they really didn't need to, at least once.
As long officials keep allowing it to provide an advantage during games, guys are going to keep doing it.
Even when you look at Jozy's penalty in that game - did he REALLY have no other choice but to fall down there? Or did he go down once he had drawn ample contact for a penalty? We all know the answer to that. But would every other player in the league have done the same thing? Of course.
Messi is one of the few players I've seen, who will routinely just shrug off contact with players that would send other guys theatrically cartwheeling to the ground, grabbing their shins.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
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