euro TV contracts have this as well. scottish soccer almost imploded when rangers had their tax issues and were dropped to div4. the main issue was the massive TV deal that basically finances scottish top flight, they were which guaranteed as certain number of celtic and ranger games.Originally Posted by OgtheDim
I'd find a way out of that one. Negotiate a breakage and move on.
If the option for bridgeview is no soccer or no soccer with a payment they'll choose the latter. The increase in franchise value moving this to the actual city should pay for itself.
Thanks for the attendance numbers, troy. You can sure tell which teams are the top of the table based on stadium size. I'm curious to see the numbers for Bundesliga/Bundesliga2 and Premier/Championship.
As for the new CPL, what they need is cost certainty for the first 8-10 years of its existence. A national TV contract that pays between $8-10 million a year would go a long way towards that goal. I don't think that's far-fetched, especially if you include World Cup broadcast rights in the package. The CFL gets $40 million a year!
Those Ukranian numbers are likely low due to the whole Russia-Ukraine conflict.
But i agree with the overall sentiment of your posts. 14K for Dallas is not a number to scoff at.
Here is the league average for Ukraine for the last 10 years:
2017: 4,230 (Current)
2016: 5,008
2015: 6,143
2014: 10,930
2013: 12,547
2012: 11,309
2011: 9,225
2010: 8,943
2009: 7,574
2008: 8,295
2007: 9,052
2006: 7,838
Also without a salary cap or forced parity, most fans know their team can not challenge for anything so why bother going to games if you know it's futile year after year, decade after decade.
Takes a cup run to get interest - its why big teams have hollowed out local teams in most European countries.
Yep. And look how much those numbers have dropped since shit hit the fan with the annexation of 2014. I know it doesn't detract from your point that Dallas' 14k average isn't terrible when stacked against many Euro leagues. I'm just pointing out that the recent Ukranian numbers are somewhat anomalous.
To you and Og - Sois Serieux!
It's a forkin' racetrack used for a one-off sporting promotion, not a permanent venue for fieldsports. I only used it to illustrate what this potential ownership group in Charlotte are capable of.
I'll put less worm on the hook next time.
EXCEPT that whole track as another sport venue has been discussed before
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...es-auto-racing
Not sure if this is the case any more, but I heard rumours that in the past that Greek teams really underreported attendance numbers (for tax reasons?). They're still pretty low in comparison to MLS (by a lot). Like the PAOK numbers would suggest that they average 1/3 of the stadium per game. Which I don't think is true.
greece do find any way possible to cheat the tax man, it's a national hobby!
and some of these countries the stadiums are in pretty bad shape, including some big countries known for its soccer world wide in places like Italy or Argentina where they are viewed as soccer crazy. Yet again average attendance is much lower then you would of thought and stadiums are in bad need of renovations. In many cases the clubs don't really have the money to combat hooligan gangs, a big reason many countries hooligan activity has gotten worse then England was in the 80s "hay day" of hooligans, in some cases it's even worse then it was in England in the 80s. Yet some how, some of these clubs still would dominate if they were in MLS, how? Even with North American long travel distance it still hard to believe why are our clubs not able to have some of the best skilled teams in the world when you look at attendance numbers.
Last edited by james; 12-31-2016 at 04:04 AM.
In some cases I think some MLS numbers can be a bit skewed tho, wouldn't surprise me if some MLS clubs numbers included many free give aways, FCDallas often looked like 5k-10k fans in the stadium, makes it hard to believe they averaged 14k. Even TFC got crowds like 22k, 23k, 24k, I guess tho 1 sellout 30k changes the average. But overall the stadium looked quite full in Toronto, Places like Chicago, FC Dallas and New England, not so much.
All those places you mentioned has some serious accessibility problems in terms of public transit. FC Dallas has a racketing scheme in guise of a toll road to and from the stadium.
In general public transit is pretty bad in America, very car dependent. I remember recently reading only 6% of Americans use public transit at all, even smaller number for those that actually use public transit daily, compared to 14% in Canada (which was low compared to Europe countries) that were often at 20%, 25%, 30% and up. That said NYC depend on public transit heavily and a city like Chicago have a very large public transit system (Chicago subway system is much larger then Toronto's, and Montreal, however Toronto and Montreal still averages much more average daily passengers then Chicago). It's crazy to think that after New York City, Montreal and Toronto have the most heavily used subway systems in America-Canada, despite some American cities having larger subway systems. Cities like Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Detroit, LA have very poor public transit systems for the large populations, often caused because of sprawling populations rather then densely built populations, and almost all the money in these cities and a long with many other cities in America went into extensive highways and sometimes completely ignored public transit, some cities they even dismantled many cities public transit systems to build for the future life of cars, even some car companies purchased public transit systems to then dismantle them little by little, streetcars in America were scrapped for cars and busses ( ironically many cities have very recently started rebuilding streetcar systems, tho more modern models)
Teams like FC Dallas and New England are going to be completely depending on cars to get to and from the stadium, as they are built way out of the city. It might work well in NFL football where everyone drives to tailgate at the NFL game in a massive parking lot or field, but might not work so well in MLS. That said it may vary from city to city, but overall I think having a club located in the city or by some form of public transit may be more important then compared to say NFL.
Last edited by james; 12-31-2016 at 05:50 PM.
And with southwest NFL venues now offering pre-game skeet shooting ranges and complimentary in-game gun cleaning services, MLS certainly has some marketing challenges ahead in the Trump Era.
^ Agreed, convenience of location is more important to a MLS team comparatively. NFL is the most prominent brand in NA sports and people will drive wherever to see an event if they're interested.
As far as transit goes it depends on the city. It can be "convenient" enough for most without being transit accessible. That's just the way things work down there, as a few posters have pointed out.
do whuh?
is the country one long sitcom?
a ride on the Chicago subway/elevated rust bucket from the airport to downtown is a wake up call to the homeless issues they face.
Most American cities associate transit with low income
that in many cities is the case. Public transit is for the poor, cars are more for the middle and upper class. Often outer suburbs want nothing to do with public transit and refuse to fund it, leaving the transit systems broke, little future expansion plans for public transit (not always the case, but for a good number of cities it is the case).
Toronto has its problems, and arguments "who pays for what" is common, and adding tax issues is a huge argument to be had. The city did turn away from public expansion for a good portion of the 80s and 90s. But a good portion of people today want more public expansion and they want it in there neighbourhoods and it's not just the poor neighbourhoods. And Toronto is working on the biggest public transit expansion in USA and Canada (Ellington line, plus Union renovation plus Subway expansion to Vaughn.). In some Europe cities the poor are those actually further outside of the best public transit routs, people want to be close to a subway.
anyways I am getting more off topic, I guess just slow these days to talk about TFC issues.
AS a crazy and weird this is going to sound and I am sure people will look at me if I am nuts I can see MLS and the New CPL be connected in some form
The only way I could maybe see CPL and MLS joining is by being part of Canadian championship, joining with Edmonton, Ottawa and 3 Canadian MLS clubs (MTL, Tor, Van) like how many lower leagues compete with American clubs from MLS in US Open cup. But being part of MLS regular season and MLS playoffs?.....no way
Last edited by james; 01-05-2017 at 10:45 PM.
Charlotte group headed by Bruton and Marcus Smith - prosperous NASCAR track owners and race promoters - in with a bid:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/new...127847499.html
They are looking for some public funding, but will carry the lion's share of overall costs to get the franchise. They have deep, deep, pockets, solid business credentials and a hugely favourable local profile. With Atlanta coming in, it would be a good choice to develop a local rivalry in an area MLS needs to grow its footprint.
I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of general interest in soccer shown during my visits to the Carolinas. Mebbe coz, back in the day, good ol' Dale Jr. wuzza midfielder afore he went racin'.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 01-23-2017 at 08:12 PM.
Promotion-relegation process for Canadian teams? CPL winner goes up against loser of playoff between two lowest finishing Canadian MLS clubs?
Hard to see MLSE approving this sort of risk to their investment.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 01-23-2017 at 08:17 PM.
Leagues moving into North Carolina have other issues - the reality of the anti-Trans law precludes investment there when there are other options. NWSL is making a mistake but their ownership is more like NASL then MLS.
Bruton Smith'sBillion$ >>>>>>> RuPaul.
The Smith family fortune was created and administered out of North Carolina. Social and political issues won't be a concern. Certainly not in a state that played a key role in electing Trump.
Nor when MLS has Arthur Blank's Atlanta franchise about to kick off in a schwingy new stadium. There's not only a crucial investment to nurture, but an important TV market footprint to grow. A team in Charlotte also helps build appealing southeast regional rivalries for incoming franchises in Florida.
For Atlanta, Charlotte is the ideal place to put another franchise - just over a three hour drive away on a major freeway, facilitating the possibility of supporters groups turning up in numbers in each other's stadium.
They also just elected a Democrat as governor to repeal the bathroom bill because so many businesses were divesting their money from North Carolina. A lot of that money was in sports and entertainment. It definitely will be an issue should the league go forward with this and the bill stays in place.
Wonderful. They're appearing to be appropriately concerned. I don't think this issue would slow MLS from granting a franchise to the Smiths. Let me emphasize again. The Smith billions are already in place in NC and they are willing to privately fund the lion's share of the project. The Blank billions are already in action.
The positives in going to Charlotte are long term and tangible. The social issues are totally transitory.
You do know who's behind the projects in Cinci and Sacramento and Detroit and St. Louis and now San Diego?
Billionaire's isn't the problem.
The key here is local corporate non owner support, shown local support for a team and which TV market adds more to the national TV grid for Fox and ESPN. Carolina has that - just needs to drop the trans bill and all will go well.
If had money on who would be the next 3, it would be on Sacramento, Charlotte, & St. Louis. I don't think Miami gets done, which lets in one of Detroit, Cinci or Tampa.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote