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    Useful map showing the geographical footprint of MLS now and with projected sites. You can see how Atlanta begins to fill in the biggest gap in MLS, due south of DC.



    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 01-26-2017 at 01:29 PM.

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    None of Charlotte(NBA, NFL), Sacramento(NBA) or St. Louis(MLB, NHL) have saturated sports markets to compete with.
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 01-25-2017 at 10:22 AM. Reason: duhbble post

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    Well........Sacramento's stadium proposal is a 2 hour drive from Avaya stadium. Those two teams would both be pulling from the same metro area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Well........Sacramento's stadium proposal is a 2 hour drive from Avaya stadium. Those two teams would both be pulling from the same metro area.
    Not really. People in Sac won't travel to SJ. Too hard to get to. It may seem like a 2 hr drive looking at a map but realistically it's closer to 3 and a half.

    The Sac metro area probably doesn't extend much past Fairfield. Anyone living past that wouldn't be part of the Republic's base.
    Last edited by Miko; 01-25-2017 at 12:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    None of Charlotte(NBA, NFL), Sacramento(NBA) or St. Louis(MLB, NHL) have saturated sports markets to compete with.
    But a St Louis team would have to compete with MLB over the summer. If you were looking at filling Geographic holes and lack of summer sports attendance options, then Nashville would be a better choice. If you are looking purely at TV ratings, then Detroit, Tampa, Sacramento and one of St Louis or Charlotte would get the next 4 slots.

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    charlotte has a ton of competition. college basketball and college football are essentially bigger than pro sports there. Plus their are half dozen big programs within a hour. your competing with 15 teams, not two. it will be like houston/dallas, you will get 3000-8000 at games and never get on local tv newscasts, just too much sports competition.

    st. louis is a cardinals town. its poor for other sports. NBA won't even consider going back.

    sacramento would be better than columbus. sort of like orlando/RSL with low competition
    Last edited by Onyx; 01-25-2017 at 01:34 PM.

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    I have been hearing from some people that FC Cincinnati could be of interest in a future expansion to come into MLS.

    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...dium/96947728/


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    Cinci's problem is its a really small market for National TV and doesn't bring much to the table but a billionaire and a lot of current fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    charlotte has a ton of competition. college basketball and college football are essentially bigger than pro sports there. Plus their are half dozen big programs within a hour. your competing with 15 teams, not two. it will be like houston/dallas, you will get 3000-8000 at games and never get on local tv newscasts, just too much sports competition.

    st. louis is a cardinals town. its poor for other sports. NBA won't even consider going back.

    sacramento would be better than columbus. sort of like orlando/RSL with low competition
    Inaccurate.

    What does exist is hardly a worry. College competition exists in every corner of the USA.

    College football in Charlotte is not a big thing. UNC Charlotte does not draw well - mid-teens at best.

    The big basketball schools are in Raleigh-Durham. NC and NC State are the bigger draws with 16-18k crowds and 16-17 game skeds from late fall to spring. Duke is a boutique with only 9k or so at their fieldhouse. They only really affect the appeal of the Hornets, who enjoy soft, streaky support at best.

    The NFL Panthers draw well, usually north of 70k, and the three main NASCAR events in Charlotte each year pull 100k+ crowds.

    Lots of room in Charlotte's sporting calendar for soccer. Too many positives for MLS to overlook with this locale. The public funding portion of the stadium project is halfway to being granted. The county has approved its $44m contribution, the city is still debating. No shock to learn that Democrats are voting for it, Republicans stand opposed.
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 01-26-2017 at 01:36 PM.

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    And St. Louis committee that had turned down a referendum now rejigs everything with higher tax revenues to take back to the full city council

    (the fact I can find this all on twitter vaguely scares me)

    As somebody said on twitter, it was only mostly dead

    Last edited by OgtheDim; 01-26-2017 at 02:43 PM.

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    They have an old stadium in serious need of repair and refurbishing. That will cost the city many millions, plus on-going upkeep.

    Or they spend around $2 million a year for 20 years and get a completely new facility plus a pro soccer team. The county saw the logic and approved their share. The city has delayed its decision. No doubt, they're going to the billionaire Smith family and looking to get sweeteners.

    The flip side of the equation is that the Smiths can always remind them that they can move the annual and highly lucrative NASCAR All-Star event out of its traditional home at Charlotte Speedway to one of their other tracks.

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    So the list of possible expansion teams to be decide a couple from (we are told) by the end of 2017

    Charlotte

    Nashville

    Indy

    Detroit

    Phoenix

    St. Louis

    Raleigh/Durham

    San Antonio

    Sacramento

    Cincy

    Tampa

    San Diego

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    At this point, we won't see MLS immediately choose Tampa, San Antone, Raleigh/Durham, Phoenix or Nashville.

    Most ready to plug-and-play: Cinci, Sacramento.

    Most useful from a long-range corporate standpoint: Charlotte, Nashville - and franchises have to be granted in that order.

    On the charts with a bullet: San Diego.

    Potential for most fun: Tampa Bay (return of the Rowdies), Detroit

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    Plug and play is not what MLS needs/wants. I get the feeling they really don't care if a team/city has been doing well as much as whether they think a team/city can do well.

    Biggest thing is the owners, then the ability to expand the TV contract market

    I suspect its going to be St. Louis, San Antonio, Charlotte and Nashville.

    I gots me a theory why this is going to happen.

    Toronto saved MLS - TFC supporters actually saved MLS. Supporter culture wasn't created first by TFC supporters in MLS. But BMO was the first real case of a critical mass of supporter culture invading an MLS game and taking over how the game was followed at a stadium.

    Seattle has added its numbers and Portland has added its unique unified voice to the atmosphere. And now NYCFC, of all teams, is adding something uniquely urban and in your face.

    Atlanta is going to change things again. Yeah, I know, plastic pitch. But all indications are that the AU fans are a mix of SEC loving southern types with a WHOLE new batch of non-gridiron liking people who just want to support a team. There is a reason why they have been able to sell that many season tickets. Something is going to happen there (we've seen a prototype of this in Orlando) Atlanta is going to show how young diverse and millenial filled the south is. If, as I suspect, that those two stadiums in Atlanta and Orlando are loud raucous happening places, then the South is going to get a boost - and that's going to help Nashville and Charlotte.

    And if pro soccer takes off in the South East, the shackles are off the growth in this game in the US.


    Edit: if you want a model for this, look at Nashville in the NHL.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 01-31-2017 at 09:36 PM.

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    You got it, Pontiac. The southeast is a huge area to grow the game. But they have to get it done right the first time.

    Sad thing about Charlotte right now is how ugly the stadium debate is becoming along political and racial lines. Republicans are opposed. Amongst those in favour, there are factions who do not want the stadium built in a largely Hispanic and black district in east Charlotte.

    If one goes with conventional wisdom about building MLS stadiums in the city core, then that site loses out.

    But Charlotte is hardly a well-integrated city. When business took me there, it was astonishing to hear the 'N' word dropped so frequently, as casually as drawing breath, and always in derogatory terms by whites. The preferred stadium site is closer to downtown, but I can't see that middle-class white district being too thrilled about ethnic fans coming into their 'safe' neighbourhoods.
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 01-31-2017 at 10:13 PM.

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    Sacramento bid DOA


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    If the Sacto bid gets tied up in litigation, it's dunzo. Not sure Donnie Garbs was all that interested proceeding there anyway, had many opportunities to lock this down as a confirmed expansion slot.
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    That might be enough to put San Diego into things, although Xolos is a HUGE factor there. Going head to head with a Liga MX team...I just don't think that's a good idea.

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    I see the Sacramento bid is off to a great start. They've really gone out of their way to capture the spirit and culture of the city already.

    Hat's off to all involved.

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    Phoenix info today. Stadium renderings are ridiculous.

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/...n-team-9054666


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    Detroit would be great for away trips! Would bring in another close rival

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    Quote Originally Posted by SarniaTFC View Post
    Detroit would be great for away trips! Would bring in another close rival
    Detroit would be great for some away games, especially for me driving from London. I just don't know if there is enough support for a team to be viable in Detroit

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    Quote Originally Posted by pprzerac View Post
    Detroit would be great for some away games, especially for me driving from London. I just don't know if there is enough support for a team to be viable in Detroit
    Detroit City FC, in the very low NPSL, bring in over 5,000 passionate spectators to their games.

    I believe the support for an MLS side is there.
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    MLS struggles with TV ratings across the league. I know teams might look for tv ratings, but myself personally tv ratings might not be the main issue in creating a team that financially can survive. Sponsorships definitely are big part of creating a team. But what has carried TFC for example was bums in the seats + sponsors, while tv ratings have been a struggle. I think many clubs are the same. Is tv ratings in MLS the drive to creating a team in certain markets as much as we make it out to be? is it a huge issue if deciding where to move a new team to a city like st.louis, a new tv market vs Sacramento a team close to an already tv market in San Jose? Does San Jose tv market have much of tv market range outside of the immediate city? To me MLS is very much a regional market across the league for the most part.

    Also when deciding to move a team "x city" vs team "y city" have a major issue depending on how many other sports are already located in x city vs y city? Is college pro sports, NBA, MLB exc even competing for the same fans in MLS? My opinion for sure TFC need to compete for some Blue Jay Fans, Raptor fans, Leaf fans exc, but not as much as MLB, NBA and NHL fans compete for the same fans. To some degree I find MLS has more fans coming from a whole new untapped market, just like I think college sports teams are a bit of a different market from the big pro sport leagues in America. I find Leafs and blue Jays fans have more in common then Leafs and TFC do for example.
    Last edited by james; 02-11-2017 at 04:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by james View Post
    MLS struggles with TV ratings across the league. I know teams might look for tv ratings, but myself personally tv ratings might not be the main issue in creating a team that financially can survive. Sponsorships definitely are big part of creating a team. But what has carried TFC for example was bums in the seats + sponsors, while tv ratings have been a struggle. I think many clubs are the same. Is tv ratings in MLS the drive to creating a team in certain markets as much as we make it out to be? is it a huge issue if deciding where to move a new team to a city like st.louis, a new tv market vs Sacramento a team close to an already tv market in San Jose?.....

    The TV market is important in order to create a national following and to drive ratings on Fox and ESPN and the Spanish language networks.

    Which is why I think St. Louis, if they get a stadium, is a lock, as is one team in North Carolina.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The TV market is important in order to create a national following and to drive ratings on Fox and ESPN and the Spanish language networks.

    Which is why I think St. Louis, if they get a stadium, is a lock, as is one team in North Carolina.
    i know it's just when you look at TFC , a successful team, one of the biggest cities in the league, one of highest attendance in the league, and yet apparently very low tv ratings. Apparently things like bowling can get higher tv ratings then TFC at times. So the tv market in say st.louis, how important to ESPN is it if the ratings at times is so shit? How is that driving a national following when it appears to be such a regional market?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakTFC View Post
    Phoenix info today. Stadium renderings are ridiculous.

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/...n-team-9054666

    in middle of no where?

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    Quote Originally Posted by james View Post
    i know it's just when you look at TFC , a successful team, one of the biggest cities in the league, one of highest attendance in the league, and yet apparently very low tv ratings. Apparently things like bowling can get higher tv ratings then TFC at times. So the tv market in say st.louis, how important to ESPN is it if the ratings at times is so shit? How is that driving a national following when it appears to be such a regional market?
    This chart might help with understanding all this and why those markets are being looked at.


    http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

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    To add to this discussion, here's a map of the Atlanta TV area.



    That's a deep south strategy. Note the towns out of state they are including in the "get to see every Atlanta game" area.

    Atlanta wants to be THE team for the South. Do this right and that's a game changer.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-21-2017 at 11:15 AM.

 

 

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