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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    They also have to avoid December for their showcase game. Half the league would have had frozen conditions Saturday night, it was minus 10 in Chicago.

    The skill guys were all killed by it.
    I felt the reason why we needed to beat Montreal was because this could be the last chance we have at hosting the MLS cup, therefore never have the opportunity to play for the cup at home.

    I would believe that the league in the near future will change to a Superbowl model where you can only host in a Northern city if you have a domed stadium, otherwise you're playing in the Southern US.

    We were lucky to have this opportunity.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Uniformity for the sake of uniformity? Or uniformity for the sake of...

    Nobody likes penalties to win games. Nobody wants games to go to kicks. If you can do something to change that... why not make the change?

    An even numbered game series? That spells all types of disaster. Best of 1, 3, 5, 7. Not 2. You play sports to win games. With the aggregate system, that goes away. You dont play to win, lose, or tie, it's all about goal scoring. And worse, the insane notion that a goal there can be worth more than a goal here. I dont like it, and think we're in the position to say to the world - you've done things in a way that could have been changed and bettered for many years. You didn't. Shame on you. We will make changes.

    I appreciate you disagree... but any argument of keeping things the way the are simply for the sake of doing so doesn't advance humanity, and never has. The current system is flawed. Trying to fix it doesn't necessarily equate to "stupid shit". As is, pk's and aggregate goals are stupidity.

    edit: just think of it this way... if 2 game series and the aggregate rule never existed, wouldn't the reaction of hearing it as a suggestion be something along the lines of "what is this nonsense"???
    again, what if the world did not know about "shootouts". Wouldn't that seem like a gimmick and cause quite the backlash?
    After players play 90+ minutes it doesn't make any sense to start removing players after 10 minutes. Their legs would be destroyed having to cover the extra ground and it would greatly increase the chance of injury.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostKiller View Post
    After players play 90+ minutes it doesn't make any sense to start removing players after 10 minutes. Their legs would be destroyed having to cover the extra ground and it would greatly increase the chance of injury.
    What if there was a rule change for subs? After 90 mins, or after 120 mins? etc

    Also, once you start getting down to 8v8, 7v7, your likelihood of a goal being scored could naturally increase. If you have a fresh legged forward and a dead legged defender with minimal help due to a decreased number of players on the field, you're positioning the game to have a deciding goal.

    No system is going to be perfect. You want all games decided in regulation. When that cant happen, and rescheduling a second game is highly unlikely (but an interesting possibility), how would one go about making it as close to a real game as possible, while increasing the odds of getting a deciding goal? We've all played pickup 5v5, 6v6, etc. It's not a full team, but it's still soccer.
    Having a pk to decide a game is similar to having a competition who can bounce the ball on their head repeatedly the longest without it falling to the ground, or some type of 4x100 relay with soccer ball going between pylons. It's soccer related, a technical skill, but it's not a game of soccer.

  4. #94
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    I would have vastly preferred the shootout. This is the one thing MLS should have kept from the NASL. (I think iirc they had it for the first year or two)

    http://www.empireofsoccer.com/flashb...iplomats-6880/

    (This is also a good cautionary tale about how fragile success can be. Look at that crowd. Also check out who the last shooter was.)
    Last edited by ensco; 12-12-2016 at 12:28 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I would have vastly preferred the shootout. This is the one thing MLS should have kept from the NASL. (I think iirc they had it for the first year or two)

    http://www.empireofsoccer.com/flashb...iplomats-6880/
    Oh they did and to me it levels the playing field as opposed to PK's being so much in the favor of the shooter.


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    I don't know. I am just not for having a different iteration of the sport than the rest of the world. It's hard enough being taken seriously already and I want this league to sit well with soccer fans all over.

    You may think that it doesn't matter what people think, but it really does.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Did TFC already have a spot waiting in the trophy case beforehand? Looks like it. ( : I am pretty sure it was put it to inspire, walking by that empty case everyday makes the players want to fill it.
    Yes, that case was installed at the start of the year, there is also one for the Voyageurs Cup and one for the CCL.

  8. #98
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    funny thing was we had the golden goal for a few years and when this was scrapped back in 2004, most of the football federations in Europe welcomed it, they wanted 30 mins extra time followed by pk's brought back. I personally liked the golden goal, I felt it put an onus on teams to attack as they knew whoever scored first in extra time won the game. Not a perfect system by any means, but I think it helped negate one or even both teams playing out the 30 mins extra time to take their chance at pk's.'
    I'd even go one step further and allow each team to make an additional 2 more subs for this period. This would allow a couple of more attack minded players to be introduced to freshen things up.
    I've seen this debate come up every time a teams loses a big game to pk's though, imo nothing will change unfortunately

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    I preferred the golden goal. It was drama, but it was not so random.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    I felt the reason why we needed to beat Montreal was because this could be the last chance we have at hosting the MLS cup, therefore never have the opportunity to play for the cup at home.

    I would believe that the league in the near future will change to a Superbowl model where you can only host in a Northern city if you have a domed stadium, otherwise you're playing in the Southern US.

    We were lucky to have this opportunity.
    they had a neutral stadium as the final for years, even Toronto FC hosted the MLS Cup once as a neutral location. Only recent years has MLS decided to have 1 of the 2 teams in the final host it. Reason was when its a neutral location there often is little interest in the stadium, atmosphere rather poor as neither team has many fans attending, and ticket prices would most likely sell for lower prices and less interest in both clubs cities when neither team gets the intense atmosphere of hosting an event in front of its fans. I don't see them going back to that. Question could be would MLS ever consider having the MLS Cup over 2 legs? More tickets to sell and both sets of fans would get a taste of hosting 1 of the 2 legs in n front of its fans!

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    I preferred the golden goal. It was drama, but it was not so random.
    To this day, I can't conceive of a plausible argument against the golden goal.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soccer Mum View Post
    I don't know. I am just not for having a different iteration of the sport than the rest of the world. It's hard enough being taken seriously already and I want this league to sit well with soccer fans all over.

    You may think that it doesn't matter what people think, but it really does.
    i agree. Also if you keep changing rules in MLS it starts to look like the NHL hockey. They changed the rules so many times, and in the end it never really even changed the league for the better in my opinion, the league got worst. Sometimes you need to just stick to how things are and appreciate history.

    if there was anything to change the only thing I might consider is the away goal rule. It can create interesting sceneries but When Europe brought that away goal in I have always felt a little odd when 1st leg is 1-1 and second leg is 2-2 but yet a team advances, kind of feels weird winning that way, (tho I guess winning in penalties doesn't feel the greatest way to win either) I was so happy we beat Montreal on actual aggregate goals and not away goals!

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by james View Post
    they had a neutral stadium as the final for years, even Toronto FC hosted the MLS Cup once as a neutral location. Only recent years has MLS decided to have 1 of the 2 teams in the final host it. Reason was when its a neutral location there often is little interest in the stadium, atmosphere rather poor as neither team has many fans attending, and ticket prices would most likely sell for lower prices and less interest in both clubs cities when neither team gets the intense atmosphere of hosting an event in front of its fans. I don't see them going back to that. Question could be would MLS ever consider having the MLS Cup over 2 legs? More tickets to sell and both sets of fans would get a taste of hosting 1 of the 2 legs in n front of its fans!
    If I'm not mistaken, wasn't part of the benefit of being granted the right to most the MLS Cup (and all star game) due to investment (in a new stadium or new team in general)? Much the same in other sports, if you pump in money to create a new stadium, the league wants to showcase that on a big scale, so teams were granted all star games in those venues. Your points are valid in that the game is not at the level of fan interest in some neutral locations.

    As for the 2 legged final, see my other post on my thoughts of a home/home in any capacity. Even number just does not make sense.

    The question that needs to be asked is why would we do that? Why would we change? Your comments suggest the financial benefit. If it is to eliminate PK's as a way of settling a tie - then the 2 leg system doesn't do that (you could still end up at pk's at the end of the 2nd game. This goes the same if the suggestion is to reply the game - well how many times do you replay if they keep getting a tie? There's better answers to the PK shootout). The aggregate system in itself is so flawed from a psychological standpoint that I could never support it. Having an even-numbered series is such a noodle scratcher, which just by nature would force some type of tie-breaker potion to be invented and implemented.

    Is the 2 legged system perfect? Attractive? Is there a better option to think of?
    Is the PK shoot out perfect way to end a game? Is it desirable? Is there a better option to think of?
    Last edited by Globetrotter; 12-12-2016 at 02:19 PM.

  14. #104
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    As this might be hard to believe its only 42 days until players report for the start of the pre-season on January 23rd. The shortest off-season in TFC history. Pretty nice that we do not have to wait that long for it to all kickoff again.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  15. #105
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    Yeah, that's insane. A little over a month before we're back at it again.

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soccer Mum View Post
    I don't know. I am just not for having a different iteration of the sport than the rest of the world. It's hard enough being taken seriously already and I want this league to sit well with soccer fans all over.
    Quote Originally Posted by burlington Red View Post
    I've seen this debate come up every time a teams loses a big game to pk's though, imo nothing will change unfortunately
    Is it feasible that the rest of the world learn and grow instead of bunkering and saying "that's just the way it's been"?

    It comes up every time because it's such a flawed system. It's no longer a soccer game. It's one technical aspect of the game, not a game. If there's complaining about it, shouldn't the world over be screaming "why dont we fix this"????

    If I have a light fixture in my kitchen that is bright enough for me to see, not trip over stuff, but isn't really all that bright - the brain could say "well, it's technically functional and not broken", but couldn't the brain say "hey, there's something in place that isn't perfect, and the only thing that's stopping it from being what it could be is me. Maybe I can be the change, the one that sparks a brighter and happier outcome".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    As this might be hard to believe its only 42 days until players report for the start of the pre-season on January 23rd. The shortest off-season in TFC history. Pretty nice that we do not have to wait that long for it to all kickoff again.
    Nice thing is the team will more or less be the same. They know each other, less time to learn how to gel. Spring training can be more relaxed from a physical stand point. It is a nice advantage, and on field minutes can be played with accordingly through the entire Spring.

  18. #108
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    SHOW OUR SUPPORT:

    Is there going to be a turn out for the "LOCKER CLEAR OUT / MEDIA DAY" down at the stadium to show our support for a good season?
    Just a thought but might be nice?

  19. #109
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    Nothing needs to change except the game needs to be played earlier. As others have said - it's potentially cold in a lot of MLS cities at this time of year, including the prime New York market.

    And easy way to do that would back down from having so many teams make the playoffs (which will never happen).

    On the game itself - the quality was poor, the weather played a big role. But finals are usually cagey, dull affairs anyway.

    No way do they go back to a neutral site. The atmosphere is a big selling point for the MLS and a neutral site will kill that.

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    My vote would be for a hybrid of what they used to do in the UK AND the two leg system. Using this year's final as an example, we had the better record so the MLS Cup is held here. You play the game and if it's tied, it goes to extra time. If after 120 minutes it's still tied, the final score including extra time counts. At that point, Seattle parked the bus and they get their reward for success but NOT the Cup. We have a replay back in Seattle next week. If that game goes to extra time because it's tied then you play another 30 minutes of extra time. If after 120 minutes it's still tied, that's when away goals are considered. If it's still tied, both teams have had ample opportunity to settle it ... it goes to penalties. Eventually it has to end but penalties should be an absolute last resort and 120 minutes to me isn't a big enough excuse. I know a week is a short turn around but it's the MLS Cup Final ffs! ... If you get there you prepare for the fact that there might be a replay ... AND the league wins too. They get to have TWO finals.
    Last edited by buddies; 12-12-2016 at 06:04 PM.

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    A March to December season is ridiculous. Late March to Mid-November would be alright.

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    First of all, I don't think MLS can change anything on it's own. It's already seen as too much of a Mickey Mouse league around the world. MLS changing the finals format on their own would make it even harder to sign quality international players, or to generally be taken seriously.

    I think shootouts are fun -- but also silly & gimmicky. And man were the players pretty bad back then!

    Extended overtime with more subs & Golden Goal are perhaps a good option. But consider that players are already seriously exhausted by then. Injuries, general fatigue, and crappy play are likely. Plus no guarantee it works out well: I remember watching the Massachusetts high school state finals in the early 80s. Instead of PKs, they used a system like this. I believe more subs were allowed anyway, plus endless sudden-death OT. Well, nobody else scored for HOURS! The game went on & on & on. This was late November, so it was getting extremely late & cold. (I was there with my dad, watching the game.) I don't think they really had a rule in place for this situation. Eventually they halted the game, and continued with more overtime another day. In that case, even PKs would be better.

    Yes the season needs to be finished earlier. There are a couple of ways to do that. One way: relax the roster restrictions a bit more, making it easier to have two games a week.

    BTW Superbowl at a neutral venue is not a good comparison. Superbowl is such a big deal, it would sell out if they held it in Anchorage. MLS Cup in a neutral city could be pretty lame. Plus hosting at the higher seed really increases the value of all the regular season games & results.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 12-12-2016 at 06:45 PM.

  23. #113
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    Btw..Pre season starts jan 23rd...lol...rest up boys!!! We go some unfinished buis to take of starting in March!

  24. #114
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    This would never fly, but it's an interesting idea:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/...xtra_time.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post

    I do have one beef though....Seattle's buildings were green in their support for their team. Even NY had buildings green and red for MLS Cup support or so MLS says. When I was driving in our CN tower was friggin' BLUE. What the hell? Jays or Leafs playing in a playoff? I think that was the difference in the game. Got to be honest. Nice going to whoever controls that shit.
    It was all red post (and during?)game .

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redpunkfiddle View Post
    It was all red post (and during?)game .
    We got off the bus at Strachan & King & walked to BMO before the game. The tower was all red at the time.

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by greekasm View Post
    This would never fly, but it's an interesting idea:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/...xtra_time.html
    Thats absolutely brilliant!!!

  28. #118
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    Very happy to have these as a momento of the Reds 2016 playoff run.


    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    We got off the bus at Strachan & King & walked to BMO before the game. The tower was all red at the time.
    I got to BMO around 6pm, can confirm it was Blue for most of 20 minutes? Maybe for the Leafs?
    Play-by-Play Commentator for League 1 Ontario.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, wasn't part of the benefit of being granted the right to most the MLS Cup (and all star game) due to investment (in a new stadium or new team in general)? Much the same in other sports, if you pump in money to create a new stadium, the league wants to showcase that on a big scale, so teams were granted all star games in those venues. Your points are valid in that the game is not at the level of fan interest in some neutral locations.

    As for the 2 legged final, see my other post on my thoughts of a home/home in any capacity. Even number just does not make sense.

    The question that needs to be asked is why would we do that? Why would we change? Your comments suggest the financial benefit. If it is to eliminate PK's as a way of settling a tie - then the 2 leg system doesn't do that (you could still end up at pk's at the end of the 2nd game. This goes the same if the suggestion is to reply the game - well how many times do you replay if they keep getting a tie? There's better answers to the PK shootout). The aggregate system in itself is so flawed from a psychological standpoint that I could never support it. Having an even-numbered series is such a noodle scratcher, which just by nature would force some type of tie-breaker potion to be invented and implemented.

    Is the 2 legged system perfect? Attractive? Is there a better option to think of?
    Is the PK shoot out perfect way to end a game? Is it desirable? Is there a better option to think of?
    one game playoffs end like what we just saw, even berst of 3 end up low scoring
    Aggregate was meant to stimulate goal production

 

 

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